Commercial tortoise food

[juljanssen]

I just received two Sulcatas - brothers that are maybe 20 inches long. The previous owner fed them romaine, red cabbage, and watermelon. I am trying to convince them to try a more varied diet. I want to buy Mazuri, but am not sure the difference between the Tortoise diet and the Tortoise LS diet. Which should I buy? I bought a bale of Bermuda and will see if I can get them to nibble on that. Any suggestions on how to get them on to a healthier diet?

 

[Dizisdalife]

Get the original Mazuri. It is labeled #5M21. Most sulcata won't eat the LS for some reason.

 

[juljanssen]

Get the original Mazuri. It is labeled #5M21. Most sulcata won't eat the LS for some reason.

Thanks! Ordering now.

 

[Tom]

I just received two Sulcatas - brothers that are maybe 20 inches long. The previous owner fed them romaine, red cabbage, and watermelon. I am trying to convince them to try a more varied diet. I want to buy Mazuri, but am not sure the difference between the Tortoise diet and the Tortoise LS diet. Which should I buy? I bought a bale of Bermuda and will see if I can get them to nibble on that. Any suggestions on how to get them on to a healthier diet?

Mix the foods that they know and love with the newer better foods and feed it to them on a bed of bermuda grass hay or orchard grass hay. Start with small amounts of the new stuff and it will help if you chop it all up and mix it together thoroughly. In time they will begin to eat all of it and the hay too.

Where are you and how are they being housed? They need a properly designed and built heated night box. The two of them should not be living together. Males fight and tortoises should never be kept in pairs. If they aren't fighting already, they soon will be. I suggest separating them before you have a problem and they do damage to each other. Many years ago I raised two males together for years and they did fine… Until the one day when all hell broke loose and they were trying to kill each other. If I hadn't been standing right there when it happened, Im sure I'd have found one or both of them dead.

Here is a feeding sheet:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

I can link night box threads too, if you need it.

 

[juljanssen]

Hi Tom, and thank you,
You were a great help when I inherited my younger (CA desert) tortoises as well! They are both doing great and eat a much better diet now. I seem to have turned in to an uneducated tortoise rescue!

I do walk each morning to collect food and purchased a bale of Bermuda grass hay yesterday. Do you know if they will eat bedstraw? They will occasionally nibble on buckwheat and like deer weed. I know I need to limit brassicas, but what about mustard leaf and flower?

Right now they are in an approximately 400 sf pen and I am using a plastic dog house (disassembled so that each has his own) for a shelter. We are building an area for them that will allow for appropriate burrows and a shed with heat.Yes, please send me the link as I would rather just do it right the first time around!

I did read that they should not be housed together - I guess I should place one of them. I am in the Fallbrook area- do you know anyone committed enough to take one of them? I am the third home these guys have had and it makes me sad to think they may be placed repeatedly in the future.

Julie

 

[Tom]

Hi Tom, and thank you,
You were a great help when I inherited my younger (CA desert) tortoises as well! They are both doing great and eat a much better diet now. I seem to have turned in to an uneducated tortoise rescue!

I do walk each morning to collect food and purchased a bale of Bermuda grass hay yesterday. Do you know if they will eat bedstraw? They will occasionally nibble on buckwheat and like deer weed. I know I need to limit brassicas, but what about mustard leaf and flower?

Right now they are in an approximately 400 sf pen and I am using a plastic dog house (disassembled so that each has his own) for a shelter. We are building an area for them that will allow for appropriate burrows and a shed with heat.Yes, please send me the link as I would rather just do it right the first time around!

I did read that they should not be housed together - I guess I should place one of them. I am in the Fallbrook area- do you know anyone committed enough to take one of them? I am the third home these guys have had and it makes me sad to think they may be placed repeatedly in the future.

Julie

Glad I could help with your DTs and I hope I can help with these guys too. I like to number my points to keep my thoughts organized better:
1. Bermuda grass is great and can be used for food or for bedding. I would not use the straw at all for them.
2. All parts of the wild mustard are good as part of a varied diet. Mine will eat it, but they don't seem to want to eat a lot of it.
3. 400 sq ft is roughly 20x20, or 10x40 feet. Does that sound about right? That is an okay size for a smaller juvenile, but these big boys need much more room to roam than that. Here is my enclosure for reference: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/enclosure-expansion.38788/ I've made it larger two times since that picture which is now several years old.
4. Even though our days have been scorchers lately, the nights are still too cold. These guys are not like your DTs. They are a tropical species and the need night heat, or they will get sick. I would bring them inside at night until you get something built for them.
This box would be good for a single:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-night-box-thread.88966/

Here is a different way to heat it and offer more indoor floor space:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/my-best-night-box-design-yet.66867/

I think this one would suit your situation best. I have two male South African Leopards that cannot live together. They'd kill each other. Their enclosures are side by side and they share a single heated night box that has a divider in the middle. This way, I only have to heat one box, but they stay separated at all times.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/double-door-night-box.129054/

I don't like heated sheds because they are usually 8' tall inside, which means you are heating 7+ feet of air space for no good reason. What a waste!

