Hi, which substrates/beddings are considered to be "good" and which are considered to be "bad"
Do specific species do better on certain substrates?
thx
Do specific species do better on certain substrates?
thx
Beddings...
- Thread starter XxDarkEuphoriaxX
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Depends on the type of tort, age of tort, health of tort, and other factors.
Yes, please be more specific. There is a huge list of supplies etc and it varies from species to species, as well as by age (hatchies cannot be kept on some substances like adults can etc)
i meant as in types of substrates, like pine cedar etc.
I know what you meant. There are several substrates to chose from, it makes a big difference what species. Redfoots cannot be kept on the same things as Greeks etc.
Oh, and just to start with, pine, cedar and fir are all extremely toxic to all tortoises.
Oh, and just to start with, pine, cedar and fir are all extremely toxic to all tortoises.
what about aspen?
M
Maggie Cummings
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A lot of keepers use aspen, but there again it depends on the species. I wouldn't put a desert tort or a Sulcata on aspen.
I personally think that cypress mulch is the best substrate. Pine and ceder are toxic to all chelonia causing blindness and death. You seriously need to avoid them. I found out the hard way and now there's a 4 year old Sulcata who is blind in one eye and with severely diminished sight in the other...because I put him and 2 other yearlings on pine. One died, Tony was blinded and the other was lucky.
I personally think that cypress mulch is the best substrate. Pine and ceder are toxic to all chelonia causing blindness and death. You seriously need to avoid them. I found out the hard way and now there's a 4 year old Sulcata who is blind in one eye and with severely diminished sight in the other...because I put him and 2 other yearlings on pine. One died, Tony was blinded and the other was lucky.
Another one to avoid is the Calci-sand. I know the label says its safe, but it is not safe for tortoises.
For rain forest tortoises (redfoot, yellowfoot, etc.) you can use cypress mulch, orchid bark, clean dirt, sphagnum moss, etc.
For desert-type tortoises you can use the same as above, including aspen. You can moisten the first ones listed, but you can't moisten aspen or hay because it will mold. So if you use aspen, you would provide the sphagnum moss inside the hide and moisten it. I've noticed that quite a few folks here on the forum who keep Greek tortoises swear by aspen bedding.
Yvonne
For rain forest tortoises (redfoot, yellowfoot, etc.) you can use cypress mulch, orchid bark, clean dirt, sphagnum moss, etc.
For desert-type tortoises you can use the same as above, including aspen. You can moisten the first ones listed, but you can't moisten aspen or hay because it will mold. So if you use aspen, you would provide the sphagnum moss inside the hide and moisten it. I've noticed that quite a few folks here on the forum who keep Greek tortoises swear by aspen bedding.
Yvonne
You can also add alfalfa pellets to the bad list.
Another good one is coconut fiber; you can add up to 30% play sand (from the home improvement store; no other kind) if desired for added traction.
But yes, it really depends on species. Some need a lot more humidity than others.
Be careful with substrates that don't clearly list the type of wood. Sometimes they will mix them. You want whatever you buy to be pure.
Another good one is coconut fiber; you can add up to 30% play sand (from the home improvement store; no other kind) if desired for added traction.
But yes, it really depends on species. Some need a lot more humidity than others.
Be careful with substrates that don't clearly list the type of wood. Sometimes they will mix them. You want whatever you buy to be pure.
M
Maggie Cummings
Guest
We automatically say that alfalfa pellets are not a good substrate, and I would mostly agree...but I raised numerous clutches of desert babies on those pellets and to my knowledge none are hurt from them. So while I pretty much wouldn't recommend them, I don't bad mouth them either...
My concern with pellets of anykind are the ability to walk on them. For small torts walking on pellets can be difficult and cause leg problems I tried Criter Country which is pelleted and can be eaten and easily digested and is not high in protein degrades easily sounded pretty much like just what I wanted until I found out it was really difficult for my little ones to walk on. Dirt-plain old clean yard dirt is also a good option.
