VitaShell...i'm saying...YES

[Meg90]

my point is this debate is pointless. I'm sure there are more important things.

way to contribute. in the debate forum no less. thumbs up

What is with all the new members here attacking the longstanding (and more knowledgeable) members?

Yes, this is the debate forums. But if someone wants to remove themselves FROM the debate, it is their right.

You are new here, Loogielv. You asked for advice, and chose to go against what several others are saying, and use the product anyways. That is your prerogative. You, on the other hand, have no reason to instigate an argument. I took your last comment as offensive, and firestarting, and I am not even its target.

I think as a new member, you need to take a step back. I am getting irritated of all the newbies coming in, determined to harsh the mellow of the nice community that myself, and others here had pre-formed.

Please take all the negativity somewhere else.

 

[loogielv]

LOL painted tortoise nails, that I would like to see haha, is vitashell a liquid? If so could you not put in the torts basking water? Just a thought since I dont use it I can say one way or the other to it effects.

It is a cream I believe; sold in a small plastic jar.

right. it's a cream. I wouldn't even consider putting anything in the water of an animal though. too many things to worry about. drinking and such.

What is with all the new members here attacking the longstanding (and more knowledgeable) members?

Yes, this is the debate forums. But if someone wants to remove themselves FROM the debate, it is their right.

You are new here, Loogielv. You asked for advice, and chose to go against what several others are saying, and use the product anyways. That is your prerogative. You, on the other hand, have no reason to instigate an argument. I took your last comment as offensive, and firestarting, and I am not even its target.

I think as a new member, you need to take a step back. I am getting irritated of all the newbies coming in, determined to harsh the mellow of the nice community that myself, and others here had pre-formed.

Please take all the negativity somewhere else.

I didn't mean to disrespect MillerLite, a "longstanding member" of 4 months with a whopping 100 posts. who came into the "debate" forum and into my thread which was setup as a debate, and expressed how he is...how did you put it? "more knowledgeable" by throwing a hissy fit and saying there are more important things. If you feel that way, congrats, dont worry about this thread and move along. I in no way offended anyone, attacked anyone, nor claimed my side of the argument as the 100% right side. I honestly, with all of my heart, set this topic up as a debate, and if there are valid points, then I will listen and flop.

If you got nothing, then dammit you got nothing. It's not my fault. If you hate this thread, why the h*** post in it? I wasn't calling anyone out or doing anything other than setting up a debate so i could see valid, proof positive points.

so far i've gotten "some people use it. some dont" and "there are more important things. this debate is pointless" and then i'm the jerk? whatever.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Hey settle down and watch the language! That's seriously bad...

 

[Meg90]

I didn't mean to disrespect MillerLite, a "longstanding member" of 4 months with a whopping 100 posts. who came into the "debate" forum and into my thread which was setup as a debate, and expressed how he is...how did you put it? "more knowledgeable" by throwing a hissy fit and saying there are more important things. If you feel that way, congrats, dont worry about this thread and move along. I in no way offended anyone, attacked anyone, nor claimed my side of the argument as the 100% right side. I honestly, with all of my heart, set this topic up as a debate, and if there are valid points, then I will listen and flop.

If you got nothing, then dammit you got nothing. It's not my fault. If you hate this thread, why the h*** post in it? I wasn't calling anyone out or doing anything other than setting up a debate so i could see valid, proof positive points.

so far i've gotten "some people use it. some dont" and "there are more important things. this debate is pointless" and then i'm the jerk? whatever.

I'll repeat it, please take the negativity SOMEWHERE ELSE.

You are disruptive, and aggressive. Why take the time to look up another members stats and then humiliate them with them?

Not to drop right down to your level, but you only have 10 posts to your name and have been a member for a WEEK.

So once again, step back. Yes, this is your thread. To a point. You cannot bash other members, and attack those defending them. Want to look at my posting record? I see you didn't bother, because it says I am a senior member.

The maturity level needs to go up ASAP. What you are doing is hurtful, disruptive, and aggravating. And it should not be tolerated.

 

[Yvonne G]

When you post in "debatable topics" you are supposed to promote your side of the debate. Please DO NOT denigrate the folks who have an opposing view. It doesn't say so in my profile, but I AM a moderator, and I'm telling ALL OF YOU, that is enough. If you have something to say pro or con about Vita Shell, then let's hear it, but keep personal thoughts or accusations out of the debate.

