Advice on Russian Tortoise Well-Being and Environment

[lauraberg28]

Hello! I will be so incredibly grateful to any tortoise owners and experts that can weigh in on this issue. I am the caretaker of a 19 or 20-ish-year-old Russian Tortoise. Stanley is a female Russian that was named by the young children at my early childhood center thinking she was a boy before they knew that bigger Russians were actually female. Before I took over as a primary teacher in my classroom Stanley had subpar care at best- when the two Russians we have at our school were initially taken into our care they were residing together and did NOT get along. After that realization, the two were separated and Stanley was housed in a too-small aquarium on a table in a toddler classroom (which had been used to house the two tortoises together initially). Ever since then, I have moved Stanely into a large bin (which is still not big enough but better than the aquarium which can cause overheating and confusion) and over the Christmas break I took her home to my house.

It is now mid-February and Stanley is still at my house. It is so much work and stress for the tortoise to move back and forth! I have heavily considered talking to my boss and offering to buy Stanley from my school, however, this weekend I am adopting a cat which has made the issue more complicated. I have read on this website that cats can cohabitate with tortoises if the situation is handled correctly; though at first, I would want to somehow cover Stanley’s bin to protect her until I better understand how this relationship could go. I am looking for advice on whether Stanley should stay at my home, which is less overwhelming for me as she adds to the work I have to do at my job, or if I should bring her back.

What makes this complicated is that I am being pressured on both sides of the situation. My coworkers are fine if she doesn’t come back. I love having her and my roommate does as well (and there's the risk of Salmonella). I have done basically ALL of the work for this tort and love her dearly; I have even financially taken on this tortoise and paid for a lot of her care. I have read that toddlers and tortoises do NOT mix (duh) and should be kept separate because of the possibility of stressing out the tortoise. I have not talked to my boss about this as it makes me anxious to face all of the different opinions of people without knowing what to do. So, I guess I’m wondering what other people think is the best situation for my dear Stanley. Does she go back to the chaotic classroom where kiddos throw toys into her bin, kick the side of it, and scream often, but where she ultimately came from? Or do I keep her home where I feel SO much better about her well-being and with the person who is her caretaker anyway? To make it a little more complicated, the cat is being thrown into the situation this weekend. Does anybody have any thoughts for me? There are a few more details that make this situation complicated so feel free to ask questions and I can answer them below. THANK YOU SO MUCH!

 

[Grace-Sophia]

Hello! I will be so incredibly grateful to any tortoise owners and experts that can weigh in on this issue. I am the caretaker of a 19 or 20-ish-year-old Russian Tortoise. Stanley is a female Russian that was named by the young children at my early childhood center thinking she was a boy before they knew that bigger Russians were actually female. Before I took over as a primary teacher in my classroom Stanley had subpar care at best- when the two Russians we have at our school were initially taken into our care they were residing together and did NOT get along. After that realization, the two were separated and Stanley was housed in a too-small aquarium on a table in a toddler classroom (which had been used to house the two tortoises together initially). Ever since then, I have moved Stanely into a large bin (which is still not big enough but better than the aquarium which can cause overheating and confusion) and over the Christmas break I took her home to my house.

It is now mid-February and Stanley is still at my house. It is so much work and stress for the tortoise to move back and forth! I have heavily considered talking to my boss and offering to buy Stanley from my school, however, this weekend I am adopting a cat which has made the issue more complicated. I have read on this website that cats can cohabitate with tortoises if the situation is handled correctly; though at first, I would want to somehow cover Stanley’s bin to protect her until I better understand how this relationship could go. I am looking for advice on whether Stanley should stay at my home, which is less overwhelming for me as she adds to the work I have to do at my job, or if I should bring her back.

