Brought Squirt to vet today. Many conficts with care I read here advice needed

[Thundersnow]

Good afternoon,
Squirt is my 3yr old Indian Star. i had him since he was 2 months old. He has been doing well but things are not right now. He used to eat a variety of lettuces liked cucumber and I offered him grass,clover,dandelion greens and his very favorite was Mazuri soaked tortoise pellets. I opened a new bag of the Mazuri tortoise pellets and it smelled like garlic/onions it was gross. He waned no part of it. I called the company and they said throw it away and sent me a coupon.I reordered a new bag and it had a scent not like the original fruity scent just smelled like feed. He will pick at it but no longer devowers. I mix alfalfa,hay,grass,clover and baby organic lettuce.He will not eat any of the greenery. The only thing he will eat is romaine lettuce. He will not mess with his cuttlebone and the vitamins and calcium powders I bought he totally stopped eating. They expired so I threw them out.
I soak him daily in water thats 90 degrees and his body temp is 85.He started getting his bedding (Zoo Med Eco Earth Coconut Fiber substrate) stuck to his nose which made me suspicious of a respiratory issue.sure enough he had a bubble. Only one bubble in the morning and I soak him and no more bubble. He does start out soaking his eyes closed in a corner of the tub then he starts moving around. Eyes open and awake When it's warm out 80's or more I put in in the yard and he is quite active. I haven't seen a solid poop in a long time.He was pooping nice brown turds then pooped the white urates. Now i have seen nothing. The vet also told me to soak him 2 times weekly.I have been soaking him every day for 20-30 minutes.
I took him to a reptile vet today and he said he must get the vitamins and greens. He also told me to remove all the substrate and put a reptile carpet or paper towels down because the substrate could be moldy and causing his respiratory issue. I see no mold nor smell mold.I do spray the substrate regularly to keep the humidity up.The top of the tank is completely covered by a combination of foil with hole cutouts for heat lamps and incandescent bulb.The other cover is clear mylar. He said the air needs to circulate.I was under the impression every time I open the front of the tank to hydrate the substrate which is 2-3 times daily that would be enough. I also have a uvb/uva tube.I have it at the correct height and the power that was recommended in this group.Can't remember off hand though.
I can't get Squirt to eat anything other than romaine and minimal bites of Mazuri. I am not sure if the vet was correct with what he told be to do.How do I get him to get those vitamins in him if he wont' eat. when he was eating well there were no vitamins. Now he won't eat anything else even when he is outside!!! I threw the vitamins and calcium away they expired and 95% unused.
I trust this group and the advice given to me is not the same what i read here when I first got him. The vet gave me a rereptile recovery packet to mix with water and put on his food.HE WON'T EAT!!!Please advise me if you can.Thank you.

 

[wellington]

You have him in a tank? How big is he, straight length bottom shell head to tail, shell only?
How big is the tank? Mist tanks are to small for any 3 year old.
No, the vet is not correct. They can't live on paper towels unless there is a reason. Coir doesn't mold unless there is left over food or maybe poop that you didn't clean up.
@Tom

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Wellington is correct that the vet hasn’t given you the right advice, they need to be on an appropriate substrate to help maintain humidity and allows them to burrow down to thermoregulate, I am too curious on the size of your tank, looking at the size of the tortoise in the pic(measurements would be good) I can’t imagine any kind of glass tank is big enough. If the substrate is only being sprayed on top, it maybe getting too dry overall, generally I recommend you pour lukewarm water into the concerns, not loads so you end up making mud, but enough to dampen the bottom layer and firmly pack it down by hand, if loose it will also dry out quicker, hope this helps🙂

 

[Tom]

