Adopted a sicko!

[Larrymeister]

Right, our tortoise was adopted from someone who hadn't looked after him well. I can't say we're experts, but we're trying to make him better under the advice of the vet, but I keep worrying! He is pyramiding with a soft shell and has just had his beak and claws trimmed. He doesn't eat much at the moment. If I tell you how we keep him, could you let me know what's good and what I could be doing better?

I live in the UK and Larry lives in a rabbit cage in the conservatory with a UV light, basking lamp, hay, a hidey bit, a cuttlefish, a food bowl and a water bowl - soon to be an outdoor enclosure when he's stronger. He's a 6 yr old Greek Spurred.

My timetable is below, but I think the basking lamp is timed wrong. He doesn't eat much in the morning and he tends to only start eating about 25 minutes after I put him out, which is too long on a half hour lunch!

I need him to eat more and could do with ideas on foods to wear his beak down as he doesn't seem to touch his carrot. I put him out so much because he grazes more than he eats out of his foodbowl. The vet told us to bathe him twice a day as he doesn't use his waterbowl either.

07:00 Get up - Put on lawn in playpen
07:30 Bathe in old washing up bowl with warm water at a slight angle (the tortoise, not me!)
07:50 Dried off and back in cage
08:00 Fresh water in shallow dish
Weeds, carrot, petshop tortoise pellets and calcium powder in food bowl
UV light on
08:40 I go to work
12:45 Go home - Put on lawn in playpen
13:10 Larry starts eating!
13:14 Whole dandelion in foodbowl, with morning food
13:15 I go back to work
17:50 Home from work - Put on lawn in playpen
17:50 Empty foodbowl
19:00 Bathe in old washing up bowl with warm water at a slight angle
19:20 Basking lamp on
21:00 UV light and basking lamp off

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Larry:

You've done a wonderful thing taking in this sick tortoise. And you have your work cut out for you in getting him well. I know its hard for you because you have to go to work, but it looks to me like the tortoise is going to be much better off outside where he an eat anytime he wants to. So as soon as you can, get that outdoor habitat set up. Funny that he'll eat grass after living like he was living in his previous home. Do you know what they used to feed him? Sometimes tortoises don't recognize "the good stuff" as food and you have to feed them what they're used to.

 

[Stephanie Logan]

Congratulations on your new pet!

You sound like a conscientious guy who wants to do right by his tortoise...you will get all kinds of good advice here! You may want to read through threads on the Greek Geeks section, also "Enclosures" and "Food and Diet", so you'll have ideas and photos to help get your guy set up in the best microclimate you can build.

I am not an expert, but I have learned on this forum that tortoises must be warm in order to digest food, so keep those lights on all day and he can go under them or not at will. I've read that tortoises have to have an internal temperature of 85 degrees Farenheit in order to initiate digestion.

Good luck and post some photos of your Chelonian friend soon! http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-5245.html

 

[Larrymeister]

He was eating oranges and lettuce. I really can't be angry with them, they were told when they bought him he could eat anything fruit n veg wise and all he would eat was lettuce and orange, so it became a theme.

I read an article on shelledwarriors that tortoises can get addicted to bad foods and refuse to eat anything else, so I guess this non-eating is the stubborn reaction to new food?

Outdoor run will be put in if the vet gives the all-clear at the weekend.

Any clues on basking lamp times? We think if we put it on for an hour just before lunchtime and before I get home in the evening it will stimulate his appetite?

 

[Yvonne G]

In a way, his old diet is sort of a blessing because oranges have a strong smell. So here's what to try: Get some dark, leafy greens (escarole, endive, turnip greens, collard greens), doesn't have to be many different kinds, just start with one or two. Chop them up (once he's eating the good stuff you don't have to chop any more, but to get him started, chop) in small pieces and put it in a bowl. Then squeeze orange juice over them and toss to cover all the pieces with orange juice. Place the greens at the feeding station and squeeze more orange juice over the top. Feed him this way for a week. Then on the second week, don't add quite so much orange juice. If he won't eat you know that you didn't put enough juice. You continue in this way, slowly decreasing the amount of orange juice until he'll eat the greens without the juice. It may take quite a long time. I had one that it took a year to finally wean them off the bad diet. So be patient. It will happen!! And good luck to you. I'd love to hear a success story about this tortoise.

---

There's no reason not to run the light all day. I turn mine (T-Rex 100 watt UV/heat spot) at about 7am and off around 7pm every day. The tortoises come out and eat and bask, then go back under the shelter (away from the light).

 

[Larrymeister]

Thanks - I will try the orange juice thing...no idea where I get those types of leafy greens! Trip to the farm shop tomorrow to beg for some scraps methinks.

I was just making him go cold turkey. He seems to be in a right mood today - he attacked a dandelion but I think only because it twanged him in the face when he took his foot off it!