Yvonne

 

[Millerlite]

I'm pretty new to this forum, but i been on other forums before i even found this one, TT i been on for ever, i knew a lot of the people on this site before i even came on this site. There are a lot of people saying one person is wrong over another, i say just say your side of what you think is right, and not say anyone is wrong for using this product. Only reason i said this debate is pointless is because the guy above me said whats my point and i just replied that, didnt even mean anything by it really. People are keep saying the person is bad for using it blah blah, when really like i said before people are using it without long term effect, yes people list what effects are possible, but if someone is not using that much and use it every now and then is it %100 wrong, i dont think it is. Oh i use to read this forum a lot, and never did register, i always read, and talked to people on TT, then finally registered here.

PS: i'm not mad at anyone, i dont really get mad, and really dont judge anyone from one post to the next, we all give valuable information and thats whats nice about fourms.

 

[tortelini]

nrfichett4-I never drink diet but I can't say that I don't use products that are unhealthy or have that potential, but I try keep it to the minimum. For my children and pets I try even harder as they don't have a lot of choice what they put in or on their bodies.

This is a debate....obviously! I have my side (not to use it), my opinions needed to be backed up(i.e. the info on the ingredients) To be honest, I don't care what you feed your tort, yourself or your family. I choose to give my family and my pets the healthiest of lives...this is my choice and my opinion. If the debate was about using Botox to make one look younger, my point would still be valid. Sure you might look better, chances are you won't die, but it isn't healthy for you so why do it??And more importantly, would you use it on someone who has no choice in the matter??? I like a good debate, I like to see things from other people's sides. Sometimes, I change my views and sometimes I don't ....I won't and didn't say it will kill your tort if you use it! I gave my debate and my reasons. I gave evidence that it probably isn't the healthiest thing to use on your tort. If the other side of the debate had proof that it is such a great product, then I would look at it with an open mind and make a decision based upon that. That's the fun of a debate....making a point, having someone else put down evidence that refutes it and so on. So far the potential bad outweighs the potential good....Does that mean I am winning

Oh wait, my husband says no one wins in a debate...

 

[loogielv]

I didn't mean to disrespect MillerLite, a "longstanding member" of 4 months with a whopping 100 posts. who came into the "debate" forum and into my thread which was setup as a debate, and expressed how he is...how did you put it? "more knowledgeable" by throwing a hissy fit and saying there are more important things. If you feel that way, congrats, dont worry about this thread and move along. I in no way offended anyone, attacked anyone, nor claimed my side of the argument as the 100% right side. I honestly, with all of my heart, set this topic up as a debate, and if there are valid points, then I will listen and flop.

If you got nothing, then dammit you got nothing. It's not my fault. If you hate this thread, why the h*** post in it? I wasn't calling anyone out or doing anything other than setting up a debate so i could see valid, proof positive points.

so far i've gotten "some people use it. some dont" and "there are more important things. this debate is pointless" and then i'm the jerk? whatever.

I'll repeat it, please take the negativity SOMEWHERE ELSE.

You are disruptive, and aggressive. Why take the time to look up another members stats and then humiliate them with them?

Not to drop right down to your level, but you only have 10 posts to your name and have been a member for a WEEK.

So once again, step back. Yes, this is your thread. To a point. You cannot bash other members, and attack those defending them. Want to look at my posting record? I see you didn't bother, because it says I am a senior member.

The maturity level needs to go up ASAP. What you are doing is hurtful, disruptive, and aggravating. And it should not be tolerated.

"looking up" your stats is as simple as looking to the right of your name. you have 200 more posts then the other "longstanding" member. anyway, since you're bring nothing to the table, i'll just assume you have nothing to offer in this thead. moving on.

---

When you post in "debatable topics" you are supposed to promote your side of the debate. Please DO NOT denigrate the folks who have an opposing view. It doesn't say so in my profile, but I AM a moderator, and I'm telling ALL OF YOU, that is enough. If you have something to say pro or con about Vita Shell, then let's hear it, but keep personal thoughts or accusations out of the debate.

Yvonne

thank you emy. I appreciate you keeping this on track. it was my only goal: debating vitashell.

thank you again!

---

nrfichett4-I never drink diet but I can't say that I don't use products that are unhealthy or have that potential, but I try keep it to the minimum. For my children and pets I try even harder as they don't have a lot of choice what they put in or on their bodies.