Do a thread with pics to find someone to adopt one, if you decide to go that way. @TylerStewart is sometimes looking for adults. He's in Vegas, so not too far from us.

Hope this info helps. Feel free to ask more questions. We are all here to talk torts!

 

[Yvonne G]

My tortoises inhabit yards that include four sheds, one in each yard. The sheds are tall enough for me to stand up inside. It takes no more to heat the tortoise on the floor of those sheds than it takes to heat a night box. There is a pig blanket on the floor dialled to where it stays about 80F degrees, and a 250 watt brooder light hanging from the ceiling down to about 4' above the floor. I've gone in there on the coldest nights with my temperature gun and the backs of the tortoises are within the temperature range I want them to be. Heat rises, and those pig blankets on the floor heat up the air in the shed nicely. Same goes for the 250 watt brooder bulb. The air inside the sheds is comfortably warm.

Night boxes have their use, but the way my tortoises live - shed for shelter, but out in the yard any time they want out - a night box wouldn't work. My tortoises, here in my climate, need more space than a night box. They have to LIVE in their shed on very cold days. A night box just wouldn't be big enough for a large tortoise to live in.

 

[juljanssen]

Glad I could help with your DTs and I hope I can help with these guys too. I like to number my points to keep my thoughts organized better:
1. Bermuda grass is great and can be used for food or for bedding. I would not use the straw at all for them.
2. All parts of the wild mustard are good as part of a varied diet. Mine will eat it, but they don't seem to want to eat a lot of it.
3. 400 sq ft is roughly 20x20, or 10x40 feet. Does that sound about right? That is an okay size for a smaller juvenile, but these big boys need much more room to roam than that. Here is my enclosure for reference: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/enclosure-expansion.38788/ I've made it larger two times since that picture which is now several years old.
4. Even though our days have been scorchers lately, the nights are still too cold. These guys are not like your DTs. They are a tropical species and the need night heat, or they will get sick. I would bring them inside at night until you get something built for them.
This box would be good for a single:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-night-box-thread.88966/

Here is a different way to heat it and offer more indoor floor space:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/my-best-night-box-design-yet.66867/

I think this one would suit your situation best. I have two male South African Leopards that cannot live together. They'd kill each other. Their enclosures are side by side and they share a single heated night box that has a divider in the middle. This way, I only have to heat one box, but they stay separated at all times.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/double-door-night-box.129054/

I don't like heated sheds because they are usually 8' tall inside, which means you are heating 7+ feet of air space for no good reason. What a waste!

Do a thread with pics to find someone to adopt one, if you decide to go that way. @TylerStewart is sometimes looking for adults. He's in Vegas, so not too far from us.

Hope this info helps. Feel free to ask more questions. We are all here to talk torts!

Oh dear! I have so much to do now. Yes, the pen is about 20 by 20, but they spend a lot of time in their boxes during the heat of the day. One always seems to have wet eyes. Should I take him to a vet? Do males and females live nicely together?

I am not sure I can make a pen as big as yours, but I will buy the box elements and start building! Can you recommend a good online store for the heaters? Again, thank you very much and I will start reading some of the other threads to learn more. Will also post pics to see if I Tyler or another person willing to commit to the life of a tortoise!

I am wondering, are you a member of CNPS? You mentioned growing natives in one of your posts. I have lots of native seed. If you tell me what species you grow perhaps I can share some with you.

Julie

 

[juljanssen]

I forgot to ask about bathing - will the tub below work if I bury it? I was thinking I could but a flat rock on one end for them to get out.

 

[juljanssen]

My tortoises inhabit yards that include four sheds, one in each yard. The sheds are tall enough for me to stand up inside. It takes no more to heat the tortoise on the floor of those sheds than it takes to heat a night box. There is a pig blanket on the floor dialled to where it stays about 80F degrees, and a 250 watt brooder light hanging from the ceiling down to about 4' above the floor. I've gone in there on the coldest nights with my temperature gun and the backs of the tortoises are within the temperature range I want them to be. Heat rises, and those pig blankets on the floor heat up the air in the shed nicely. Same goes for the 250 watt brooder bulb. The air inside the sheds is comfortably warm.

Night boxes have their use, but the way my tortoises live - shed for shelter, but out in the yard any time they want out - a night box wouldn't work. My tortoises, here in my climate, need more space than a night box. They have to LIVE in their shed on very cold days. A night box just wouldn't be big enough for a large tortoise to live in.

