Ants vs Scorpions

[ReptileMommax3]

I just moved into a new house. Luckily, no sign of scorpions at this time (we have had a close call in the past that resulted in an emergency vet visit), however...we have ants. Some small black ones, and a large colony of large black ones. Couldn't even begin to guess at species. I live in Arizona. They seem okay; they aren't aggressive and biting, and they don't seem interested in the food I leave out for the kids at breakfast and dinner. That said, my teenager has no concept of them, and keeps sitting on or too close to their colony, and they swarm her. She panics, they start biting, and she panics more, running across the yard and jerking maniacally to get them off. I have to keep a very close on eye on her (it's happened 3 times in the week we have been here) and run out to hose them off. Tonight, they were extra clingy, one of them on her eyeball, and it took torturous minutes of a disgruntled baby to dislodge it.

Here is my question: Should I worry? The biting sucks, obviously, but they don't seem to be able to hurt her the way a scorpion could literally take her life. And if I do something about them, how do I do so safely with two tortoises roaming and eating everything? Also, could this large colony be why I don't have scorpions? What if I remove them and scorpions move in? That's not a solution I want.

 

[KarenSoCal]

I've had experience with ants also, and I would be very concerned if they were in my tort's enclosure.

I used to have a CA Desert tortoise named Chug. One day I was sitting in his enclosure while he patrolled his territory, and he suddenly started running as fast as his little legs would take him. I jumped up and grabbed him, and he was literally covered by ants that were biting him everywhere. I got him under the hose, washed them all off, and put him in the house for safety.

Those ants were vicious, as they were indeed fire ants and attacked me as soon as I approached their mound. They rapidly swarmed up my legs, biting all the way.

I tell you this to illustrate the violence an ant swarm can be, fire ants or not. The ants you have in the yard could possibly swarm and attack your torts. Maybe one bite, or 4-5 bites didn't hurt your tort, but hundreds of them might kill him. I can't imagine being a tortoise and having them biting all over me. I have been bitten by non-fire ants, and it can be truly painful.

I've never had this experience, but I have heard of ants munching on brumating torts and eating large portions of their "arms" and legs. I would eradicate them.

To do that, you have to find out what attracts them. Put a bottle cap of sugar water or honey on the ground and see if they have any interest in it. If not, maybe try a bit of lunch meat. When you know what they like, you can find a proper poison that will kill them. Sometimes for sweet-eating ants, you can use ant "hotels". Put a little bait on the inside of a glass jar along with the "hotel". Put the lid on the jar and punch holes in the lid and put it on its side on the ground. Put a dab of bait on the ground just outside the lid. You can make a few of these and place them wherever needed. The poison stays in the jar, and if a tort rolls it around a bit no harm done.

As for the scorpions, I don't know if ants help with them. I had to chuckle about your comment of needing an emergency vet...I was stung and ended up in Urgent Care with a temp of 102°F, on 3 different antibiotics, and after my CT scan, an incision and packing into a large abscess -like pouch in my abdomen.

I have no idea if removing ants brings scorpions. You can try to attract roadrunners to eat them. When I did this process scorpions did not come visiting in larger numbers than before. And my sting happened the year before I got a tortoise

I hope this will be helpful. Somebody else will probably come by and have another suggestion.

 

[wellington]

You might want to try food grade diatomaceous earth to see if that will rid the yard of them. I would block off a section and treat that area. When it seems clear of the majority of ants, then wash/spray with hose the diatomaceous down and put tortoises in that area while you treat the other area.
I also have never seen on here any ant bother a tortoise or any other animal except for fire ants.

