I think Ive posted this on unrelated threads, but my question is. If we assume that a female that has been with a male can lay fertile eggs for up to a reported five years after that male has been removed (retaining semen). Than can we assume that a female that has been with multiple males can lay eggs that are half related, meaning, the female produced a clutch of eggs using the semen of mutiple males.
Clutch Of Eggs Half Related?
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That is how I understand it
Az tortoise compound said:That is how I understand it
Mick, has this been discussed and I'm just late to the party? Because we hear so much about hatchling relation and genetics. I mean there are studbooks that dont dive into that kind of info. Usually in a studbook you read Dame # 24 and sire usually reads Multiple or a specific male. Usually Multiple means female kept in colony with multiple males not female has been exclusive with multiple males at different times.
I know that dogs can have multiple sires in one litter. I would assume torts can too, but don't know that for a fact. I did not know that they could store sperm for that long either.
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Multiple means female kept in colony with multiple males not female has been exclusive with multiple males at different times.
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I am not sure what the difference is?? If a female is kept with multiple males, they can only "hook up" at different times. Do I make sense? You can't have two males breed with one female simultaneously (although they sure try)
If a female is only housed with one unique male each year for three years or if she is housed with three males (4 animals in a pen) for three years, any male could be the sire of any hatchling...right? (I'm talking at the end of the 3 years of course)
Multiple means female kept in colony with multiple males not female has been exclusive with multiple males at different times.
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I am not sure what the difference is?? If a female is kept with multiple males, they can only "hook up" at different times. Do I make sense? You can't have two males breed with one female simultaneously (although they sure try
)If a female is only housed with one unique male each year for three years or if she is housed with three males (4 animals in a pen) for three years, any male could be the sire of any hatchling...right? (I'm talking at the end of the 3 years of course)
Multiple means female kept in colony with multiple males not female has been exclusive with multiple males at different times.
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I am not sure what the difference is?? If a female is kept with multiple males, they can only "hook up" at different times. Do I make sense? You can't have two males breed with one female simultaneously (although they sure try
)If a female is only housed with one unique male each year for three years or if she is housed with three males (4 animals in a pen) for three years, any male could be the sire of any hatchling...right? (I'm talking at the end of the 3 years of course)
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Right, female kept with multiple males. oK so if a female can produce eggs from sperm from a male 3,4,5 years ago, she cant store it in its own compartment, can she. Or is the microscopic egg fertilized at the point of conception and stored for a later date?. If that female mated with all three males in that 3 year span then she is laying clutches of eggs that are half siblings? Each male is represented in the clutch. So year 1 she is housed with male A and layes a clutch exclusively to A. Year 2 she is housed with only male B and lays a clutch containing offspring from both A and B. Year 3 she is housed with male C and in that season layes eggs with genetics of A, B and C. Is that probable?
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Right, female kept with multiple males. oK so if a female can produce eggs from sperm from a male 3,4,5 years ago,
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Not sure on how long, I can only personally verify two years.
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she cant store it in its own compartment, can she. Or is the microscopic egg fertilized at the point of conception and stored for a later date?.
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That is a question for the more scientifically inclined than me.
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If that female mated with all three males in that 3 year span then she is laying clutches of eggs that are half siblings? Each male is represented in the clutch. So year 1 she is housed with male A and layes a clutch exclusively to A. Year 2 she is housed with only male B and lays a clutch containing offspring from both A and B. Year 3 she is housed with male C and in that season layes eggs with genetics of A, B and C. Is that probable?
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Yes, as far as I know.... for instance.... the leop-cata......I would think that female Sully could hatch out both hybrids and full sullies in the same clutch.
Right, female kept with multiple males. oK so if a female can produce eggs from sperm from a male 3,4,5 years ago,
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Not sure on how long, I can only personally verify two years.
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she cant store it in its own compartment, can she. Or is the microscopic egg fertilized at the point of conception and stored for a later date?.
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That is a question for the more scientifically inclined than me.
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If that female mated with all three males in that 3 year span then she is laying clutches of eggs that are half siblings? Each male is represented in the clutch. So year 1 she is housed with male A and layes a clutch exclusively to A. Year 2 she is housed with only male B and lays a clutch containing offspring from both A and B. Year 3 she is housed with male C and in that season layes eggs with genetics of A, B and C. Is that probable?
