2nd level in enclosure?

[dew]

I am thinking of adding a second level to my torts enclosure so he has some more square footage. How would I go about doing this? At what incline should I make the ramp? How high will the side guards need to be so my tort doesn't fall off? Is this even something I should go through with?

Thanks

 

[TammyJ]

Hi. You need to give us more details as to what species of tortoise, how large, send pictures etc.

 

[dew]

Hi. You need to give us more details as to what species of tortoise, how large, send pictures etc.

Russian adult 7". Current enclosure size is 7x4' and I would like to make the upper level 2x4 or 3x4.

 

[TammyJ]

@Tom

 

[Tom]

@Tom

Not my cup of tea.

 

[dew]

Not my cup of tea.

Can you elaborate why not?

 

[Tom]

Can you elaborate why not?

Sure. I've tried it myself, and I've looked at what others have done, and I don't think it works very well. Tortoises are not arboreal and going up and down levels for them just seems weird to me. They walk on flat earth. Sure there may be drop offs and cliffs in the wild, but most of their lives are spent on one plane.

It also annoys me in an intangible way that is difficult to put into words. This is purely Tom being OCD and weird, and not reflective of any one else's point of view. Its a quirk of mine. A pet peeve, if you will. I don't "like" the way these enclosures look. They make me feel strangely cramped up and uncomfortable. I'm not claustrophobic at all, but that is the "feeling" these types of enclosures engender in me. When I view a pic of this type of enclosure it feels too tight and confined, so I quickly click out of it and on to something else. I like to see tortoises in large wide open enclosures. Seeing them tucked under the second story or exposed and on the top level literally makes me cringe. I just don't like it. I don't like the idea of it.

If done correctly, I don't think it does any specific harm to a tortoise, so I don't rail against multilevel enclosures, but based on what I've seen and done myself, I prefer not to do it that way. Hence, not my cup of tea. If I thought it did harm, I'd argue against it. I don't think it is harmful if done safely, but I don't like them. I also don't like it when cars have two different types of door handles on the front and rear doors. The asymmetry of it literally makes me shiver. And it really grinds my gears when people don't use their turn indicators. It also drives me completely batty when people gut their falconry catches and bury the guts in the field. That should NEVER be done! And don't get me started on people who don't put caps or lids back on bottles or jars properly...

As my wife frequently remarks to me: Its not easy being you, is it?

 

[dew]

Sure. I've tried it myself, and I've looked at what others have done, and I don't think it works very well. Tortoises are not arboreal and going up and down levels for them just seems weird to me. They walk on flat earth. Sure there may be drop offs and cliffs in the wild, but most of their lives are spent on one plane.

It also annoys me in an intangible way that is difficult to put into words. This is purely Tom being OCD and weird, and not reflective of any one else's point of view. Its a quirk of mine. A pet peeve, if you will. I don't "like" the way these enclosures look. They make me feel strangely cramped up and uncomfortable. I'm not claustrophobic at all, but that is the "feeling" these types of enclosures engender in me. When I view a pic of this type of enclosure it feels too tight and confined, so I quickly click out of it and on to something else. I like to see tortoises in large wide open enclosures. Seeing them tucked under the second story or exposed and on the top level literally makes me cringe. I just don't like it. I don't like the idea of it.

If done correctly, I don't think it does any specific harm to a tortoise, so I don't rail against multilevel enclosures, but based on what I've seen and done myself, I prefer not to do it that way. Hence, not my cup of tea. If I thought it did harm, I'd argue against it. I don't think it is harmful if done safely, but I don't like them. I also don't like it when cars have two different types of door handles on the front and rear doors. The asymmetry of it literally makes me shiver. And it really grinds my gears when people don't use their turn indicators. It also drives me completely batty when people gut their falconry catches and bury the guts in the field. That should NEVER be done! And don't get me started on people who don't put caps or lids back on bottles or jars properly...

As my wife frequently remarks to me: Its not easy being you, is it?

thank you for this insight xD

 

[wellington]

I have no problem with ramps. My tortoises/leopards use them all summer long to get outside.
My russian doesn't but he had no problem climbing straight up a tree. Most don't seem to have a problem going up which is what any that burrow have to do if they want to get out of their burrow that walked down into. No difference.
I think second levels are great for people that don't have the space to go out. Not everyone does
If you post a pic of what you have now, we can better help with trying to add an upper level.
If I were going to do one. I would make a ramp that goes up to the top of the sides of what you have now. Then make a walk way all the way around. Maybe with a larger space hanging part way over the lower enclosure.

 

[Tom]

I have no problem with ramps. My tortoises/leopards use them all summer long to get outside.
My russian doesn't but he had no problem climbing straight up a tree. Most don't seem to have a problem going up which is what any that burrow have to do if they want to get out of their burrow that walked down into. No difference.
I think second levels are great for people that don't have the space to go out. Not everyone does
If you post a pic of what you have now, we can better help with trying to add an upper level.
If I were going to do one. I would make a ramp that goes up to the top of the sides of what you have now. Then make a walk way all the way around. Maybe with a larger space hanging part way over the lower enclosure.