What makes this complicated is that I am being pressured on both sides of the situation. My coworkers are fine if she doesn’t come back. I love having her and my roommate does as well (and there's the risk of Salmonella). I have done basically ALL of the work for this tort and love her dearly; I have even financially taken on this tortoise and paid for a lot of her care. I have read that toddlers and tortoises do NOT mix (duh) and should be kept separate because of the possibility of stressing out the tortoise. I have not talked to my boss about this as it makes me anxious to face all of the different opinions of people without knowing what to do. So, I guess I’m wondering what other people think is the best situation for my dear Stanley. Does she go back to the chaotic classroom where kiddos throw toys into her bin, kick the side of it, and scream often, but where she ultimately came from? Or do I keep her home where I feel SO much better about her well-being and with the person who is her caretaker anyway? To make it a little more complicated, the cat is being thrown into the situation this weekend. Does anybody have any thoughts for me? There are a few more details that make this situation complicated so feel free to ask questions and I can answer them below. THANK YOU SO MUCH!

I believe the thing to take into account here is what is very best for the tortoise. I wouldn't worry so much about what the school may think, or even your students, you can always bring photos and videos of Stanley to school and they can make her little "crafts" at school that you can show Stanley when you arrive home. As far as the well being of the tortoise I do think that its is very best for her to stay in a permeate location at your residence. @Tom has the best care sheet for a Russian and im certain he will be along soon. Stanley needs a larger enclosure other than a storage container or tank, it would be best if you can build a large enclosure for her as she is apparently a larger tortoise. I too am speaking from experience, I also have a Russian tortoise that is almost 20 years old, his name is Felix and he too spent many years at a middle school in too small of a box. He is now with me as I have adopted him from my school and he is permanently at my home in a large enclosure with proper lighting, diet and exercise. After Felix got out of the school system he is doing fantastic, enjoying his retirement and loving living outside in the summer time. I still do however take photos and videos of him to send to the teacher who owned him, she is so glad to hear that he is doing wonderful. But yes, what you assumed, what is best for Stanley is for her to have a proper, permenent setup to enjoy her retirement as a 20 year old tortoise!



Im also quite sure that Stanley could use a bit of fixing up like Felix did, a nice beak and nail trim. Please don't come at me experienced keepers, this was after I adopted him when he needed a nice "spa day"! He is now a handsome boy with a fresh cut, ill post another photo later! Felix's beak was so overgrown when I received him, it goes to show that a class room is most likely not the best place for a tortoise for a long period of time. I do occasionally take Felix back to the middle school for short (few hour) visits and "teaching time" and then he comes back home to his cozy bed!

 

[SinLA]

As someone who works for schools, I unequally believe animals in classrooms are usually (not always, but usually) terrible situations for the animals and rarely beneficial to the students. They don't actually LEARN appropriate care, and they often learn bad care under the guise of "good teaching" and just perpetuate the issues. They are basically just living "toys" there to entertain the kids. Its not good for anyone...

 

[Tom]

Hello! I will be so incredibly grateful to any tortoise owners and experts that can weigh in on this issue. I am the caretaker of a 19 or 20-ish-year-old Russian Tortoise. Stanley is a female Russian that was named by the young children at my early childhood center thinking she was a boy before they knew that bigger Russians were actually female. Before I took over as a primary teacher in my classroom Stanley had subpar care at best- when the two Russians we have at our school were initially taken into our care they were residing together and did NOT get along. After that realization, the two were separated and Stanley was housed in a too-small aquarium on a table in a toddler classroom (which had been used to house the two tortoises together initially). Ever since then, I have moved Stanely into a large bin (which is still not big enough but better than the aquarium which can cause overheating and confusion) and over the Christmas break I took her home to my house.

It is now mid-February and Stanley is still at my house. It is so much work and stress for the tortoise to move back and forth! I have heavily considered talking to my boss and offering to buy Stanley from my school, however, this weekend I am adopting a cat which has made the issue more complicated. I have read on this website that cats can cohabitate with tortoises if the situation is handled correctly; though at first, I would want to somehow cover Stanley’s bin to protect her until I better understand how this relationship could go. I am looking for advice on whether Stanley should stay at my home, which is less overwhelming for me as she adds to the work I have to do at my job, or if I should bring her back.

