New owner in the UK

Hi everyone, very glad to be here.

My family and I have just rehomed a 10 month old Sulcata - I thought I'd done a lot of reading but only a day in it's certainly a steep learning curve. We're in the UK so warmth is a challenge. He/she has come with lots of equipment, but we are most definitely wanting to take advice to give it the best conditions possible - and there seems to be a lot of conflicting advice out there so I'm very received to have found this wonderful resource full of knowledgeable people!

Last night, our first, was a challenge with the temperature, I've been up for most of it keeping track but the 'cool' end of the enclosure remained at around 18.5C all night whereas I was targeting 20C. I kept the radiator in the room at 22C and have since upped it to 25C permanently as of this morning (good time for there to be a spike in gas prices!!).

From what I've read we're likely losing a lot of heat due to the enclosure we were given being an open type. I've added some foil wrapped cardboard around the cool end for now. It's not pretty but it's temporary and hopefully it helps.

Substrate - 80% topsoil 20% play sand mix

- Ceramic lamp (centre of enclosure) - 150W
- Arcadia D3+ UVB lamp and basking lamp on 8am-8pm timer
- All 3 of the above controlled by a Habistat. Temperature probe on the side of the enclosure at the cool end approx. 1 inch above the substrate, set to target 25C 8am-8pm, 20C at night.
- Slate tile underneath basking lamp
- Water in sunken plastic bowl towards cool end
- Food in bowl is some meadow hay and a rehydrated pellet of Arcadia EarthPro Optimised52. We haven't seen him eat yet.
- Upturned Tupperware in the corner of the cool end with an arch cut in, with the substrate in there damp to try and make a humid hide.

We got him home around 24 hours ago and, while he was quite active in his box for the drive, when we set up the enclosure he went straight into the back corner (cool end), tucked in to his shell and didn't move. He was still the same this morning, so I got him out, bathed him in the sink at ~30C water a third of the way up his body while I rearranged the lamps, fixed in the fake plants and added the foil, slate etc. Placed him in the warm end and getting a lot more movement since.

I'm sure I'll have a lot of questions but off the top of my head

- How is the setup looking currently? I'm here to learn and do the best for the animal so don't hold back!
- Substrate - is this mix OK?
- Sphagnum moss. I'd bought this having read it's good as a substrate in the hide for humidity, but then read here that it's not so good so currently it's in its packed. Should I use it or return it? If the latter should I just keep the current substrate damp in the hide?
- Do I need to be thinking about replacing the enclosure with something that's actually enclosed?
- I'm lucky to have a large garden so in the future/summer hopefully he can enjoy the lawn out there.
- While I'm aiming for 25 in the cool end during the day I'm currently only getting 22.5. The piece of slate is reading 35 with a laser thermometer.

Thank you in advance, looking forward to being here for the long haul! I've attached a few photos for comment!

Hello, welcome, and congratulations!

The MacGyvered enclosure has merit, and you are on the right track. You are correct about losing heat as well as humidity due to the open enclosure. For the time being, I would cover it with a towel, the part where the foil line is. I had one of the wooden enclosures like this (photo attached), a hide- dark area cool and open area warm with a heat lamp, and a wood tunnel and terracotta pot for daytime naps. My go-to small enclosure substrate has been coconut noir; I kept it semi-damp for humidity sake. Spraying it with a water bottle and dumping the water tray in it did the trick. Humidity and hydration are critical for Sulcatas, so keep on giving your little fellow soaks as much as you can.

Arcadia 52 Optimized is fantastic and has been my Sulcata favorite for a while; however, I mix it with chopped romaine and other fresh greens + supplements (Calcium, Kerotine, Nopal, and multivitamin) added one per meal time. As well, I soak the pellets in hibiscus or rose brew, torts have an excellent smell, nobody wants a boring salad! Hahaha. On the other hand, a well-heated tort has better digestion and appetite than one that is cold, so make sure he gets basking time before he eats.