Good afternoon,
Squirt is my 3yr old Indian Star. i had him since he was 2 months old. He has been doing well but things are not right now. He used to eat a variety of lettuces liked cucumber and I offered him grass,clover,dandelion greens and his very favorite was Mazuri soaked tortoise pellets. I opened a new bag of the Mazuri tortoise pellets and it smelled like garlic/onions it was gross. He waned no part of it. I called the company and they said throw it away and sent me a coupon.I reordered a new bag and it had a scent not like the original fruity scent just smelled like feed. He will pick at it but no longer devowers. I mix alfalfa,hay,grass,clover and baby organic lettuce.He will not eat any of the greenery. The only thing he will eat is romaine lettuce. He will not mess with his cuttlebone and the vitamins and calcium powders I bought he totally stopped eating. They expired so I threw them out.
I soak him daily in water thats 90 degrees and his body temp is 85.He started getting his bedding (Zoo Med Eco Earth Coconut Fiber substrate) stuck to his nose which made me suspicious of a respiratory issue.sure enough he had a bubble. Only one bubble in the morning and I soak him and no more bubble. He does start out soaking his eyes closed in a corner of the tub then he starts moving around. Eyes open and awake When it's warm out 80's or more I put in in the yard and he is quite active. I haven't seen a solid poop in a long time.He was pooping nice brown turds then pooped the white urates. Now i have seen nothing. The vet also told me to soak him 2 times weekly.I have been soaking him every day for 20-30 minutes.
I took him to a reptile vet today and he said he must get the vitamins and greens. He also told me to remove all the substrate and put a reptile carpet or paper towels down because the substrate could be moldy and causing his respiratory issue. I see no mold nor smell mold.I do spray the substrate regularly to keep the humidity up.The top of the tank is completely covered by a combination of foil with hole cutouts for heat lamps and incandescent bulb.The other cover is clear mylar. He said the air needs to circulate.I was under the impression every time I open the front of the tank to hydrate the substrate which is 2-3 times daily that would be enough. I also have a uvb/uva tube.I have it at the correct height and the power that was recommended in this group.Can't remember off hand though.
I can't get Squirt to eat anything other than romaine and minimal bites of Mazuri. I am not sure if the vet was correct with what he told be to do.How do I get him to get those vitamins in him if he wont' eat. when he was eating well there were no vitamins. Now he won't eat anything else even when he is outside!!! I threw the vitamins and calcium away they expired and 95% unused.
I trust this group and the advice given to me is not the same what i read here when I first got him. The vet gave me a rereptile recovery packet to mix with water and put on his food.HE WON'T EAT!!!Please advise me if you can.Thank you.

In addition to Barb's questions, what is the ambient temperature in the enclosure day and night?

What is the temperature under the basking lamp?

Are you using indoor UV?

Stars like it HOT. At the first sign of sickness the temp should be upped a bit, unless it was already too high for some odd reason. Daily warm soaks are beneficial and necessary with increased heat.

 

[Thundersnow]

In addition to Barb's questions, what is the ambient temperature in the enclosure day and night?

What is the temperature under the basking lamp?

Are you using indoor UV?

Stars like it HOT. At the first sign of sickness the temp should be upped a bit, unless it was already too high for some odd reason. Daily warm soaks are beneficial and necessary with increased heat.

Basking is 104.Yes using a UV/UBV Night time 88

 

[Thundersnow]

You have him in a tank? How big is he, straight length bottom shell head to tail, shell only?
How big is the tank? Mist tanks are to small for any 3 year old.
No, the vet is not correct. They can't live on paper towels unless there is a reason. Coir doesn't mold unless there is left over food or maybe poop that you didn't clean up.
@Tom

His tank is 24x60 completely enclosed

 

[Thundersnow]

His tank is 24x60 completely enclosed

Squirt is 4"

You have him in a tank? How big is he, straight length bottom shell head to tail, shell only?
How big is the tank? Mist tanks are to small for any 3 year old.
No, the vet is not correct. They can't live on paper towels unless there is a reason. Coir doesn't mold unless there is left over food or maybe poop that you didn't clean up.
@Tom

 

[Thundersnow]

Squirt is 4"

This tank is 24x60 Squirt is 4”

 

[Thundersnow]

 

[Thundersnow]

His tank is 24x60 completely enclosed

Squirt is 4"

Wellington is correct that the vet hasn’t given you the right advice, they need to be on an appropriate substrate to help maintain humidity and allows them to burrow down to thermoregulate, I am too curious on the size of your tank, looking at the size of the tortoise in the pic(measurements would be good) I can’t imagine any kind of glass tank is big enough. If the substrate is only being sprayed on top, it maybe getting too dry overall, generally I recommend you pour lukewarm water into the concerns, not loads so you end up making mud, but enough to dampen the bottom layer and firmly pack it down by hand, if loose it will also dry out quicker, hope this helps🙂

when he is soaking 2 x weekly I churn up the substrate with my hands and pour warm water to get it nice an moist then daily spray the surface layer with water from a spray bottle

