Guilt over husbandry error

[jtpetdad]

Hello everybody, apologies for the long post

Meet my little guy. We’re in Florida, and I’ve had him for almost 4 years. I’ve always tried to prioritize giving him the best life possible—large enclosures, proper heat gradients, humidity, calcium supplementation, safe foods, and supervised outdoor roaming.

Over a month ago I took him to the vet for his first visit, originally just for a beak trim. Since it was our first appointment, I opted for a full wellness exam. Thankfully, he’s never shown signs of illness and has always been active, eating and behaving normally.

During the visit, I learned that the “all-in-one” basking bulbs I’ve been using for years provide heat and UVA, but essentially no UVB. I was devastated to realize I had misunderstood this for so long.

The vet was reassuring. Bloodwork, fecal testing, and X-rays all came back normal. His heart sounded good, and overall she felt he looked healthy, though she noted he was “a little flat” and that his bone density was only mediocre. We immediately made a plan to correct the UVB issue and continue proper calcium supplementation. She felt confident enough to simply recheck him in a year. She did not at any point say MBD although I unfortunately think it is inevitably obvious at this point. I feel she may have been a bit cautious on how she worded things given my anxiety level but I am debating getting a second opinion.

Since then, I’ve installed a 48" ReptiSun 10.0 UVB tube, returned to daily calcium supplementation, increased soaking frequency, and plan to maximize safe outdoor sunlight exposure. I also had the vet test the UVB output checked to ensure it’s providing proper coverage through the mesh top.

My boy remains active, eats well, poops normally, walks strongly with his body off the ground, and seems happy and interactive. He truly shows absolutely no signs of illness other than the deformities in his shell (it slightly sinks inward in the back two corners)

I know I can’t change the past, but I’m grateful this routine vet visit revealed the issue before it became something much worse. I’ve thrown myself back into learning everything I can and want to make sure I’m doing the best possible job going forward.

What else can I do to support his health? And for those who have made husbandry mistakes in the past, how do you move past the guilt and stop feeling like a failure?

Picture of his enclosure for context
View attachment 401667

 

[Fluffy]

Do you have an outdoor enclosure he uses? If he is getting proper outside time in natural sun you don't need to worry much about UVB lights.

 

[jtpetdad]

Do you have an outdoor enclosure he uses? If he is getting proper outside time in natural sun you don't need to worry much about UVB lights.

He roams my backyard freely for hours with monitoring. It’s all fenced in. I do not have a proper outside enclosure no, we’re in for dis and while the temperature probably would work I’m concerned about bugs and smaller animals getting into the enclosure.

 

[zovick]

Hello everybody, apologies for the long post

Meet my little guy. We’re in Florida, and I’ve had him for almost 4 years. I’ve always tried to prioritize giving him the best life possible—large enclosures, proper heat gradients, humidity, calcium supplementation, safe foods, and supervised outdoor roaming.

Over a month ago I took him to the vet for his first visit, originally just for a beak trim. Since it was our first appointment, I opted for a full wellness exam. Thankfully, he’s never shown signs of illness and has always been active, eating and behaving normally.

During the visit, I learned that the “all-in-one” basking bulbs I’ve been using for years provide heat and UVA, but essentially no UVB. I was devastated to realize I had misunderstood this for so long.

The vet was reassuring. Bloodwork, fecal testing, and X-rays all came back normal. His heart sounded good, and overall she felt he looked healthy, though she noted he was “a little flat” and that his bone density was only mediocre. We immediately made a plan to correct the UVB issue and continue proper calcium supplementation. She felt confident enough to simply recheck him in a year. She did not at any point say MBD although I unfortunately think it is inevitably obvious at this point. I feel she may have been a bit cautious on how she worded things given my anxiety level but I am debating getting a second opinion.

Since then, I’ve installed a 48" ReptiSun 10.0 UVB tube, returned to daily calcium supplementation, increased soaking frequency, and plan to maximize safe outdoor sunlight exposure. I also had the vet test the UVB output checked to ensure it’s providing proper coverage through the mesh top.