How is he/she doing today? And have you come up with the name?

Thanks for the reply and warm welcome Alice and of course the advice!

Covering with a towel - would you recommend I mount the UVB strip light underneath/inside then and cover half the enclosure with a towel (up as far along as the CHE in the middle?)

Were you able to maintain decent humidity with the enclosure you linked even though half of it is open to the air?

Love the hibiscus/rose brew tip - do you just use the normal off the shelf natural tea bags for this?

I've left he/she at home and forced myself to come in to the office as knew if I stayed there I'd be fussing over it all day - it's more nerve wracking than having a new born!

No name yet, our eldest daughter is 13 next week and this will be her baby (youngest has a bearded dragon), so watch this space. We're currently hiding him/her in the study hoping the children don't find a reason to go in there and see the surprise!

I'll get some coir ordered now.

Olimain said:

Thanks for the reply and warm welcome Alice and of course the advice!

Covering with a towel - would you recommend I mount the UVB strip light underneath/inside then and cover half the enclosure with a towel (up as far along as the CHE in the middle?)

Were you able to maintain decent humidity with the enclosure you linked even though half of it is open to the air?

Love the hibiscus/rose brew tip - do you just use the normal off the shelf natural tea bags for this?

I've left he/she at home and forced myself to come in to the office as knew if I stayed there I'd be fussing over it all day - it's more nerve wracking than having a new born!

No name yet, our eldest daughter is 13 next week and this will be her baby (youngest has a bearded dragon), so watch this space. We're currently hiding him/her in the study hoping the children don't find a reason to go in there and see the surprise!

I'll get some coir ordered now.

Click to expand...

Hahahah, yes, baby Sulcatas are a newborn fuss galore, and it's fabulous!

The wooden box enclosure had good success in keeping humidity. When we hit triple digits in Arizona, I added a humidifier next to the enclosure for an extra boost. Towel or wood plank, something that keeps the area covered effectively, and yes, till the middle sounds good. The dark/cool/hide area is as important as the sunny/warm area.

Hibiscus and Rose brews I make from dried petals that I ordered from Kapidolo Farms; however, my workaround when they are out, or budget gets tighter, is to order organic loose-leaf hibiscus tea. Half a teaspoon per glass of drinking water, let it sit overnight. Teabags are a no-go.

Regards Noir, if you are into gardening, there is a wonderful secondary benefit to this. 1. Use it in potting and garden (crumble it all up, add water and dirt, and you have a superb fertilizer). My plants are thriving with Noir Turtle nuggets concoction 2. Add it to the compost. 3. Roses love this, too.

Best of luck with hiding the surprise from the kids!

Hi Olimain!

My advise to you is to not spend too much money on small enclosures, but make sure that each is closed from all side.
If things starts going well for your tort he will be outgrowing you current setup in maximun 3 month.

I have a 3 year old sulcata right now already living outside full time since a year. I upgraded his place like this:

• First setup 0-6 month: 150x70x50cm (He was 300 g)
• 6-15 month: 2x 150x70 cm in an L shape screwed together (1200g)
• Last indoor setup: 15-27 month: The L shape plus some room to go out from the enclosure, combined 220x150cm (4000g)

You know when your encosure is small because the tort will start to destroy everything inside it. I finish my last indoor setup only with the hide in it.

Very important is that you shoud not increase the humidity and dampen the substrate until you have covered enclosure with good temps in it, otherwise it can cause respiratory infection quickly.

I did run my enclosure with 33-35 °C under the basking lamp 26 °C ambient and 22 °C on the cold corner. Mine liked to sleep a lot in the cold zone for some reason.



Wish you all the best.

Thank you Pák - my do they grow fast! He's much more active today and enjoyed his soak, scuttling around the sink. I managed to keep the temperature up at 20C overnight which I was pleased with. I'm assuming I have next to 0 humidity though due so this open enclosure so I'm going to build an insulated one next week.