What makes this complicated is that I am being pressured on both sides of the situation. My coworkers are fine if she doesn’t come back. I love having her and my roommate does as well (and there's the risk of Salmonella). I have done basically ALL of the work for this tort and love her dearly; I have even financially taken on this tortoise and paid for a lot of her care. I have read that toddlers and tortoises do NOT mix (duh) and should be kept separate because of the possibility of stressing out the tortoise. I have not talked to my boss about this as it makes me anxious to face all of the different opinions of people without knowing what to do. So, I guess I’m wondering what other people think is the best situation for my dear Stanley. Does she go back to the chaotic classroom where kiddos throw toys into her bin, kick the side of it, and scream often, but where she ultimately came from? Or do I keep her home where I feel SO much better about her well-being and with the person who is her caretaker anyway? To make it a little more complicated, the cat is being thrown into the situation this weekend. Does anybody have any thoughts for me? There are a few more details that make this situation complicated so feel free to ask questions and I can answer them below. THANK YOU SO MUCH!

Hello and welcome!

I think it is wonderful that you have taken such an interest in improving this tortoise's life, and I hope we can help you.

The bit about aquariums and glass overheating and causing confusion is a big long-standing myth. Glass aquariums are better for tortoises for the very reasons that "they" mistakenly say they are bad. The problem with glass tanks is that they are too small for anything but babies. If you had a custom built 4x8 foot glass tank, it could make a fine tortoise enclosure with the right heating and lighting.

This leads us to the biggest point to understand. It is wonderful that you took the time to do research and learn what this tortoise needs, but as you are probably realizing, there is all sorts of contradictory and just plain wrong info that has been circulating for decades. I will link threads at the end of this post that will catch you more up to speed on this concept.

With the proper housing and procedures, I am all for kids getting to have a beloved classroom pet to experience and learn about. The problem is that this is seldom done with even remotely correct housing and care. If you can make it happen in the classroom, then all the activity can be desensitizing and even enriching for some tortoises some of the time. Other tortoises might be more shy and reclusive and not like the activity. You'll have to watch the tortoise and decide. If the tortoise is active, eating, basking and behaving normally, then it is probably fine will all of the kids coming and going. If the tortoise hides all day every day, refuses to eat, and runs from people, then adjustments may be in order.

Salmonella is everywhere. Tortoises do not pose any more of a salmonella risk than your cell phone or a chicken tender. People (including kids) should always wash hands after handling ANY animal, but if salmonella were a problem with tortoises, I am quite certain my whole family would have succumbed to it by now. My daughter has been touching tortoises since before she could walk. My wife, co-workers, friends, my mother, and my now almost 16 year old daughter, have all been handling and helping me care for thousands of tortoises over all these years, and not a one of us has ever had a bout with salmonella. A very small number of salmonella cases were seen in the late 60's with small aquatic turtles, but cases involving tortoises are exceedingly rare. We live in a country will 350 million people and millions of pet tortoises, yet I have never seen a single case of salmonella traced back to a tortoise. I did have a family member nearly die from eating an egg-salad sandwich that he'd left on his dashboard for too long, but that was botulism, not salmonella...

In the case of the classroom and in the case of your incoming new cat, a large closed chamber solves these problems. The tortoise will be protected, contained, and temperature and humidity maintenance become simple, efficient and easy.

Start with these two threads, and you will have a much better handle on the correct care info:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[TammyJ]

Welcome and I wish you and Stanley a long and happy relationship. Would love to see some pictures of Stanley.

 

[Lyn W]

Hi and welcome,
Stanley has found a great friend in you and if you follow the advice in Tom's up to date care threads he will be much happier and healthier. There are lots of members with cats but a few simple precautions can reduce any risks. Good luck to you both and don't be afraid to ask as many questions as you like.

 

[Grace-Sophia]

Hello and welcome!

I think it is wonderful that you have taken such an interest in improving this tortoise's life, and I hope we can help you.

The bit about aquariums and glass overheating and causing confusion is a big long-standing myth. Glass aquariums are better for tortoises for the very reasons that "they" mistakenly say they are bad. The problem with glass tanks is that they are too small for anything but babies. If you had a custom built 4x8 foot glass tank, it could make a fine tortoise enclosure with the right heating and lighting.

This leads us to the biggest point to understand. It is wonderful that you took the time to do research and learn what this tortoise needs, but as you are probably realizing, there is all sorts of contradictory and just plain wrong info that has been circulating for decades. I will link threads at the end of this post that will catch you more up to speed on this concept.