This is a debate....obviously! I have my side (not to use it), my opinions needed to be backed up(i.e. the info on the ingredients) To be honest, I don't care what you feed your tort, yourself or your family. I choose to give my family and my pets the healthiest of lives...this is my choice and my opinion. If the debate was about using Botox to make one look younger, my point would still be valid. Sure you might look better, chances are you won't die, but it isn't healthy for you so why do it??And more importantly, would you use it on someone who has no choice in the matter??? I like a good debate, I like to see things from other people's sides. Sometimes, I change my views and sometimes I don't ....I won't and didn't say it will kill your tort if you use it! I gave my debate and my reasons. I gave evidence that it probably isn't the healthiest thing to use on your tort. If the other side of the debate had proof that it is such a great product, then I would look at it with an open mind and make a decision based upon that. That's the fun of a debate....making a point, having someone else put down evidence that refutes it and so on. So far the potential bad outweighs the potential good....Does that mean I am winning

Oh wait, my husband says no one wins in a debate...

your husband is very smart...and from the sounds of it, lucky too! thank you for understanding that I have no intention other than a good debate. I appreciate it

 

[Meg90]

I've decided that after such rude prodding, I will share my opinion and say that I would NOT use vita-shell.

I had considered it when I first got my greek. He has a bit of old damage on the top coastal scutes on one side, and I thought that slathering on some "conditioner" would help him heal. I did my reasearch first however, and asked around on this site, and another before I even purchased it. I was advised not to use it, and as a newbie to tortoises, I did as I was advised.

Now, here are my reasons for CONTINUING not to use it:

1. Its unnatural. In the wild, when Tortoises get shell damage or dry skin, they do not go to petsmart and buy a jar of vita-shell. They heal on their own.

2. A sign of a healthy tortoise, is a smooth dry, scentless shell. Why put a completely man made product on them, and introduce chemicals?

3. Also, the shell is covered in nerve endings. Anyone who has ever silently brushed their fingers over their sleeping tortoise will know this. Nigel wakes up quickly when i do this, and otherwise always knows when his shell is being touched. Why layer cream over the nerve endings? It would be like always wearing a glove on your hand, and never really FEELING anything.

4. Another reason I will never use it, is because I have seen its effects. I rescued a hingeback tortoise from a petshop that must have been applying it daily to her, and her shell was slick and oily to the touch. The product was so think in some points, it looked like rot. It could be scraped away with a fingernail. This "treatment" of her dry shell stunted her growth, and subsequently deformed her. She will now never reach adult size.

The petshop didn't know they were doing anything wrong. They thought they were helping her, because the vita-shell was MADE for tortoises.

In my opinion, its just a load of junk in a jar. Its another gimmick to sell money, because tortoises don't need many products that petshops sell. I personally would expect it to be peddled along with glass aquariums and wood-chip bedding to the new tortoise owner.

That is why I do not use it.

 

[Madkins007]

My 'take' on this is that a lot of commercial products, even tortoise stuff, is a waste of money. What is the real benefit of VitaShell, and is it anything that cannot be done in another way?

This is basically a hand lotion. The ingredients are consistent with many lotions and home-made recipes. So, what does hand lotion do? It moisturizes the top layer or two of dead skin and makes a seal against water getting out, or some germs, etc. getting in. All of the benefits are on the top layers. It cannot 'feed' the dead tissue- adding vitamin E or other vitamins in lotion is a waste of money.

They say it "helps revitalize dry, brittle shells and skin" (from ad copy)- doesn't this mean that the tortoise is dehydrated or in too low humidity? "Revitalize" is not the same as 'cure' or even 'treat'. Basically, it pastes flaky skin together and 'plumps up' dry tissue- temporarily.

I don't see anything here that I cannot do with a dab of baby lotion, or even baby oil applied very sparingly (a drop will go a long way).

My verdict is that it is probably not harmful, but basically worthless.

 

[nrfitchett4]

my point is this debate is pointless. I'm sure there are more important things.

way to contribute. in the debate forum no less. thumbs up

What is with all the new members here attacking the longstanding (and more knowledgeable) members?

Yes, this is the debate forums. But if someone wants to remove themselves FROM the debate, it is their right.

You are new here, Loogielv. You asked for advice, and chose to go against what several others are saying, and use the product anyways. That is your prerogative. You, on the other hand, have no reason to instigate an argument. I took your last comment as offensive, and firestarting, and I am not even its target.

I think as a new member, you need to take a step back. I am getting irritated of all the newbies coming in, determined to harsh the mellow of the nice community that myself, and others here had pre-formed.

Please take all the negativity somewhere else.

I didn't mean to disrespect MillerLite, a "longstanding member" of 4 months with a whopping 100 posts. who came into the "debate" forum and into my thread which was setup as a debate, and expressed how he is...how did you put it? "more knowledgeable" by throwing a hissy fit and saying there are more important things. If you feel that way, congrats, dont worry about this thread and move along. I in no way offended anyone, attacked anyone, nor claimed my side of the argument as the 100% right side. I honestly, with all of my heart, set this topic up as a debate, and if there are valid points, then I will listen and flop.