How much height would you say you have on the inside of the Indoor enclosures you posted. If they're 50cm total, if I am for 40cm internal does that sound right or is it a case of more height is better as long as I can hang the heat/light at an appropriate level?

The height determinates the tickness of the substrate, and the lenght of tha lamp dome, as well as the wattage of the bulb.
In my case there was only 3-5 cm substrate with a ~20cm long dome running with 60W bulb. I think with 40 cm you can go with 20 or 30W bulbs, because i think 20 cm long domes are the smallest ones.

Pák enclosure is beautiful, and if you have the capability and capacity to build one more power to you. Keeping in mind not only the rate of growth but also the need to roam, the more space the better. Or if you have a different space as well to let him/her exercise down the road. Sulcatas are notorious walkers. I`ve seen people transform their guest rooms, garages, and garden sheds into Turtle dens. Tried to find videos I've seen on youtube but to no avail.

Olimain said:

Hi everyone, very glad to be here.

My family and I have just rehomed a 10 month old Sulcata - I thought I'd done a lot of reading but only a day in it's certainly a steep learning curve. We're in the UK so warmth is a challenge. He/she has come with lots of equipment, but we are most definitely wanting to take advice to give it the best conditions possible - and there seems to be a lot of conflicting advice out there so I'm very received to have found this wonderful resource full of knowledgeable people!

Last night, our first, was a challenge with the temperature, I've been up for most of it keeping track but the 'cool' end of the enclosure remained at around 18.5C all night whereas I was targeting 20C. I kept the radiator in the room at 22C and have since upped it to 25C permanently as of this morning (good time for there to be a spike in gas prices!!).

From what I've read we're likely losing a lot of heat due to the enclosure we were given being an open type. I've added some foil wrapped cardboard around the cool end for now. It's not pretty but it's temporary and hopefully it helps.

Substrate - 80% topsoil 20% play sand mix

- Ceramic lamp (centre of enclosure) - 150W
- Arcadia D3+ UVB lamp and basking lamp on 8am-8pm timer
- All 3 of the above controlled by a Habistat. Temperature probe on the side of the enclosure at the cool end approx. 1 inch above the substrate, set to target 25C 8am-8pm, 20C at night.
- Slate tile underneath basking lamp
- Water in sunken plastic bowl towards cool end
- Food in bowl is some meadow hay and a rehydrated pellet of Arcadia EarthPro Optimised52. We haven't seen him eat yet.
- Upturned Tupperware in the corner of the cool end with an arch cut in, with the substrate in there damp to try and make a humid hide.

We got him home around 24 hours ago and, while he was quite active in his box for the drive, when we set up the enclosure he went straight into the back corner (cool end), tucked in to his shell and didn't move. He was still the same this morning, so I got him out, bathed him in the sink at ~30C water a third of the way up his body while I rearranged the lamps, fixed in the fake plants and added the foil, slate etc. Placed him in the warm end and getting a lot more movement since.

I'm sure I'll have a lot of questions but off the top of my head

- How is the setup looking currently? I'm here to learn and do the best for the animal so don't hold back!
- Substrate - is this mix OK?
- Sphagnum moss. I'd bought this having read it's good as a substrate in the hide for humidity, but then read here that it's not so good so currently it's in its packed. Should I use it or return it? If the latter should I just keep the current substrate damp in the hide?
- Do I need to be thinking about replacing the enclosure with something that's actually enclosed?
- I'm lucky to have a large garden so in the future/summer hopefully he can enjoy the lawn out there.
- While I'm aiming for 25 in the cool end during the day I'm currently only getting 22.5. The piece of slate is reading 35 with a laser thermometer.

Thank you in advance, looking forward to being here for the long haul! I've attached a few photos for comment!

View attachment 399280

View attachment 399281

View attachment 399282

View attachment 399283

Click to expand...

