Turtle 911 NOW NOW NOW

Moozillion

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I woke up and had a brainstorm about improving Jacques' recovery.
I know that when the brain is exposed to trauma it swells. The trauma can be from a blow or from low oxygen (hypoxia) as occurs in a near-drowning. When humans have be resuscitated from a near-drowning event, they are often put on steroids and other medications to reduce brain swelling.
Markw84 posted some very interesting information on water hardness and osmosis affecting the animals in the water. If the water is very soft, they absorb water and if the water is hard they don't absorb water (this is a super basic summary, if I've got it right).
I can't take Jacques to a hospital for steroids or other meds to reduce brain swelling, but I CAN increase the water hardness in her tank! I know my KW and GW are ZERO. If I increase the hardness even a little bit, it seems like it's bound to help.

I can use a combination of Calcium chloride, Epsom salts, baking soda and salt substitute (potassium chloride instead of sodium chloride). I have a book on The Ecology of the Planted Aquarium that gives dilutions and amounts of working solution to SLOWLY raise the KH.
Apparently I can also just use crushed seashells or oyster grit (the kind fed to chickens) from a local feed store.

I'm very excited about this idea. But I'm waiting until one of the several "Water Turtle Guys" checks in to give their opinion on this!

@Anthony P @cdmay @Markw84 @Baoh @mark1 and anybody else who has experience with water turtles and near-drowning.
 

Moozillion

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Just tested the quality parameters of Jacques' tank.

pH is 8.0
Ammonia and Nitrite are both ZERO
Nitrates are 20 ppm (YAAAAAAYYYYY!!!!)
KH is 100-200 ppm

I am thrilled with my parameters, but color me confused about the KH. My previous KH tested at ZERO. Since then, I've done a partial water change, removed almost all the sand (very small amounts remain), added 10 ghost shrimp along with the water from the bag they were in from Pet Smart, added a bunch of plastic plants and 2 pieces of mopani wood. Removing the sand stirred up a WHOLE BUNCH of gunk that was down in the sand, so I wonder if that contributed to the increase in KH?
I think my parameters are good enough that I should leave well enough alone?
I'll test weekly and do partial water changes either weekly or every 2 weeks, depending on how Jacques and the shrimp are looking.
Feeling better, at least for now!!!!
And CONTINUED thanks to everyone who has offered suggestions. :<3:
 

Markw84

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Just tested the quality parameters of Jacques' tank.

pH is 8.0
Ammonia and Nitrite are both ZERO
Nitrates are 20 ppm (YAAAAAAYYYYY!!!!)
KH is 100-200 ppm

I am thrilled with my parameters, but color me confused about the KH. My previous KH tested at ZERO. Since then, I've done a partial water change, removed almost all the sand (very small amounts remain), added 10 ghost shrimp along with the water from the bag they were in from Pet Smart, added a bunch of plastic plants and 2 pieces of mopani wood. Removing the sand stirred up a WHOLE BUNCH of gunk that was down in the sand, so I wonder if that contributed to the increase in KH?
I think my parameters are good enough that I should leave well enough alone?
I'll test weekly and do partial water changes either weekly or every 2 weeks, depending on how Jacques and the shrimp are looking.
Feeling better, at least for now!!!!
And CONTINUED thanks to everyone who has offered suggestions. :<3:
Great water test!!!

Nothing to adjust there.

The sand could have contributed. If you have municipal water, they sometimes change water sources through various times of the year, switching from reservoir to well.
 

Moozillion

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Great water test!!!

Nothing to adjust there.

The sand could have contributed. If you have municipal water, they sometimes change water sources through various times of the year, switching from reservoir to well.
Thank you!!!! :):):)
 

Moozillion

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And now, we wait.

Jacques' near-drowning incident was on 12/8, and it's now 8 days later.
I've made all the changes that more knowledgable and experienced turtle keepers have recommended. Based on her behaviors, I'm sure she's had some hypoxic brain injury. She moves, but not nearly as much as she did before the incident. She mainly sits in one position for hours at a time, reaching up to breathe when she needs to. She has not eaten anything yet. The ghost shrimp swim right by her face and she may turn an eye a bit to look at them, but makes no other movement.
I'll keep her warm, keep the water parameters good and offer her food every other day and watch for any changes.
If she makes it, she makes it. If she doesn't, she doesn't. The final outcome is sometimes set long before the end, despite what we do.

So now, we wait. (Come on, Jacques...)
 

Destben

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And now, we wait.

Jacques' near-drowning incident was on 12/8, and it's now 8 days later.
I've made all the changes that more knowledgable and experienced turtle keepers have recommended. Based on her behaviors, I'm sure she's had some hypoxic brain injury. She moves, but not nearly as much as she did before the incident. She mainly sits in one position for hours at a time, reaching up to breathe when she needs to. She has not eaten anything yet. The ghost shrimp swim right by her face and she may turn an eye a bit to look at them, but makes no other movement.
I'll keep her warm, keep the water parameters good and offer her food every other day and watch for any changes.
If she makes it, she makes it. If she doesn't, she doesn't. The final outcome is sometimes set long before the end, despite what we do.

So now, we wait. (Come on, Jacques...)