If you got nothing, then dammit you got nothing. It's not my fault. If you hate this thread, why the hell post in it? I wasn't calling anyone out or doing anything other than setting up a debate so i could see valid, proof positive points.

so far i've gotten "some people use it. some dont" and "there are more important things. this debate is pointless" and then i'm the jerk? whatever.

I'll repeat it, please take the negativity SOMEWHERE ELSE.

You are disruptive, and aggressive. Why take the time to look up another members stats and then humiliate them with them?

Not to drop right down to your level, but you only have 10 posts to your name and have been a member for a WEEK.

So once again, step back. Yes, this is your thread. To a point. You cannot bash other members, and attack those defending them. Want to look at my posting record? I see you didn't bother, because it says I am a senior member.

The maturity level needs to go up ASAP. What you are doing is hurtful, disruptive, and aggravating. And it should not be tolerated.

---

nrfichett4-I never drink diet but I can't say that I don't use products that are unhealthy or have that potential, but I try keep it to the minimum. For my children and pets I try even harder as they don't have a lot of choice what they put in or on their bodies.

This is a debate....obviously! I have my side (not to use it), my opinions needed to be backed up(i.e. the info on the ingredients) To be honest, I don't care what you feed your tort, yourself or your family. I choose to give my family and my pets the healthiest of lives...this is my choice and my opinion. If the debate was about using Botox to make one look younger, my point would still be valid. Sure you might look better, chances are you won't die, but it isn't healthy for you so why do it??And more importantly, would you use it on someone who has no choice in the matter??? I like a good debate, I like to see things from other people's sides. Sometimes, I change my views and sometimes I don't ....I won't and didn't say it will kill your tort if you use it! I gave my debate and my reasons. I gave evidence that it probably isn't the healthiest thing to use on your tort. If the other side of the debate had proof that it is such a great product, then I would look at it with an open mind and make a decision based upon that. That's the fun of a debate....making a point, having someone else put down evidence that refutes it and so on. So far the potential bad outweighs the potential good....Does that mean I am winning

Oh wait, my husband says no one wins in a debate...

I would never use it personally, so you win!!!

 

[loogielv]

I've decided that after such rude prodding, I will share my opinion and say that I would NOT use vita-shell.

I had considered it when I first got my greek. He has a bit of old damage on the top coastal scutes on one side, and I thought that slathering on some "conditioner" would help him heal. I did my reasearch first however, and asked around on this site, and another before I even purchased it. I was advised not to use it, and as a newbie to tortoises, I did as I was advised.

Now, here are my reasons for CONTINUING not to use it:

1. Its unnatural. In the wild, when Tortoises get shell damage or dry skin, they do not go to petsmart and buy a jar of vita-shell. They heal on their own.

2. A sign of a healthy tortoise, is a smooth dry, scentless shell. Why put a completely man made product on them, and introduce chemicals?

3. Also, the shell is covered in nerve endings. Anyone who has ever silently brushed their fingers over their sleeping tortoise will know this. Nigel wakes up quickly when i do this, and otherwise always knows when his shell is being touched. Why layer cream over the nerve endings? It would be like always wearing a glove on your hand, and never really FEELING anything.

4. Another reason I will never use it, is because I have seen its effects. I rescued a hingeback tortoise from a petshop that must have been applying it daily to her, and her shell was slick and oily to the touch. The product was so think in some points, it looked like rot. It could be scraped away with a fingernail. This "treatment" of her dry shell stunted her growth, and subsequently deformed her. She will now never reach adult size.

The petshop didn't know they were doing anything wrong. They thought they were helping her, because the vita-shell was MADE for tortoises.

In my opinion, its just a load of junk in a jar. Its another gimmick to sell money, because tortoises don't need many products that petshops sell. I personally would expect it to be peddled along with glass aquariums and wood-chip bedding to the new tortoise owner.

That is why I do not use it.

there is alot of posts after this one that i want to reply to, but i wanted to reply to this one specifically. I think this post is brilliant. your arguments are completely sound and worded in a way that I truly respect. I am really pleased that you did decide to chime in, because it is one of the most intelligent responses I've had the pleasure of coming up against. I truly mean it.

Having said that, I ask you to follow up on the petshop issue of the tort with the layers of slime. Do you feel that the petshop was just layering it on and just leaving it and never washing it? I can't fathom any reason why it would layer on and cake up like that, unless the people were just leaving it on, after slathering it up. Do you think that's what happened?

Of course with all due respect, I would still argue back that I overcame your objections in my original post, but honestly, I'd feel guilty. Your points were just so eloquent and precise that my bluntness and crowbar type of debating would not do them justice. I am truly humbled by your replies.

 

[Crazy1]

At this time I am locking this thread until the sarcasm and down right nastyness stops. It is reviewed my other Mods and then at that time it may be reopened.