Hello and welcome from a fellow uk member! I won’t lie to you, you’ve definitely took on a huge challenge with this species in our climate, but one step at a time! We can help you in each different life stage

Now first and foremost, you don’t want anywhere in your enclosure dropping below 80f(26c) day or night for a sulcata, you’re going to need a ceramic heat emitter to achieve this(a none light emitting heat bulb that added ambient humidity and provides night heat)

You indeed will be loosing the much needed heat and humidity a baby sully needs with an open top, I definitely wouldn’t suggest the enclosure @Alice Sulcatia linked, they can’t appropriately maintain the humidity, we don’t generally recommend humidifiers, they don’t actually maintain your ambient humidity properly, they are simply temporary boosting the levels by getting the surface area wet, the evaporation effect causes temperature fluctuations. The safest most efficient way is a thick damp substrate layer(maintained using the lukewarm water pour method covered in my care sheet), in a proper closed chamber set up.

I’d switch out the substrate for fine grade orchid bark, you can use damp coco coir to bulk it out as a base too if you wish. Top soils aren’t a good substrate, there’s no knowing what’s in the bags unless composted yourself, and sand poses both an impaction and irritant risk in captivity. Definitely return the sphagnum moss, you could technically use it as decor, but only if it’s out of the tortoises reach.

I’d definitely have a look into some sort of covering for your set up, whilst you could technically go the viv route(most efficient maintaining temps and humidity), they are quite a spend for a species that will outgrow it, if you’re going to do it, go as big as you can so it lasts till he’s ready for an adult space.

I would also look into upgrading your lighting, mvb aren’t the best choice for multiple reasons, It’s best going with a separate uvb and heat set up(still mounted close) having combined heat and uv means when adjusting your height to create the desired basking temperature, you’re messing with your UVI zone, they are much more desiccating on the shell and their uv output often very unreliable.
There’s the added fact of uv timing, with the uv timing, every other source of information will tell you 12hours of uv. This is essentially an old fashioned rule that has stuck with a lot of keepers, it stems from the presumption that once the basking light or ambient lighting is on, ie the ‘sun’, that uv must coexist the same amount of hours. Fact is, uv rays only peak for a few hours a day, anyone with a uv meter will confirm this. No tortoise is blasted with 12 hours of uv in the wild, therefore it’s not necessary in captivity. Whilst not necessarily dangerous, it’s potentially annoying to the tortoise to have 12hours on uv in the enclosure.
The right uv bulbs are much more expensive to replace once their uv strength diminishes, so it’s definitely best having it on a 4 hour timer that provides them with all the uv they need, saving your bulb life.
Then some cheaper led lighting for your ambient 12 hour light cycle as well as the basking light on the same 12hrs, your ceramic(s) will run 24/7 on a thermostat, hope that all makes sense
The most recommended up to date indoor uv option is t5 tube fluorescent bulbs, they disperse the uv light over a much wider area. Recommended brands are Arcadia proT5 kit 12% or zoo med reptisun t5 10.0(hood usually sold separate)
I’d ditch the double dome fixture, they’re very deep set which doesn’t allow for the best heat distribution, you want your bulbs in separate fixtures any way ideally.

This thread covers correct equipment(uvb, heating bulbs, lighting etc), correct levels, importance of a closed chamber for younger tortoises(only way to maintain the humidity you need), appropriately maintaining the humidity, safe substrates, there’s lots of visual examples for everything, and a really handy diet link to check out! If ever going with a greenhouse, the lower the ceiling height, whilst still allowing for recommended bulb height, the better, but I’ll add more ideas below for closed chambers

This covers a bunch of other closed chamber options, some do work better than others

This one is good to go over and keep on hand, it’ll help you avoid the wrong bulbs, substrates, housing etc, I always encourage double checking purchases on the forum too before buying

This recent discussion will a fellow uk sulcata owner might be a good read to help get your head around his future set up

I hope they can help! Always feel free to ask more questions! And let me know if you need uk links to any specific products, glad you’ve joined the forum!