With the proper housing and procedures, I am all for kids getting to have a beloved classroom pet to experience and learn about. The problem is that this is seldom done with even remotely correct housing and care. If you can make it happen in the classroom, then all the activity can be desensitizing and even enriching for some tortoises some of the time. Other tortoises might be more shy and reclusive and not like the activity. You'll have to watch the tortoise and decide. If the tortoise is active, eating, basking and behaving normally, then it is probably fine will all of the kids coming and going. If the tortoise hides all day every day, refuses to eat, and runs from people, then adjustments may be in order.

Salmonella is everywhere. Tortoises do not pose any more of a salmonella risk than your cell phone or a chicken tender. People (including kids) should always wash hands after handling ANY animal, but if salmonella were a problem with tortoises, I am quite certain my whole family would have succumbed to it by now. My daughter has been touching tortoises since before she could walk. My wife, co-workers, friends, my mother, and my now almost 16 year old daughter, have all been handling and helping me care for thousands of tortoises over all these years, and not a one of us has ever had a bout with salmonella. A very small number of salmonella cases were seen in the late 60's with small aquatic turtles, but cases involving tortoises are exceedingly rare. We live in a country will 350 million people and millions of pet tortoises, yet I have never seen a single case of salmonella traced back to a tortoise. I did have a family member nearly die from eating an egg-salad sandwich that he'd left on his dashboard for too long, but that was botulism, not salmonella...

In the case of the classroom and in the case of your incoming new cat, a large closed chamber solves these problems. The tortoise will be protected, contained, and temperature and humidity maintenance become simple, efficient and easy.

Start with these two threads, and you will have a much better handle on the correct care info:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

ahhh, there they are!

 

[SuzanneZ]

Hello! I will be so incredibly grateful to any tortoise owners and experts that can weigh in on this issue. I am the caretaker of a 19 or 20-ish-year-old Russian Tortoise. Stanley is a female Russian that was named by the young children at my early childhood center thinking she was a boy before they knew that bigger Russians were actually female. Before I took over as a primary teacher in my classroom Stanley had subpar care at best- when the two Russians we have at our school were initially taken into our care they were residing together and did NOT get along. After that realization, the two were separated and Stanley was housed in a too-small aquarium on a table in a toddler classroom (which had been used to house the two tortoises together initially). Ever since then, I have moved Stanely into a large bin (which is still not big enough but better than the aquarium which can cause overheating and confusion) and over the Christmas break I took her home to my house.

It is now mid-February and Stanley is still at my house. It is so much work and stress for the tortoise to move back and forth! I have heavily considered talking to my boss and offering to buy Stanley from my school, however, this weekend I am adopting a cat which has made the issue more complicated. I have read on this website that cats can cohabitate with tortoises if the situation is handled correctly; though at first, I would want to somehow cover Stanley’s bin to protect her until I better understand how this relationship could go. I am looking for advice on whether Stanley should stay at my home, which is less overwhelming for me as she adds to the work I have to do at my job, or if I should bring her back.

What makes this complicated is that I am being pressured on both sides of the situation. My coworkers are fine if she doesn’t come back. I love having her and my roommate does as well (and there's the risk of Salmonella). I have done basically ALL of the work for this tort and love her dearly; I have even financially taken on this tortoise and paid for a lot of her care. I have read that toddlers and tortoises do NOT mix (duh) and should be kept separate because of the possibility of stressing out the tortoise. I have not talked to my boss about this as it makes me anxious to face all of the different opinions of people without knowing what to do. So, I guess I’m wondering what other people think is the best situation for my dear Stanley. Does she go back to the chaotic classroom where kiddos throw toys into her bin, kick the side of it, and scream often, but where she ultimately came from? Or do I keep her home where I feel SO much better about her well-being and with the person who is her caretaker anyway? To make it a little more complicated, the cat is being thrown into the situation this weekend. Does anybody have any thoughts for me? There are a few more details that make this situation complicated so feel free to ask questions and I can answer them below. THANK YOU SO MUCH!

I hope you lived and Stanley and kitty worked out. I can't see why it wouldn't work.