concave scutes?

[Rover15]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LZP1LVE/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

take a look at that one ... I might see if I can find that in Canada as it will keep track of the max and min.

If one box turtle is in a smaller tub than the other that isn't the same condition maybe there is less of a Temperature gradient, How long have you owned both if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Rover15]

40% humidity is too low for box turtles. If you can get it to 60% or more that would be better.

with older box turtles you can have a lower air humidity as long as they have a humid hide and can retreat to a higher humidity spot, or dig into the substrate for better humidity.

as always I could be wrong but this is how I understand it.

 

[lisa127]

with older box turtles you can have a lower air humidity as long as they have a humid hide and can retreat to a higher humidity spot, or dig into the substrate for better humidity.

as always I could be wrong but this is how I understand it.

I provide higher humidity for all mine, but everyone does things different. The turtle in question is a young growing turtle though isn't he?

 

[Rover15]

the first post says pushing 4 years old, it would depend on what you consider young.

 

[Pearly]

One of my RFs got that this past winter season I still soak my torts daily, they are almost 3 yrs old. The only think different this winter was that I dropped the use of humidifier. Stopped using it last Spring, thought they were already big enough... and then Shellie gets that depressed growth with little rough looking growth line (which is i think similar to what you refer to as delamination). The other tort kept in exact same conditions, fed this same diet, doesn’t have that, only Shelly. Well, my fogger is back on, every evening after their bath and supper I put them to “bed” I run the fogger for 6-8 minutes which gets the humidity up to 89-92% and by the next am it is still in the 80’s. Anyway my guess is, it is probably related somehow to heat/humidity factors, and I believe it is just a cosmetic thing. Personally I’m not worried about mine

 

[Loohan]

Yes, I know. I believe higher humidity is best for them. JMO.

Maybe. But they spend a lot of time with their noses buried in substrate, so if the substrate is damp...

 

[lisa127]

Maybe. But they spend a lot of time with their noses buried in substrate, so if the substrate is damp...

I understand. I just believe box turtles should be provided with 60 to 80 percent humidity, depending on which subspecies. I think the humidity needs of box turtles is greater than people realize.

 

[Bunny2746]

Wouldn’t it be best for the turtles and easier on us humans to just leave turtles outside in the real air and humidity? If they are over two years old.

 

[Rover15]

Wouldn’t it be best for the turtles and easier on us humans to just leave turtles outside in the real air and humidity? If they are over two years old.

it's not always an option for everyone.

 

[lisa127]

Wouldn’t it be best for the turtles and easier on us humans to just leave turtles outside in the real air and humidity? If they are over two years old.

I choose not to hibernate mine and I live in Cleveland so most of the year, no. Besides I don't find it difficult at all to provide correct temps and humidity.

 

[Loohan]

Wouldn’t it be best for the turtles and easier on us humans to just leave turtles outside in the real air and humidity? If they are over two years old.

Maybe. I live in their native area. But it's also very rural, with raccons, stray dogs, and much more rarely, bears or even cougars.
I have often heard, but never seen, coyotes as well.
I do need to make some better outdoor facilities for them, rather than just soaking them in tanks, but i would be very nervous about leaving them out at night unless it was ultra-fortified.

 

[Loohan]

It occurred to me i should have included a pic of his curly plastron.
Today's pic.

 

[Eric Phillips]

View attachment 235751

It occurred to me i should have included a pic of his curly plastron.
Today's pic.

I'd say the possible causes could be A.) Genetic B.) Diet - too much Phosphorus to Calcium ratio, heavy protein C.) Kept in dry conditions D.) Combination of the 3. I would lean more towards diet and dry conditions. From November to April, I did not provide any artificial UVB to my hatchlings that were hatched in August. I provided a heat light, semi-moist to moist substrate, and daily soaks. The temps were 77 degrees during the day, basking at 90, low end 72, NO night heat(house stayed around 70) low down to 68, humidity around 60%, and a semi-closed enclosure. Honestly, the major key was diet, they were provided Hikari and Mazuri aquatic pellets in their soaks daily along with Black Soldier Fly Larvae and fed a varied diet of non-live protien, fruits, veggies, and greens(not many with high oxalic acid) mash 2-3 times a week. I moistened and turned the soil every week to 2 weeks. Shell growth was nice on all of them. Now, I am not saying don't provide a UVB light, I am simply saying diet and BSFL can reinforce calcium absorption during a critical time of growth. They were never fed supers nor meal worms during this time, FYI. Only, Rollies, Dubia Roaches, BSFL, Earth worms, Hornworms, and Wax Worms(a few times). The main live protein was BSFL. Disclaimer, the hatchlings did receive natural UVB from August to Nov. and they will get natural UVB as they will be kept outside periodically until they are ready to be outside for good. Most went from 7-8 grams to 22-30 grams during this time.

 

[Loohan]

I'd say the possible causes could be A.) Genetic B.) Diet - too much Phosphorus to Calcium ratio, heavy protein C.) Kept in dry conditions D.) Combination of the 3. I would lean more towards diet and dry conditions.

I tend to agree with this, tho lean more toward genetics. However, the other factors are the ones i could exert some control over.
He hasn't really had heavy protein very often. And the Phos/Cal ratio isn't always that bad.