 

[Neal]

The biggest problem I have with our ants is that they swarm the tortoises food, making it impossible to eat. I've tried everything to get rid of them from diatomaceous earth, chalk and other homemade concoctions but none of that has worked for me. The most effective way of getting rid of them I have found are baits, but I would only go this route if I felt the ant population was getting out of hand or if they decided to make their home too close to where the tortoises like to hang out or eat. There is a bit of risk that the ants carry the bait on the tortoises food after they pick it up, so if you decide try this I would recommend an abundance of caution. I will usually block off as much of the area as I can where the ants are from the tortoises, then place the bait close by the ant hole. They're usually gone within a few days, and I'll usually keep the area blocked off until I feel it's safe enough for the tortoises to return.

Scorpions will kill tortoises, but it is rare. I am fortunate enough to not have any large populations on my property...at least, not that I have seen yet. I look for them regularly, but otherwise I make zero effort to protect my tortoises from scorpions. If you have a scorpion problem then you may need to talk with an exterminator about the best options for you and safe for your tortoises.

 

[144 Grandpa Turtle]

This works great on ants as long as it says food grade it doesn't hurt kids, animals or tortoises

 

[ReptileMommax3]

You might want to try food grade diatomaceous earth to see if that will rid the yard of them. I would block off a section and treat that area. When it seems clear of the majority of ants, then wash/spray with hose the diatomaceous down and put tortoises in that area while you treat the other area.
I also have never seen on here any ant bother a tortoise or any other animal except for fire ants.

I happened to have DE and tried that, and it didn't do a damn thing! I have seen other people suggest it on other threads, but I guess I have the only ants who don't like it.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

I happened to have DE and tried that, and it didn't do a damn thing! I have seen other people suggest it on other threads, but I guess I have the only ants who don't like it.

I think @Tom didn't have succes with it either.

 

[wellington]

I happened to have DE and tried that, and it didn't do a damn thing! I have seen other people suggest it on other threads, but I guess I have the only ants who don't like it.

I have seen both. Many that has had luck with it and many that hasn't.

 

[144 Grandpa Turtle]

You can't dump it on the hole you must pour a circle around the hole and if it gets wet you must reapply it

 

[Tom]

I happened to have DE and tried that, and it didn't do a damn thing! I have seen other people suggest it on other threads, but I guess I have the only ants who don't like it.

I've tried different brands and types many times over many years and it does nothing to my ants too. I even tried the pool type. It didn't work any better than the food grade stuff.

Ant attacks are serious. Your tortoise could die weeks after being swarmed like that. Soak every day for a couple of months to flush the system and make sure urates don't form.

Get Terro ant baits and set them around. Those are just boric acid and water, to relatively non-toxic to pets and people. Let the ants swarm it. Don't disturb them or carry it away. Leave it for them to empty it.

On the larger black ants get Amdro Ant Granules. Those are a toxic pesticide so block all access from other pets and tortoises. I have the best results ignoring the directions and poring it right in the hole and making a little mound. They carry it down and then they are gone soon after. I cover the mounds of insecticide with little wire baskets fixed in place with tent states if inside the enclosure. They typically carry it all away within two hours.

 

[ReptileMommax3]

I've tried different brands and types many times over many years and it does nothing to my ants too. I even tried the pool type. It didn't work any better than the food grade stuff.

Ant attacks are serious. Your tortoise could die weeks after being swarmed like that. Soak every day for a couple of months to flush the system and make sure urates don't form.

Get Terro ant baits and set them around. Those are just boric acid and water, to relatively non-toxic to pets and people. Let the ants swarm it. Don't disturb them or carry it away. Leave it for them to empty it.

On the larger black ants get Amdro Ant Granules. Those are a toxic pesticide so block all access from other pets and tortoises. I have the best results ignoring the directions and poring it right in the hole and making a little mound. They carry it down and then they are gone soon after. I cover the mounds of insecticide with little wire baskets fixed in place with tent states if inside the enclosure. They typically carry it all away within two hours.

My local sanctuary recommended the stakes from Spectracide, I got several and put them inside the holes of cinder blocks around the yard where the kids can't get to them, but ants can. Will see how that goes. Will soak the baby, too, thank you.