I had a question about the mulch. I went to the garden store and they had mulch but not cypress mulch. Is there a difference? I got the organic kind and made sure there wasnt any additives. But did I get the bad kind? Is cypress mulch made from a certain type of wood?
Cypress mulch is made from the bark and trimmings from cypress trees. They are non toxic to tortoises also they are not an aromatic oil type tree. Most mulches you can buy at the home improvement stores are made from aromatic oil type trees like pine and cedar. These are extremely toxic especially to little babies.
Yvonne
Yvonne
Another type that may be available in your area is organic hardwood mulch. It is made from "trash" woods such as cottonwood, red maple, and willow. It is usually more humisy then other substrats and available at garden centers and nurseries.
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I have been doing a lot of reading about the different types of substrates lately. I have decided to use eco-earth and playsand mix for my outdoor habitat. However I have always used zoomed repti bark and that is 100% fir.
Now most people will argue that fir is bad, because of it being a conifer type tree. What I don't seem to understand is how in the same sentence people recommend orchid bark. All the orchid bark that I find is made of Fir. How are they different?
Now most people will argue that fir is bad, because of it being a conifer type tree. What I don't seem to understand is how in the same sentence people recommend orchid bark. All the orchid bark that I find is made of Fir. How are they different?
Actually, I think there is a misunderstanding about fir bark. Fir is NOT one of the aromatic oil-type trees like pine, redwood and cedar. Fir is perfectly fine to use. I've used orchid bark for over 30 years on different habitats, mostly for babies, and it has never caused any problems.
Yvonne
Yvonne
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That is what i thought as the zoomed repti bark does not have that smell that pine and other barks do. It lasts a long time as they say you can wash it in hot water to get rid of the mess and then just let it dry out. I am going to stay with the fir bark as it is large enough for the babies to crawl around on and small enough for the larger ones to ingest, although not recommended at all (thats why I have a feeding tile)
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Can someone tell me why Aspen might be bad for desert tortoises?
Someone at the Reptile shop near my house recommended it so I have a bag at home and have used it inside the hide of an outdoor enclosure. In fact I'm letting Penelope sleep outside tonight because it's so hot inside. She digs into it to make the bedding comfortable for herself and seems to have no problem. she might get them all over her but they come off easily.
Someone at the Reptile shop near my house recommended it so I have a bag at home and have used it inside the hide of an outdoor enclosure. In fact I'm letting Penelope sleep outside tonight because it's so hot inside. She digs into it to make the bedding comfortable for herself and seems to have no problem. she might get them all over her but they come off easily.
The only thing I can think of why aspen might be bad is that it's not moist, and many breeds need a moist substrate to prevent pyramiding. Other than that, it's awesome! Safe, relatively cheap (I buy 25 lb bags so my view may be skewed on price), and torts love it. I believe that DTs can be prone to pyramiding, but not one of the worst breeds for it. It may be an option to have aspen primarily and then have a warm humid hide kept of a moist substrate (like sphagnum moss). If the tort is full grown it's not as much of an issue. Also depend on ambient humidity, although substrate humidity is more important.
I would not use it in moist areas however. I would place it in a container (with floor and roof) to keep away from moisture if you choose to use it outdoors. Most of the time you won't need any additional substrate outdoors except maybe some soft organic topsoil.
What did you hear about why it's bad for the DT? I always ask for justification and evidence when someone makes a point.
I would not use it in moist areas however. I would place it in a container (with floor and roof) to keep away from moisture if you choose to use it outdoors. Most of the time you won't need any additional substrate outdoors except maybe some soft organic topsoil.
What did you hear about why it's bad for the DT? I always ask for justification and evidence when someone makes a point.
Aspen's not bad for a desert tortoise. The only thing wrong with it is you can't moisten it or it will mold. And you need a humid hide for the desert tortoise. You can work something out using aspen...a moist sponge glued to the ceiling of the hide, moist sphagnum moss inside the hide, etc.
Yvonne
Yvonne
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