straight, rigid tail?

[Loohan]

My 4" 3-toed Felter
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/felter-my-new-3-toed.143001/
lately has a very rigid tail, sticking straight out. I never noticed how rigid it is until a couple weeks ago.

With my other little 3-toe, Rorg, his tail is out straight, too, but if i touch it, he folds it sideways against his shell. Felter's no longer moves but just sticks out like a spike.
Is this some adolescence-related thing? "His" gender is not certain. Someone said he was female because of the shortness of the tail, but then he's also young.

 

[Yvonne G]

Sometimes it has to do with MBD. How does he look otherwise? Toenails of a good length and not starting to curl?

 

[Loohan]

He looks fine. The only odd thing is, after i got him in June (from the wild), he developed a dry-looking shell. My other boxie (as well as the injured one i just released) never got dry shell despite living in the same conditions Felter does.
He has had dry shell for months. I put on some jojoba oil once, but that only helped for a while.

An odd think about him (you can see in the original pictures) is that his irises look weird. Don't we have any turtle iridologists here? I know that in people, the iris can indicate internal problems.

 

[Loohan]

His tail is still like that. I hope he's OK as i plan to refrigerate him in a few days.
I wonder if this could be a reaction to solanaceous phytochemicals?
He had slowed down his eating a few weeks ago. He did not seem to like black soldier fly larvae much and only nibbled on a few occasionally. He could no longer be tempted with a cherry tomato. He was uninterested in grapes or berries. He would eat some banana but i only gave him a tbs once in a while. I would feed him any cicadas i found.
Then once i found a monster late hornworm which had ruined 3 tomatoes and stripped part of a plant. It was as big a hornworm as i've ever seen, as big as a man's finger. I knew it would be full of tomato sap but also have a very good calcium/phosphorus ratio, so i offered it to him. He ate the whole thing! This was about 2 weeks ago or a little less. This is a big meal for a 4" turtle.

 

[HI Tortoise Rescue]

Too much animal protein! I was barely able to save two of my son's baby boxies that he was feeding bloodworms to...& nothing else. Their eyes bulged, which told me instantly what was wrong. We put them on Mazuri, fruits, & extra calcium, & they pulled out of it. Four months later, they look just fine. Any time a turtle stops eating its normal diet, take a hard look at what you're feeding it.

Ken

 

[Loohan]

Thanks, Ken. Maybe so. But as it got later in the year, he pretty much lost interest in fruit and vegs. Of course i did not have the lettuce stalks at that time that he used to prefer. But he also would not touch a lettuce leaf anymore, or tomato, or opuntia, or berries. He used to be fairly fond of opuntia sometimes. And on the occasions he got a bit of tomato, he was pretty enthused.

I assumed he was more interested in protein and fat for the winter.
Except he also hardly ate any of the BSFL i gave him. I wonder if i should have just let him fast instead of trying to tempt him with irresistable critters. I was just trying to delay brumation a bit.

Anyway he's in the fridge now. Hope he'll be OK.
He did eat a lot of plant matter earlier in the year.

 

[HI Tortoise Rescue]

It's easy for us to try & second-guess what you're doing, of course. I'm not sure what's called when a turtle's eyes bulge, but it's always been fatal if the animal protein isn't stopped. I learned that many years ago after losing a few too many.... Okay, a quick Google found this: http://www.anapsid.org/eyebulge.html, which is Vitamin A-related.

Ken

 

[Loohan]

Well i'll pay close attention to his eyes next time i inspect him. I did not notice anything abnormal, but then i wasn't looking for it either.
I probably should get more carotenoids into their diet. I used to feed my little guy Rorg superworms that were stuffed with organic and wild greens, even sometimes grated carrot. But i stopped using superworms because of their high phosphorus content.

Felter mostly got night crawlers until the native ones ran dry in late summer.

 

[Loohan]

On the subject of Vit A / beta carotene, i was reading

The Amazing Health Benefits Of Broadleaf Plantain
https://marleneaffeld.com/2015/10/24/the-amazing-health-benefits-of-broadleaf-plantain/

"the young leaves of the broadleaf plantain are more nutritious than any other green; higher in beta-carotene than carrots and higher in iron and calcium than spinach.

"Historical Medicinal Use

"This vital wild edible plant has been used for centuries in traditional Chinese medicine as a remedy for a host of ills including digestive disorders, flatulence, chronic diarrhea, mouth and stomach ulcers as well as dental caries and gingivitis. Dried leaves, flowers and seeds make an excellent, healing herbal tea."

etc... many other nutrients.

I happen to be blessed with lots of that underutilized resource during the growing season. Seems to me, if the turtles won't eat it, make a strong tea with it and SOAK them. Maybe they will absorb some nutrients through their skin even in the event that they don't drink. Should be better than commercial non-organic cooked baby foods so often recommended for nutrient soaks.

And for non-brumating turtles, one could freeze or freeze-dry some young leaves for winter use.

And for people not blessed with this herb, maybe this stuff would be good to sprinkle on food:
Freeze-Dried Moringa – A Top Source of Beta-Carotene
http://www.healwithfood.org/where-to-buy/freeze-dried-moringa-more-beta-carotene-than-carrots.php

 

[Loohan]

I uploaded a fresh pic of the little varmint:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/felter-my-new-3-toed.143001/page-2#post-1434770

I brumated him for only 5 weeks because i was unsure of his health, but he seems fine. I took him out on the 1st and only tried feeding him this morning. I soaked him in carrot juice a good while, and fed him a medium sized night crawler. He didn't want a 2nd one. Also i put some spring mix lettuce in his box.
He is quite active and strong, trying to get out of soaking containers.
His tail still sticks out fairly straight most of the time, but has lost most of its stiffness.

 

[Loohan]

He definitely seems perfectly fine to me. His tail is back to normal now; sometimes even tucked to the side.
He's been eating some (smallish night crawlers and a piece of mango) but not a lot. No interest in greens. And he's also less active this time of year. He's pooping a bit, and a couple days ago passed a soft urate glob about twice the size of a BB.
Some people claim that boxies don't do urates, but i've seen it once or twice with my other little one, and this once with Felter.

I've been soaking him daily.
I am fairly convinced it was just an overload of tomato toxins that took a while to go away. He won't be getting any more tomato for several months.