Hi Yvonne, Good point about it needing too be big enough for cold clients. We don't get super cold for long here. Normally just a . night or two in a row of freezing. Perhaps I will do something in the middle so that he (because I have to place one, sad face) will be able to go in and out at will.

 

[Big Charlie]

Oh dear! I have so much to do now. Yes, the pen is about 20 by 20, but they spend a lot of time in their boxes during the heat of the day. One always seems to have wet eyes. Should I take him to a vet? Do males and females live nicely together?

I am not sure I can make a pen as big as yours, but I will buy the box elements and start building! Can you recommend a good online store for the heaters? Again, thank you very much and I will start reading some of the other threads to learn more. Will also post pics to see if I Tyler or another person willing to commit to the life of a tortoise!

I am wondering, are you a member of CNPS? You mentioned growing natives in one of your posts. I have lots of native seed. If you tell me what species you grow perhaps I can share some with you.

Julie

Wet eyes are probably normal. The sulcata is called the crying tortoise. It seems to me that when Charlie's eyes are wet, he is too warm.

 

[tortoiseplanet]

Mix the foods that they know and love with the newer better foods and feed it to them on a bed of bermuda grass hay or orchard grass hay. Start with small amounts of the new stuff and it will help if you chop it all up and mix it together thoroughly. In time they will begin to eat all of it and the hay too.

Where are you and how are they being housed? They need a properly designed and built heated night box. The two of them should not be living together. Males fight and tortoises should never be kept in pairs. If they aren't fighting already, they soon will be. I suggest separating them before you have a problem and they do damage to each other. Many years ago I raised two males together for years and they did fine… Until the one day when all hell broke loose and they were trying to kill each other. If I hadn't been standing right there when it happened, Im sure I'd have found one or both of them dead.

Here is a feeding sheet:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

I can link night box threads too, if you need it.

Do you know anywhere I could get hay from?

 

[juljanssen]

I purchased my bale of hay from a feed store. I'm not sure how much you want, but if you don't need a bale I am sure you can get smaller amounts at a pet store. Look in the small rodent section.

 

[juljanssen]

Wet eyes are probably normal. The sulcata is called the crying tortoise. It seems to me that when Charlie's eyes are wet, he is too warm.

Thank-you. I have a drinking bowl in there and tomorrow the soaking tub should be ready!

 

[Tom]

Oh dear! I have so much to do now. Yes, the pen is about 20 by 20, but they spend a lot of time in their boxes during the heat of the day. One always seems to have wet eyes. Should I take him to a vet? Do males and females live nicely together?

I am not sure I can make a pen as big as yours, but I will buy the box elements and start building! Can you recommend a good online store for the heaters? Again, thank you very much and I will start reading some of the other threads to learn more. Will also post pics to see if I Tyler or another person willing to commit to the life of a tortoise!

I am wondering, are you a member of CNPS? You mentioned growing natives in one of your posts. I have lots of native seed. If you tell me what species you grow perhaps I can share some with you.

Julie

One of the nicknames of this species is "The Crying Tortoise". The best sulcata book ever written uses that as its title. Nothing wrong with Mr. Leaky Eyes.

When there is one dominant male and several females in a large, well-designed enclosure, then yes, males and females can get along. But there are no guarantees. This also makes a baby factory and the person who puts together such a group will have a new year round job of raising and trying to sell babies.

Your pen does not have to be as large as mine, but make it bigger than 20x20 if you can.

I get my mini radiant oil-filled heaters from Walmart for about $30. Radiant heat panels from http://www.reptilebasics.com/rbi-radiant-heat-panels. Kane mats directly from Kane. Then is use one or the other of these to control the heater(s):
https://www.lllreptile.com/products/13883-zilla-1000-watt-temperature-controller
https://www.hydrofarm.com/p/MTPRTC

 

[Tom]

Do you know anywhere I could get hay from?

Julie answered, but I too get mine from my local feed store. Look for a place that sells horse supplies, or someone you know that has a horse.

 

[Tom]

I am wondering, are you a member of CNPS? You mentioned growing natives in one of your posts. I have lots of native seed. If you tell me what species you grow perhaps I can share some with you.

I am not a member. I had to look it up to see what it was. I grow whatever good stuff I can find for tortoise food. However, I'm not sure if most of my weeds are introduced invaders, or native species. I just know they are good tortoise food. You might know:
sow thistle
thistle
milk thislte
mallow
dandelion - from Eurasia…
wild garic
wild mustard
fiddleneck - but never the seed heads, as those are toxic. Just the young leaves in moderation
broad and narrow leaf plantain
filaree
I know there are a dozen more that I can't think of...