Can you answer a question that is bugging me.

[Angi]

So yesterday I went to a huge San Diego reptile store. I think the biggest in SD. 3 thing they told me seem to conflict with some of the information I have learned on here or maybe I misunderstood.
#1 They said the 4 inch rule only applied to water turtles. I thought it applied to Box turtles also.
#2 Most Russian tortoises sold in stores are caught wild not captive breed. She said they have to be purchase in groups of something like 300. That seems strange.
I can't remember what #3 was.Hmmm... It might have been that they let the baby tortoises flip them selves over and don't help them. They said they need to learn.
Any one know if this info is correct? Anyone have any thoughts on the flipping thing?

 

[kimber_lee_314]

Reptile stores (pet shops) lie!!! The four inch law applies to all turtles/tortoises. They get away with it by selling them for "educational purposes" only.

Yes, sadly, most Russians sold in stores are wild caught.

I've watched my babies flip and waited, and waited, and waited while they tried to flip back over but couldn't. I'm not saying they can't - but I always flip mine back. They can get too hot in the heat.

 

[Angi]

They did have a tank of sliders that were born in March that had a not for sale yet sign. I see lots of tiny tortoises for sale. They didn't have any tiny boxies, but they said I should call later to see if they hatch any.

Very sad about the Russians

The baby tort flipped in his water and was upside down for about half an hour before I found someone that would rescue him.

 

[Madkins007]

1. 4" rule- applies to all turtles and tortoises sold in the US. If you read the law, they CANNOT be sold as pets, even using the 'educational/display' dodge. Chinatowns, etc. get away with it because they claim them as food, festivals get away with it under a couple other loopholes, and of course, you can buy or sell from breeders since the law is just to avoid commercial sales.

2. Most Russians (and a lot of other comercially sold species), from what I can find, are wild caught, although they MAY have been held in a 'farm' for a while or passed through a country with more lax laws so they be claimes as 'captive bred'. The book "The Lizard King" discusses this deceptive/illegal practice that is sadly common.

3. Baby torts and turtles that flip do need to get back over on their own. As keepers, we need to figure out WHY they are flipping- habitat design, aggression, illness, etc. and deal with it.

Read The Lizard King and see if you EVER buy another animal from a pet shop!

 

[Jacqui]

The baby tort flipped in his water and was upside down for about half an hour before I found someone that would rescue him.

I am a strong believer in giving my babies a chance to learn to flip themselves back over, that being said, a flipped over tortoise in water can be a different story especially depending on water depth. They have the added risk of becoming to tired and end up drowning. They may inhale water.

 

[Angi]

Thanks guys! Yeah it was the water that freaked me out. His head kept going in and he was really slowing down as far as even trying to flip. And he was NOT 4" and he was for sale. Hmm...Maybe they are measuring differently. I have been folllowing the under shell method, not including the head or tail. They sure were cute. Where can I find The Lizard King? This was not a regular pet shop, it was more of an exotic animal and reptile store. The workers seemed really in to reptiles.

 

[dmmj]

I also believe that you should allow a baby to try and flip over themselves, but being a pet store you think they would protect their inventory.

 

[kimber_lee_314]

I'm curious about babies flipping themselves. My boxie babies can do it just fine - they have more agility, but my tortoises never seem to do it on their own. How do they actually do it (without being near a wall or something to gain leverage from?) Is this something I can "teach" them?