Thanks so much for taking the time to write such a detailed reply. Hugely appreciated.

I've ordered a lot of sheets of plywood, 50mm insulation, 3x2 timber etc to be delivered Friday morning so will build something proper this weekend at approximately 8ft x 4ft with glass front/sliding doors.

I had 40L of fine Orchid Bark delivered yesterday, not sure it'll be enough for 8x4?

Regarding lighting, my current setup seems to be as you suggest, I don't have any combined lights?

- Ceramic lamp (centre of enclosure) - 150W
- Arcadia D3+ 12% T5 UVB lamp 24W on 8am-8pm timer
- Basking lamp on 8am-8pm timer
- All 3 of the above controlled by a Habistat. Temperature probe on the side of the enclosure at the cool end approx. 1 inch above the substrate, set to target 25C 8am-8pm, 20C at night.
- Slate tile underneath basking lamp

Would you recommend I switch the D3+ UVB lamp to be on from 10am-2pm instead of 8-8?

We had our first 'toilet' event during bathing this morning which was reassuring and hopefully a good sign. I think he/she has eaten as well. I was at the beach at the weekend and picked up a load of cuttle bones which seem to be getting some love too

Olimain said:

Thanks so much for taking the time to write such a detailed reply. Hugely appreciated.

I've ordered a lot of sheets of plywood, 50mm insulation, 3x2 timber etc to be delivered Friday morning so will build something proper this weekend at approximately 8ft x 4ft with glass front/sliding doors.

I had 40L of fine Orchid Bark delivered yesterday, not sure it'll be enough for 8x4?

Regarding lighting, my current setup seems to be as you suggest, I don't have any combined lights?

- Ceramic lamp (centre of enclosure) - 150W
- Arcadia D3+ 12% T5 UVB lamp 24W on 8am-8pm timer
- Basking lamp on 8am-8pm timer
- All 3 of the above controlled by a Habistat. Temperature probe on the side of the enclosure at the cool end approx. 1 inch above the substrate, set to target 25C 8am-8pm, 20C at night.
- Slate tile underneath basking lamp

Would you recommend I switch the D3+ UVB lamp to be on from 10am-2pm instead of 8-8?

We had our first 'toilet' event during bathing this morning which was reassuring and hopefully a good sign. I think he/she has eaten as well. I was at the beach at the weekend and picked up a load of cuttle bones which seem to be getting some love too

Click to expand...

No problem at all! You’re probably going to need another 30-40 to fill an 8x4 comfortably. Seems a lot I know, but they’re massive once built.

Forgive me, I think because of the way it was written I was under the impression the basking was an all in one heat and uvb bulb, I don’t suppose you have the product photo? Because the green hue it’s giving off does indicate it might be, for a basking bulb this is the one you’ll want

(Some folks have to try different watts)

Basking and ambient lighting(I would have a look at adding some led lighting) can remain on the same 12 hour timer, 8-8 is fine

It’s the t5 uvb that can be on its own separate 4 hour timer from around noon.

Your ceramic(s) will be running 24/7 on the thermostat. You don’t want night temps dipping below 80f(26c) anywhere, for the size upgrade you’re likely going to need another ceramic or two, mount them all equal distance apart for an even heat distribution.

Basking bulbs do technically work best off of the thermostat, it’s acting as your ‘sun’ so you don’t want it dimming on&off all day, it’s ideal if you find the perfect watt and height to create the desired basking temperature directly underneath.

Only your ceramics should be on the thermostat. You can keep the probe in the end furthest from the bulbs, set the stat for around 26c, if it’s not keeping everywhere in the enclosure at that level at least, you can tweak it up a few more degrees and keep monitoring the temp.