{shudder...}

 

[wellington]

{shudder...}

Not much difference then a ramp down to their night box or burrow.
Going up or down a hill in the wild.
Better to have a second level if that's all someone can do then too small an enclosure.
If they were such a problem, they wouldn't use them.

 

[TammyJ]

I tend to agree with what Tom said but will go even further if I may. I get the feeling of claustrophobia when looking at a two storey tortoise enclosure too, unless it's a HUGE enclosure with just one little section raised. And even so, I can't help but imagine being a tortoise and trying to deal with suddenly not quite knowing where I am or how I got up there, then taking a plunge off the top or side and landing on my back and trying to right myself...ugh.
And don't give me the old argument "...but it happens in the WILD." Sure it does, but we don't have to let it happen to our pets in captivity. Captivity can be a lot more tolerable with lots of wide open space. If I was in prison, I would rather have twenty square feet of flat space than ten up and ten down. Just my point of view. Lastly, being a responsible pet owner is preparing to keep your pet knowing how much space he will need to be comfortable and healthy.

 

[dew]

I tend to agree with what Tom said but will go even further if I may. I get the feeling of claustrophobia when looking at a two storey tortoise enclosure too, unless it's a HUGE enclosure with just one little section raised. And even so, I can't help but imagine being a tortoise and trying to deal with suddenly not quite knowing where I am or how I got up there, then taking a plunge off the top or side and landing on my back and trying to right myself...ugh.
And don't give me the old argument "...but it happens in the WILD." Sure it does, but we don't have to let it happen to our pets in captivity. Captivity can be a lot more tolerable with lots of wide open space. If I was in prison, I would rather have twenty square feet of flat space than ten up and ten down. Just my point of view. Lastly, being a responsible pet owner is preparing to keep your pet knowing how much space he will need to be comfortable and healthy.

By 2nd level I do not mean a complete top as in the complete floor space over it. I mean a 2-3 foot ledge. I am thinking of trying the ramps and if the tortoise seems unsure or uneasy I will remove them and repurpose the ledge as a hide

 

[wellington]

I tend to agree with what Tom said but will go even further if I may. I get the feeling of claustrophobia when looking at a two storey tortoise enclosure too, unless it's a HUGE enclosure with just one little section raised. And even so, I can't help but imagine being a tortoise and trying to deal with suddenly not quite knowing where I am or how I got up there, then taking a plunge off the top or side and landing on my back and trying to right myself...ugh.
And don't give me the old argument "...but it happens in the WILD." Sure it does, but we don't have to let it happen to our pets in captivity. Captivity can be a lot more tolerable with lots of wide open space. If I was in prison, I would rather have twenty square feet of flat space than ten up and ten down. Just my point of view. Lastly, being a responsible pet owner is preparing to keep your pet knowing how much space he will need to be comfortable and healthy.

Usually a side is put up so they can't take a dive off.
Being claustrophobic is a human thing not a tortoise thing and shouldn't be a reason for someone to not add or recommend a second level.
Giving choices that can be safe, to someone that either needs less expensive ideas or a way to add room but can't go out is more helpful then placing a human condition on the situation.
I totally disagree with both you and Tom. If a second level is needed, by all means it should be added.
If ramps are so bad, then no one should be letting their tortoises burrow or putting night boxes under ground.

 

[TammyJ]

One of the reasons I love this site - differences of opinion being expressed freely!

 

[wellington]

One of the reasons I love this site - differences of opinion being expressed freely!

What's funny is I am claustrophobic, some what bad, and it doesn't bother me lol. Maybe I'm not as bad as I thought

 

[Tom]

If ramps are so bad, then no one should be letting their tortoises burrow or putting night boxes under ground.

No one said ramps are bad. I said I don't like multi-story tortoise enclosures, based purely on feelings and preferences. Never said anything about ramps.

 

[wellington]

No one said ramps are bad. I said I don't like multi-story tortoise enclosures, based purely on feelings and preferences. Never said anything about ramps.

You are correct, you didn't mention ramps, but the following is what made me include the ramps.
(Tortoises are not arboreal and going up and down levels for them just seems weird to me. They walk on flat earth. Sure there may be drop offs and cliffs in the wild, but most of their lives are spent on one plane)

 

[dew]

You are correct, you didn't mention ramps, but the following is what made me include the ramps.
(Tortoises are not arboreal and going up and down levels for them just seems weird to me. They walk on flat earth. Sure there may be drop offs and cliffs in the wild, but most of their lives are spent on one plane)

Google says they live in rocky areas with elevations of almost 7000 feet. They obviously do not climb as much as geckos or something similar. But they do not live in flag desolate savannahs

 

[TammyJ]

Google says they live in rocky areas with elevations of almost 7000 feet. They obviously do not climb as much as geckos or something similar. But they do not live in flag desolate savannahs

Actually, tortoises live in many different habitats depending on the species.