From November to April, I did not provide any artificial UVB to my hatchlings that were hatched in August. I provided a heat light, semi-moist to moist substrate, and daily soaks. The temps were 77 degrees during the day, basking at 90, low end 72, NO night heat(house stayed around 70) low down to 68, humidity around 60%, and a semi-closed enclosure. Honestly, the major key was diet, they were provided Hikari and Mazuri aquatic pellets in their soaks daily along with Black Soldier Fly Larvae and fed a varied diet of non-live protien, fruits, veggies, and greens(not many with high oxalic acid) mash 2-3 times a week. I moistened and turned the soil every week to 2 weeks. Shell growth was nice on all of them. Now, I am not saying don't provide a UVB light, I am simply saying diet and BSFL can reinforce calcium absorption during a critical time of growth. They were never fed supers nor meal worms during this time, FYI. Only, Rollies, Dubia Roaches, BSFL, Earth worms, Hornworms, and Wax Worms(a few times). The main live protein was BSFL. Disclaimer, the hatchlings did receive natural UVB from August to Nov. and they will get natural UVB as they will be kept outside periodically until they are ready to be outside for good. Most went from 7-8 grams to 22-30 grams during this time.

Seems like superworms are about the only easy thing to grow that is quasi-acceptable as an occasional snack.
I tried silkworms, couldn't keep them alive. I did a few things wrong but they seem like a delicate species to keep.
I had a worm bin, but the only suitable place for it is an outbuilding that stays around 50-55 F in the winter. I don't think they can take that temp for extended periods, as they all failed to grow, and then died.
BSFL i can get easily in the summer as they show up in any rotting vegetable matter, and i do feed them stuff like organic corn meal when i get a batch going. But then keeping them through the winter...
And Dubia roachesrequire even more warmth than some feeders.
Pill bugs have been surprisingly hard to find, and even earthworms are often scarce around here. I had a bunch of them and/or nightcrawlers a couple years ago in one bed, big ones, fed them to my turts, and since then the bed has been fairly barren of them!
I dunno why i have trouble attracting them lately. I use a lot of wood chips, leaves, grass clippings etc but do not have hay or cow manure. I know the latter 2 mixed together will tend to turn into a worm farm.
I do have raised beds with compost, peat moss, etc and after a rain when it's warm i can find a few worms.

 

[lisa127]

Definetely try the BSFL Eric mentions. They are great for calcium and the turtles love them! I tend to feed mostly nightcrawlers with those for rotation.

I'e never experienced a plastron like that but diet and drier conditions seem like they could play a role.

 

[Rover15]

Definetely try the BSFL Eric mentions. They are great for calcium and the turtles love them!

What are BSFL?

 

[lisa127]

What are BSFL?

Black soldier fly larvae. Often called calciworms.

 

[Eric Phillips]

I tend to agree with this, tho lean more toward genetics. However, the other factors are the ones i could exert some control over.
He hasn't really had heavy protein very often. And the Phos/Cal ratio isn't always that bad.



Seems like superworms are about the only easy thing to grow that is quasi-acceptable as an occasional snack.
I tried silkworms, couldn't keep them alive. I did a few things wrong but they seem like a delicate species to keep.
I had a worm bin, but the only suitable place for it is an outbuilding that stays around 50-55 F in the winter. I don't think they can take that temp for extended periods, as they all failed to grow, and then died.
BSFL i can get easily in the summer as they show up in any rotting vegetable matter, and i do feed them stuff like organic corn meal when i get a batch going. But then keeping them through the winter...
And Dubia roachesrequire even more warmth than some feeders.
Pill bugs have been surprisingly hard to find, and even earthworms are often scarce around here. I had a bunch of them and/or nightcrawlers a couple years ago in one bed, big ones, fed them to my turts, and since then the bed has been fairly barren of them!
I dunno why i have trouble attracting them lately. I use a lot of wood chips, leaves, grass clippings etc but do not have hay or cow manure. I know the latter 2 mixed together will tend to turn into a worm farm.
I do have raised beds with compost, peat moss, etc and after a rain when it's warm i can find a few worms.

It very well could be genetic and how the keratin of new growth is forming. I just know “curling” of the marginal scutes can be correlated to the shell not receiving enough moisture and humidity similar to pyramiding in tortoises.

 

[Loohan]

Definetely try the BSFL Eric mentions. They are great for calcium and the turtles love them! I tend to feed mostly nightcrawlers with those for rotation.

I'e never experienced a plastron like that but diet and drier conditions seem like they could play a role.

I have been feeding them in the summer. Rorg loves them but Felter spurns them.

 

[Loohan]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LZP1LVE/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

take a look at that one ... I might see if I can find that in Canada as it will keep track of the max and min.

If one box turtle is in a smaller tub than the other that isn't the same condition maybe there is less of a Temperature gradient, How long have you owned both if you don't mind me asking?

Wow, some posts that i hadn't noticed on this thread.
That item says Currently unavailable.
We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock.
Though i might find it or an equivalent elsewhere.

I have both totes on one thermostat. The big tote has a 60W CHE and the small one a 40, the probe is in the big one, and it works out that the temp ranges end up very, very close to the same. Some parts of each tote are cooler, others warmer, but the highs and lows are real close to the same from one tote to the other. Like a degree or 2 difference.
I have had Rorg since Aug '14 and Felter since June '16.