My boy remains active, eats well, poops normally, walks strongly with his body off the ground, and seems happy and interactive. He truly shows absolutely no signs of illness other than the deformities in his shell (it slightly sinks inward in the back two corners)

I know I can’t change the past, but I’m grateful this routine vet visit revealed the issue before it became something much worse. I’ve thrown myself back into learning everything I can and want to make sure I’m doing the best possible job going forward.

What else can I do to support his health? And for those who have made husbandry mistakes in the past, how do you move past the guilt and stop feeling like a failure?

Picture of his enclosure for context View attachment 401664
View attachment 401667

View attachment 401663

Your tortoise does not appear to have MBD. It has a slight amount of pyramiding, but it is not nearly as severe as what we often see on this forum.

Is the photo of the head in your first post from before or after the beak trim? I ask because the upper beak as shown in the photo still needs to be trimmed. It needs to be tapered back toward the lower beak more so that the upper and lower beaks can cut grass blades, leaves, and lettuces like the blades of a pair of scissors. IE, the upper beak should be just outside of the lower beak, not 1/4" further out from it. Proper beak alignment will make it much easier for the tortoise to eat properly (please note that I am a dentist and have knowledge of proper jaw and bite relationships).

 

[jtpetdad]

Your tortoise does not appear to have MBD. It has a slight amount of pyramiding, but it is not nearly as severe as what we often see on this forum.

Is the photo of the head in your first post from before or after the beak trim? I ask because the upper beak as shown in the photo still needs to be trimmed. It needs to be tapered back toward the lower beak more so that the upper and lower beaks can cut grass blades, leaves, and lettuces like the blades of a pair of scissors. IE, the upper beak should be just outside of the lower beak, not 1/4" further out from it. Proper beak alignment will make it much easier for the tortoise to eat properly (please note that I am a dentist and have knowledge of proper jaw and bite relationships).

after the beak trim

 

[Fluffy]

He roams my backyard freely for hours with monitoring. It’s all fenced in. I do not have a proper outside enclosure no, we’re in for dis and while the temperature probably would work I’m concerned about bugs and smaller animals getting into the enclosure.

The very best thing you could do is set him up in a proper outside enclosure. If you're not comfortable leaving him outside over night you could always bring him at night. You have a perfect climate for your tortoise and outside is where he should be. Even if your yard is fenced it's not as safe as having a proper enclosure.

 

[jtpetdad]

The very best thing you could do is set him up in a proper outside enclosure. If you're not comfortable leaving him outside over night you could always bring him at night. You have a perfect climate for your tortoise and outside is where he should be. Even if your yard is fenced it's not as safe as having a proper enclosure.

Just to clarify he is not just left outside for the day haha it’s hour or so intervals where we are supervising him. The enclosure pictured is actually on wheels and can be rolled in/out side- do you think that would suffice or I’d need to build a proper “garden”

 

[jtpetdad]

Your tortoise does not appear to have MBD. It has a slight amount of pyramiding, but it is not nearly as severe as what we often see on this forum.

Is the photo of the head in your first post from before or after the beak trim? I ask because the upper beak as shown in the photo still needs to be trimmed. It needs to be tapered back toward the lower beak more so that the upper and lower beaks can cut grass blades, leaves, and lettuces like the blades of a pair of scissors. IE, the upper beak should be just outside of the lower beak, not 1/4" further out from it. Proper beak alignment will make it much easier for the tortoise to eat properly (please note that I am a dentist and have knowledge of proper jaw and bite relationships).

I appreciate you saying this! I just find it hard to process after everything I’ve read it’s not MBD, maybe I’m scaring myself…. It’s just looking at his shell and feeling like I’ve ruined his quality of life is absolutely gut wrenching. I’d do anything I can to make him happy and healthy and take accountability for my ignorance, I just can’t help this pit in my stomach that won’t go away.

 

[zovick]

I appreciate you saying this! I just find it hard to process after everything I’ve read it’s not MBD, maybe I’m scaring myself…. It’s just looking at his shell and feeling like I’ve ruined his quality of life is absolutely gut wrenching. I’d do anything I can to make him happy and healthy and take accountability for my ignorance, I just can’t help this pit in my stomach that won’t go away.