You want your uvb strip and basking by one another further the one end. With a singular ceramic you want that in the middle, so that’s correct, when using multiple like I say, hang them equal distance. Ambient lighting should be in the middle too, it helps keep the whole enclosure nice and ‘sunny’ once uvb is off for the day, the basking bulb alone isn’t really enough to light the whole space once uv is off, which can effect activity levels.

Temperature levels during the day should be 95-100f(directly under basking bulb), ‘warmer end’ 90ish, middle 85, ‘cooler’ no lower than 80. Night temperatures ranging 80-85f. Key is making sure the bare minimum is 80f.

Hope this helps! Do let us know if you have any further queries

Oh also for your thermostat, make sure the wattage it can take is at least double of the wattage you’ll be plugging into it

Thank you.

I'll get another 40L of bark ordered now along with the basking bulb.

This is the best photo I have which doesn't look like the same bulb you linked so would prefer to play it safe and get the right item:



My T5 UVB is the 24W version, 55cm long. I guess the first question is - is it big enough? And the 2nd question, looking from above, is this the sort of layout you would suggest?



Any recommendations for some ambient LED lighting?

It sounds to me like I should run a 2nd Habistat?

1 - controls CHE on thermostat and UVB on 4hr timer
2 - control basking lamp on the thermostat controlled socket (but also with a timer socket too so that it does not turn on regardless outside of 8am-8pm and ambient lighting on a 12hr timer?

Does that make sense?

A couple of these, one at each for Ambient?

Some cheap led strips are more than enough for ambient light.

Olimain said:

Thank you.

I'll get another 40L of bark ordered now along with the basking bulb.

This is the best photo I have which doesn't look like the same bulb you linked so would prefer to play it safe and get the right item:

View attachment 399427

My T5 UVB is the 24W version, 55cm long. I guess the first question is - is it big enough? And the 2nd question, looking from above, is this the sort of layout you would suggest?

View attachment 399428

Any recommendations for some ambient LED lighting?

It sounds to me like I should run a 2nd Habistat?

1 - controls CHE on thermostat and UVB on 4hr timer
2 - control basking lamp on the thermostat controlled socket (but also with a timer socket too so that it does not turn on regardless outside of 8am-8pm and ambient lighting on a 12hr timer?

Does that make sense?

Click to expand...

Sounds goodthe 24w uvb is big enough

We personally use these for our LEDs, but as Pak says, you can go much cheaper, we just liked the design of these, and you’re able to extend them to whatever size.

But you certainly don’t have to go that expensive

Olimain said:

A couple of these, one at each for Ambient?

V-TAC LED Weatherproof Fitting IP65 6500K

• Lightweight durable polycarbonate body• IP65 rated - watertight and dust-tight• 6500K colour temperature• 20cm prewired cable & mounting brackets included• Ideal for domestic & commercial lighting• Easy installation, 20,000 hours lifetime• Low maintenance and energy saving• 1900 lumens output•...

www.toolstation.com

Click to expand...

Looks fine to me, just one in the middle should be sufficient

What watt is the habistat? One thermostat for two ceramics should be fine, ours is set up for a red foot, so her heating set up is different for her species, we personally use multiple thermostats, but for yours one should suffice.

That all makes sense and sounds good.

Here’s some suggestions for the heating and lighting placements for an 8x4, this is just how I’d personally tackle it, but there’s certainly multiple ways, you might get some suggestions from others

I personally think you’re going to need two ceramics, also when it comes to the probe placement, some people set it for their max nighttime temperature(85ish)and place it directly under one of the ceramics, or set it for the lowest temp(80f) and place it in a corner furthest from the bulbs, we personally prefer the latter, but see what works for you, every new set up can take tweaks and wiggling around

This is utterly amazing, I am incredibly grateful for you taking the trouble to do this.

Olimain said:

This is utterly amazing, I am incredibly grateful for you taking the trouble to do this.

Click to expand...

No problem at all! Us tortoise parents are all in this together!

Welcome to the forum!