Prayers for Jacques
 

Melis

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Update on Jacques.
She appears to be improving in most areas. She prowls around all through her tank from one end to the other and is not acting as scared as she had been. She spends time in one of her favorite caves. She quite easily reaches up to the surface to breathe. She is NOT gaping her mouth or appearing to struggle to breathe, isn't blowing bubbles and doesn't float or swim lopsided. :)
BUT she's still not hungry at all. The accident occurred on the 8th and today is the 12th. Although she readily comes up to the front of the tank and watches us, she does NOT do her "feed me!" dance at all. I've dropped tiny bits of food in for her: she sees them, she may sniff at them, but she turns and toddles off. :( I've tried salmon (her FAVORITE), catfish and even the turtle kibbles she was raised on as a little thing. No luck.

I know turtles can go a whole lot longer without eating than we can. I know she has willingly gone without food for 4 days before: I had been feeding her only fresh sushi grade salmon for about a week. When I switched back to her usual catfish, she took offense and boycotted all food! After the 4th day, she gave in.
I'm not REALLY all that worried just yet, but I will feel better once she starts eating again.
I can't really talk about this to anyone but the people on the forum, because non-turtle folks just don't get it. Because I was upset, I told one friend about it the day of the accident and she giggled- she thought doing CPR on a turtle sounded funny. She's not a mean person at all, she's just not one of US! ;)
Thanks for listening.
I really do think she's on the mend- she's just not there yet.
I'm not hovering AS much as I was, so I'm improving as well! :rolleyes:
I often ponder on the different thinking of different people. I had very similar experiences with my friends who all thought I was crazy for the amount of money and time I invested on getting a feeding tube surgically placed in my tort. To me, it was a no brainer to do something that could possibly save a life that had been a part of my family for 10 years. Others didn't see it that way. I too, am glad to have stumbled upon this forum of like minded people
 

Moozillion

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I often ponder on the different thinking of different people. I had very similar experiences with my friends who all thought I was crazy for the amount of money and time I invested on getting a feeding tube surgically placed in my tort. To me, it was a no brainer to do something that could possibly save a life that had been a part of my family for 10 years. Others didn't see it that way. I too, am glad to have stumbled upon this forum of like minded people
Glad to have you as a member of this wonderful group of crazies!!!!! ;)

One of my favorite quotes about people like us:
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." -Nietzche
 

Moozillion

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Hoping Dear Jacques is doing ok!

Sending long distance good vibes.

Thank you so much! [emoji2]
I think your good vibes are working: although she’s not eating yet, yesterday and today she has appeared much more alert and has definitely been more active!
 

KevinGG

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My first reaction was a scoff. Another emergency thread for a non-emergency? Then I saw it was you and I felt so sad. There are a few different people on the forum, mainly the people who keep dozens of turtles and those that keep one. I have a soft spot for the latter, and especially you and Jacques. As I read, I was thinking of how I could send you one of my babies if anything went wrong. Well, I’m very glad everything is working out. You are a great owner. :)

P.S.: As all of those who make up the former group have shared, I’ve also lost turtles to drowning. I put down one of my first turtles because I didn’t have the knowledge or experience (or forum) to act as you did. Great job mooz
 

Moozillion

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My first reaction was a scoff. Another emergency thread for a non-emergency? Then I saw it was you and I felt so sad. There are a few different people on the forum, mainly the people who keep dozens of turtles and those that keep one. I have a soft spot for the latter, and especially you and Jacques. As I read, I was thinking of how I could send you one of my babies if anything went wrong. Well, I’m very glad everything is working out. You are a great owner. :)

P.S.: As all of those who make up the former group have shared, I’ve also lost turtles to drowning. I put down one of my first turtles because I didn’t have the knowledge or experience (or forum) to act as you did. Great job mooz

Oh, MY!!! [emoji2][emoji173]️[emoji173]️[emoji173]️
Thank you so much, Kevin!!!!
 

Moozillion

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My first reaction was a scoff. Another emergency thread for a non-emergency? Then I saw it was you and I felt so sad. There are a few different people on the forum, mainly the people who keep dozens of turtles and those that keep one. I have a soft spot for the latter, and especially you and Jacques. As I read, I was thinking of how I could send you one of my babies if anything went wrong. Well, I’m very glad everything is working out. You are a great owner. :)

P.S.: As all of those who make up the former group have shared, I’ve also lost turtles to drowning. I put down one of my first turtles because I didn’t have the knowledge or experience (or forum) to act as you did. Great job mooz

You are so, SO kind to think of sending me one if your turtles if things went badly with Jacques! [emoji2][emoji173]️[emoji173]️[emoji173]️
 

Tidgy's Dad

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My first reaction was a scoff. Another emergency thread for a non-emergency? Then I saw it was you and I felt so sad. There are a few different people on the forum, mainly the people who keep dozens of turtles and those that keep one. I have a soft spot for the latter, and especially you and Jacques. As I read, I was thinking of how I could send you one of my babies if anything went wrong. Well, I’m very glad everything is working out. You are a great owner. :)

P.S.: As all of those who make up the former group have shared, I’ve also lost turtles to drowning. I put down one of my first turtles because I didn’t have the knowledge or experience (or forum) to act as you did. Great job mooz
What a lovely thing to say! :<3::)
 
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