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Basking is 104.Yes using a UV/UBV Night time 88

Forgive me, perhaps I’m missing it in the photos, but is it a t5 tube uv you have? Not a compact one?🙂

 

[Thundersnow]

Forgive me, perhaps I’m missing it in the photos, but is it a t5 tube uv you have? Not a compact one?🙂

It's 36" UVA UVB

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

It's 36" UVA UVB

Do you know what brand by any chance?🙂

 

[Thundersnow]

Forgive me, perhaps I’m missing it in the photos, but is it a t5 tube uv you have? Not a compact one?🙂

Forgive me, perhaps I’m missing it in the photos, but is it a t5 tube uv you have? Not a compact one?🙂

Forgive me, perhaps I’m missing it in the photos, but is it a t5 tube uv you have? Not a compact one?🙂

 

[Thundersnow]

Do you know what brand by any chance?🙂

Zoo Med

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Oh I see it now, no worries😊

 

[Thundersnow]

In addition to Barb's questions, what is the ambient temperature in the enclosure day and night?

What is the temperature under the basking lamp?

Are you using indoor UV?

Stars like it HOT. At the first sign of sickness the temp should be upped a bit, unless it was already too high for some odd reason. Daily warm soaks are beneficial and necessary with increased heat.

How do I get this kid to eat? Also the vet said to give him this. I don’t want to give or do anything until I contacted you.

 

[Tom]

I don't see any of the usual problems with your temperatures or care routine, so I don't know what could be wrong.

What size is the tortoise and what are the dimensions of the enclosure?

Did you use coco fiber or coco coir? Fiber is no good because all the stands can cause them to get blocked up. Coir should pass right on through if accidentally ingested.

Here are some possibilities to eliminate:

1. Did he eat something poisonous while outside?
2. Impaction?
3. Have you verified the temperatures at night in the coldest corner farthest from the heat sources?
4. An X-ray can show you if there is a bladder stone, foreign object, or constipation.

Your vet is attempting to address the symptoms, but not the cause of the issue. With the light outside and on top, you have plenty of ventilation. Maybe too much. Having the lights on top like that, instead of inside the closed chamber, causes a chimney effect drawing the warm humid air up and out, replacing it with cooler drier room air.

 

[TammyJ]

Please make sure he has complete darkness at night, warm and humid but no lights. Also, the enclosure looks too bare and featureless. Add some rocks, more hides, another water dish, to make him feel more secure and not so exposed. Soak him every day.

 

[Thundersnow]

I don't see any of the usual problems with your temperatures or care routine, so I don't know what could be wrong.

What size is the tortoise and what are the dimensions of the enclosure?

Did you use coco fiber or coco coir? Fiber is no good because all the stands can cause them to get blocked up. Coir should pass right on through if accidentally ingested.

Here are some possibilities to eliminate:

1. Did he eat something poisonous while outside?
2. Impaction?
3. Have you verified the temperatures at night in the coldest corner farthest from the heat sources?
4. An X-ray can show you if there is a bladder stone, foreign object, or constipation.

Your vet is attempting to address the symptoms, but not the cause of the issue. With the light outside and on top, you have plenty of ventilation. Maybe too much. Having the lights on top like that, instead of inside the closed chamber, causes a chimney effect drawing the warm humid air up and out, replacing it with cooler drier room air.

It’s the coir the tiny stuff. The sides are covered with Mylar where the vents are. It was to chilly. I open the tank doors 2-3 times daily to wet down the coconut coir. I remember you told another member opening to feed and other maintenance is enough for allowing a fresh air in.
He also told me tortoises don’t like being handled. Squirt IMO does. He loves having the rear part of his shell scratched and when I pick him up to soak he seems to enjoy the runs on his head and legs being he stretched out for more. Any other thing he does is sometimes pee and his private comes out. Don’t know if that good or bad.
Please advise on the food. He just now came out to eat romaine. As far as vitamins and calcium he won’t eat at all if I put it in the romaine
The vet told me to give him this.I included a photo. I have a lot of respect and revere what you say. I’m old so things over the decades have changed as far as tortoise care.
Thanks again