Tortoises with MBD have a severe dip in their backline at about the mid-point and often all the way to the rear of the carapace (yours has no sign of that). In profile, it looks as though they have been stepped on. They have difficulty walking up on all four legs, usually having to pull themselves around with their front legs while the two back legs drag behind them. The front of the plastron barely gets off the substrate (if it does at all), while the back of the plastron just slides on it.

 

[Alice Sulcatia]

I appreciate you saying this! I just find it hard to process after everything I’ve read it’s not MBD, maybe I’m scaring myself…. It’s just looking at his shell and feeling like I’ve ruined his quality of life is absolutely gut wrenching. I’d do anything I can to make him happy and healthy and take accountability for my ignorance, I just can’t help this pit in my stomach that won’t go away.

Parents Fck Up! It's a fact of life. I did it, they did it, the butler did it... It sucks, but don't beat yourself up about it till the end of days. You caught the error, and you are making changes! That's what matters. Yes, your little one has slight pyramiding, but it's not the end of the world. It's not like you were villainously plotting it! It's an honest mistake, and you are taking action to do right by him. Take a deep breath, and know you are not the worst turtle parent. He will be ok. You will be ok. A mistake is not a life sentence, and your little guy doesn't hate you for it. And with all this fuss and guilt-tripping party, how come we still don't know his name? Huh?

 

[COmtnLady]

Everyone has to learn how to do it right. Don't listen to info you find in other places - The Tortoise Forum has the most up-to-date info for maximum health and the best life for a captive tortoise.


Too much calcium is as bad as not enough. They only need a tiny pinch two or three times per week. More than that and it builds up and can cause bladder and etc. stones, and also block absorption of other important nutrients. More is not better.


Have you had a chance to read this yet? It will help you understand a lot and bring up a ton of questions to ask.

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

Is that artificial grass in the enclosure? That isn't good to have around a tortoise.

And the barrier of rocks will scratch his plastron (not the round ones, of course, but I see a lot of sharp edges in the pile), so it would be good to remove them.

The bark end seems really red compared to what I am used to. What sort of bark are you using there?

It would be easier for your tort if the water dish was sunken down into the substrate a bit. If you counter-sink it until it only has perhaps 1/2inch or less sticking up above the the surface of your substrate it will make it a LOT easier for your tortoise to access the water. If you make it flush with the surface your tort will walk a lot of the substrate in, so a little lip helps with that.

Show us pics of his plastron and feet. Maybe a close-up of his face, too.

There seems to be some hay or dried grass in the top pic. It can get mildewed/moldy sitting under lights, with the humidity. It would be good to pull that before it goes bad.

Your tortoise doesn't look like it has any problem, as Zovick said. He's pretty and he lucked out finding someone who cares as much as you do. We all go through a learning curve. You are doing fine. And your tortoise looks good!


Welcome to the Forum!


.

 

[jtpetdad]

Everyone has to learn how to do it right. Don't listen to info you find in other places - The Tortoise Forum has the most up-to-date info for maximum health and the best life for a captive tortoise.


Too much calcium is as bad as not enough. They only need a tiny pinch two or three times per week. More than that and it builds up and can cause bladder and etc. stones, and also block absorption of other important nutrients. More is not better.


Have you had a chance to read this yet? It will help you understand a lot and bring up a ton of questions to ask.

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

Is that artificial grass in the enclosure? That isn't good to have around a tortoise.

And the barrier of rocks will scratch his plastron (not the round ones, of course, but I see a lot of sharp edges in the pile), so it would be good to remove them.

The bark end seems really red compared to what I am used to. What sort of bark are you using there?

It would be easier for your tort if the water dish was sunken down into the substrate a bit. If you counter-sink it until it only has perhaps 1/2inch or less sticking up above the the surface of your substrate it will make it a LOT easier for your tortoise to access the water. If you make it flush with the surface your tort will walk a lot of the substrate in, so a little lip helps with that.