One other question - it's really warm in my conservatory. I put my hand under where his basking lamp is and there was no discernible difference in temperature. I don't know how to make this work in the rabbit hutch setup!

 

[stells]

I wouldn't try the orange juice thing... with that i would go cold turkey... oranges and any other citrus fruits really aren't good for tortoises...

If he is also soft i would cut back on the Dandelions... and the carrots... and anything else moderate to high in Oxalates... they are calcium binders and will make the calcium unusable to the tortoise... what are you supplimenting with... are you using a suppliment with D3??

There are plenty of other weeds about right now... Plantains are coming up along with speedwell... deadnettle... jack by the hedge... sowthistle... you can also buy Florette crispy salad bags from the suppermarket... these are good... also Romaine lettuce... most tortoises won't refuse cucumber... if you want to try with this and rub over foodstuffs that might just tempt him....

I would get an outside enclosure made ASAP... which is secure enough for him to go out as much as possible on warm days and secure enough for him to stay in while you are at work...

What temps are you getting under the basking spot and in the conservatory?

 

[Larrymeister]

Woah...confused...I keep reading lettuce and cucumber has no nutritional value? If he grazes in the garden he will pick at dandelions and grass but he barely eats in his cage.

In his cage I keep it topped up with fresh dandelions, nettle (is this the same as "deadnettle"?) carrot and got some pansies planted in there so they are always fresh. I put calcium powder on the picked bits but I pretty much chuck it all out every night (

How is this going to be different if he's outside? I heard I can buy seedpackets specifically to grow a tortoise garden?

I forgot to buy a thermometer to check the temps...nice and warm degrees, not stiflingly hot but you have to take your jumper off. Put my hand under the lamp and I can't tell if it's warmer or my brain is just telling me it is cos I think it should be...

 

[egyptiandan]

Your best bet for UVB light would be a combined bulb (Mercury Vapor Bulb or MVB). This provides both heat and UVB. If you can't tell if it's warm under the hotspot, than it isn't warm. He needs to be warm (like Yvonne and Stephanie have already said) to get going and want to eat and digest his food. Your lights should be on 12 to 16 hours a day.
But you really need to get calcium/phosphorus/vitamin D3 into him. You need to find Avipro plus for vitamins (D3 included) and good bacteria. It's a powder you mix in the soaking water. You should also be able to get a liquid calcium from a vet that you can also put in the water.

Danny

 

[bikerchicspain]

Iam not sure what temps you have back in the UK at the moment but i imagine its not that warm,so i would dry him of after bathing before putting him outside, This would help him in stress levels if hes coming from a nice warm bath to cold air. I may be wrong,just my h.o.

 

[Larrymeister]

He's outside THEN in for a bath. Is this wrong? Does the warm water stimulate his appetite?

Got a thermometer last night. It was 20degC ambient at 19:00, 23degC under his basking lamp and 18degC in his hide. At 07:00 it was 8degC ambient. I put on his basking lamp, light and the radiator and by 08:00 it was 10degC and 22degC under his basking lamp.

Larry was just making a break from the hotspot when I left at 08:45! He will probably spend all day in his hide like the miserable bugger he is. He's coming into the office tomorrow so I can watch what he gets up to during the day.

 

[stells]

Thats to cool.... you need a basking spot of 30-32 C... night i wouldn't let the ambient go under 16 C... you also shouldn't have your basking light on at night time....

 

[Larrymeister]

I lowered the basking light and the temps are getting better, 27 C (getting close). I put it on at 7am and turn it off at 9pm. Am also now leaving a heater on overnight because I left it on by accident last night and he ate like a trooper today!

I have to say he is eating much better, but will still only eat when he's out on the lawn (lots of grass, a few dandelion leaves and pansies) and not out of his food bowl, making it hard to get the calcium powder into him. I tried tricking him with a yummy piece of cucumber with it on, but he's not having it!

He did a poo last night while my friend was round and she thought I was mental for being REALLY excited about it. 1 poo a week on average - well, at least he isn't a trouble to clean out!

I am so pleased with him I keep calling him a "good boy" in a tone of voice as if he's a dog and knows what I am talking about!

 

[Larrymeister]

Quick update - Larry went to the vets and is actually a girl! Now named Penny )

Doing MUCH better - putting on weight and starting to form muscles. I'm so proud of her )

 

[Meg90]

Can you post some pictures?

 

[Larrymeister]

Not right now, I have no internet at home to get the pictures off my laptop and I'm not allowed to upload the software to do it at work ( Couple of weeks and I should be sorted.

New house, new hedgehog, new tortoise and a BIG exhibition to organise all in one month! I'm so stressed! I just want to get Penny out in the garden but there's always something in the way! Parents turning up, Brownies on a Monday, softball on a Tuesday, neglected boyfriends to take to Orange Wednesdays, friends coming for dinner on Fridays, weddings at weekends...she'll have hibernated by the time I get her outdoor run built!