 

[Tom]

My local sanctuary recommended the stakes from Spectracide, I got several and put them inside the holes of cinder blocks around the yard where the kids can't get to them, but ants can. Will see how that goes. Will soak the baby, too, thank you.

Please report back your results. Always looking for new and better ways to get it done.

 

[Blackdog1714]

maybe buying a hulahoop and zip tie pieces of pool noodles as legs to put around the anthill to alert her visually and physically that they are there.

 

[ReptileMommax3]

maybe buying a hulahoop and zip tie pieces of pool noodles as legs to put around the anthill to alert her visually and physically that they are there.

I would, but there are entrances EVERYWHERE! It's a big yard, and I suspect the colony spans most or all of it.

Also, I have done the poison stakes and the DE, and I swear to god, I have invincible ants! Or...just the smartest ants ever, who know poison when they see it and won't eat it or take it into the colony.

 

[Tom]

I would, but there are entrances EVERYWHERE! It's a big yard, and I suspect the colony spans most or all of it.

Also, I have done the poison stakes and the DE, and I swear to god, I have invincible ants! Or...just the smartest ants ever, who know poison when they see it and won't eat it or take it into the colony.

I've tried the stakes, DE, and lots of other stuff. None of it worked except the two things I've told you here. I'm always looking to learn new ways to control them, but most ways have failed for me.

 

[Fluffy]

Advion Ant Gel is by far the best I've used. I got it from a pest company but it's readily available online. It can be placed in tiny cracks or in a bait box. It's thick enough to stay where you put it. It works within 48 hours. If the colony is large it may take several applications to get them all.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Advion Ant Gel is by far the best I've used. I got it from a pest company but it's readily available online. It can be placed in tiny cracks or in a bait box. It's thick enough to stay where you put it. It works within 48 hours. If the colony is large it may take several applications to get them all.

I had less success with Advion (e.g. small red ants ignored it completely). But Bayer/Envu MaxForce Quantum is a thing (be careful when using it outside: contains imidocloprid, the dreaded systemic pesticide).

 

[Tom]

Advion Ant Gel is by far the best I've used. I got it from a pest company but it's readily available online. It can be placed in tiny cracks or in a bait box. It's thick enough to stay where you put it. It works within 48 hours. If the colony is large it may take several applications to get them all.

Thank you. I'll look for that and give it a try.

 

[Tom]

I had less success with Advion (e.g. small red ants ignored it completely). But Bayer/Envu MaxForce Quantum is a thing (be careful when using it outside: contains imidocloprid, the dreaded systemic pesticide).

I strongly suspect that what works or doesn't work is at least partly due to climate and conditions. The southeast US is very humid with frequent rain and constant moisture. The Southwest US is literally a dry desert. It seems like the food grade DE works in humid climates, but not in dry ones. I suspect the Terro ant baits work so well here because the ants need the moisture even more than the food, where in the Southeast they have water water everywhere and don't care about that aspect.

I see a similar thing with grass seed. People in Florida can just throw handfuls of seed out in an open area and it will all sprout and do fine. Here, if you throw out a handful of grass seed, hordes of little birds will descend upon your offering and remove it for you in minutes. We have to cover it and then water it every hour in hot weather to get it to germinate and sprout. Then, once its growing well, the minute you uncover it, every rabbit and rodent seemingly for miles will come eat it, while an unstoppable parade of gophers destroy it from underground.

 

[Fluffy]

I had less success with Advion (e.g. small red ants ignored it completely). But Bayer/Envu MaxForce Quantum is a thing (be careful when using it outside: contains imidocloprid, the dreaded systemic pesticide).

I know nothing about ants other than I need them gone lol. I had a friend that worked at a pest company. He gave me the Advion but he also told me that certain times of the year and certain locations the ants will not respond well to it and then he uses a pellet in a bait box. I still have the pellets he gave me but I've never had to use them. Again I only know the wife says the ants need to go and I try to make it happen.