Show us pics of his plastron and feet. Maybe a close-up of his face, too.

There seems to be some hay or dried grass in the top pic. It can get mildewed/moldy sitting under lights, with the humidity. It would be good to pull that before it goes bad.

Your tortoise doesn't look like it has any problem, as Zovick said. He's pretty and he lucked out finding someone who cares as much as you do. We all go through a learning curve. You are doing fine. And your tortoise looks good!


Welcome to the Forum!


.

• It’s not plastic turf it’s like an artificial “moss mat” that’s very soft, and I put it because the lining of the turtle tub is very slippery plastic and it’s easier for him to walk on this

•noted about calcium! Is there any other vitamin/supplements I should be adding 2/3 times a week?

• The bark is just repti bark!

• Good note on the rocks

• thank you for all the kind and constructive feedback

Let me get the pics you asked for

 

[jtpetdad]

Parents Fck Up! It's a fact of life. I did it, they did it, the butler did it... It sucks, but don't beat yourself up about it till the end of days. You caught the error, and you are making changes! That's what matters. Yes, your little one has slight pyramiding, but it's not the end of the world. It's not like you were villainously plotting it! It's an honest mistake, and you are taking action to do right by him. Take a deep breath, and know you are not the worst turtle parent. He will be ok. You will be ok. A mistake is not a life sentence, and your little guy doesn't hate you for it. And with all this fuss and guilt-tripping party, how come we still don't know his name? Huh?

His name is Falafel he is a 4 YO male hermanns

 

[zovick]

• It’s not plastic turf it’s like an artificial “moss mat” that’s very soft, and I put it because the lining of the turtle tub is very slippery plastic and it’s easier for him to walk on this

•noted about calcium! Is there any other vitamin/supplements I should be adding 2/3 times a week?

• The bark is just repti bark!

• Good note on the rocks

• thank you for all the kind and constructive feedback

Let me get the pics you asked for

I would heartily recommend using both Herptivite Vitamins and Rep-Cal Calcium (Ultrafine WITH Vitamin D) on your tortoise's food several times per week.

Note: I always used both of those powders on all of my tortoises' foods EVERY DAY and had great success breeding tortoises and experienced no problems over the 35 years I did so, but people on TFO will generally oppose using them daily.

 

[Fluffy]

Just to clarify he is not just left outside for the day haha it’s hour or so intervals where we are supervising him. The enclosure pictured is actually on wheels and can be rolled in/out side- do you think that would suffice or I’d need to build a proper “garden”

Being outside whenever possible is the absolute best way to raise a healthy tortoise. What concerns or limitations do you have with setting up an outside enclosure? Maybe we can help work through those.

 

[jtpetdad]

Being outside whenever possible is the absolute best way to raise a healthy tortoise. What concerns or limitations do you have with setting up an outside enclosure? Maybe we can help work through those.

It’s really just the idea of bugs/small critters getting into the enclosure. Additionally the top/stand of the tub is made of wood so would worry about molding but obviously his health is the higher priority. As noted the enclosure was built on wheels so it can be wheeled in and out of my garage, I suppose I can wheel him out in the daytime and then bring him in at night?

 

[Fluffy]

It’s really just the idea of bugs/small critters getting into the enclosure. Additionally the top/stand of the tub is made of wood so would worry about molding but obviously his health is the higher priority. As noted the enclosure was built on wheels so it can be wheeled in and out of my garage, I suppose I can wheel him out in the daytime and then bring him in at night

Just from the one picture of your enclosure I don't think it should be used outside. The lights will probably not appreciate the rain. Also it would need to drain and I'm not sure it has proper places to avoid the heat like a well planted outdoor enclosure would.

 

[jtpetdad]

Well if I moved him outside with direct sun access I’d obv get rid of the lights haha

Just from the one picture of your enclosure I don't think it should be used outside. The lights will probably not appreciate the rain. Also it would need to drain and I'm not sure it has proper places to avoid the heat like a well planted outdoor enclosure would.