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Yes, as far as I know.... for instance.... the leop-cata......I would think that female Sully could hatch out both hybrids and full sullies in the same clutch.
Well far be it for me to correct you Ha! Ha! I attended the school of hard knocks and majored in trial and error.
Ha! Ha! I attended the school of hard knocks and majored in trial and error.
Our breeding colony consist of several males and multiple females. I am 99% sure we have had hatchlings from the same clutch with different males providing fertility.
This is a very interesting thread. Thank you Onaroc for starting it. I am blown away by this info.
Right, female kept with multiple males. oK so if a female can produce eggs from sperm from a male 3,4,5 years ago,
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Not sure on how long, I can only personally verify two years.
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she cant store it in its own compartment, can she. Or is the microscopic egg fertilized at the point of conception and stored for a later date?.
[/quote]
That is a question for the more scientifically inclined than me.
[/quote]
If that female mated with all three males in that 3 year span then she is laying clutches of eggs that are half siblings? Each male is represented in the clutch. So year 1 she is housed with male A and layes a clutch exclusively to A. Year 2 she is housed with only male B and lays a clutch containing offspring from both A and B. Year 3 she is housed with male C and in that season layes eggs with genetics of A, B and C. Is that probable?
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Yes, as far as I know.... for instance.... the leop-cata......I would think that female Sully could hatch out both hybrids and full sullies in the same clutch.
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Mick, I was tired last night when I read the last part of your post. Yes, wouldnt it be interesting if that female sulcata also bred with another sulcata and produced a clutch of pure sulcatas and leop-cata? Wow, I think I would be blown away by that.
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Mick, I was tired last night when I read the last part of your post. Yes, wouldnt it be interesting if that female sulcata also bred with another sulcata and produced a clutch of pure sulcatas and leop-cata? Wow, I think I would be blown away by that.
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This has been done.
Mick, I was tired last night when I read the last part of your post. Yes, wouldnt it be interesting if that female sulcata also bred with another sulcata and produced a clutch of pure sulcatas and leop-cata? Wow, I think I would be blown away by that.
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This has been done.
I'm sure they can cause dogs and cats can here's a picture of half siblings, one is a pure bred Yorkshire Terrier and one is a Chihuahua/Yorkshire Terrier from the same litter: http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/images19/ChihuahuaYorkieTwins.JPG
Obviously torts are different but it's probably the same kind of idea. People can do it too with fraternal twins, at least that's what my health teacher told me That's why there's so much variety in kittens.
Obviously torts are different but it's probably the same kind of idea. People can do it too with fraternal twins, at least that's what my health teacher told me
That's why there's so much variety in kittens.abra said:I'm sure they can cause dogs and cats can here's a picture of half siblings, one is a pure bred Yorkshire Terrier and one is a Chihuahua/Yorkshire Terrier from the same litter: http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/images19/ChihuahuaYorkieTwins.JPG
Obviously torts are different but it's probably the same kind of idea. People can do it too with fraternal twins, at least that's what my health teacher told me
Isn't that just a picture of two Chi/Yorkie mixes, and one looks more like a Yorkie? I don't know anything about breeding so correct me if I'm wrong!
eta: crap, off-topic again. SORRY!
I am involved with a toroise studbook and the first 20-30 animals in the book are Wild Caught. They are also responsible for producing a large portion of the other animals. If we dont know their breeding history in the wild and females can lay clutches of eggs with multiple Sire's then I would think that this particular studbook could have more genetic diversity than I thought. Or, anyone else.
ChiKat said:
In dogs and cats (I'm not a vet or a scientist, so I'm just saying it like I understand it) there are mature follicles that are ready to be fertilized. Lets say a dog has 8 mature follicles. She gets bred by another dog, her same breed and that sperm fertilizes 5 of the follicles. Then she gets bred by that dastardly cur from around the corner and the remaining follicles are fertilized. She will have 5 pure bred pups and 3 mutts. Of course, the purebreds can't be registered, but they are, indeed, purebred.
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