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Dark Adonis

Discussion in 'Tortoise Breeding' started by Anyfoot, Aug 28, 2016.

  1. Anyfoot

    Anyfoot Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Carl, I'll slow it down a tad.
    I wanted to ask you about protein, at what stage do you start feeding animal protein, this little guy had none yet.
    Im not 100% sure but need to ask, I thought keratin growth was basically through protein, is that correct? I know there is protein in foliage too, so does what is happening to this tort prove I have an inbalance between fruit and foliage ratio?
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  2. Anyfoot

    Anyfoot Well-Known Member

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    Just wanted to add also I've fed quite a lot of flower heads too, primrose plants gone mad with blooming. Am I correct in saying flower heads lack protein, they will always favor flowers over the foliage. The only foliage I've fed are weeds,grape leaves and hibiscus leaves.
    This one below is about 14wks now and coming up to the 90g mark. Exact same enclosure,humid etc. But no flowers for its first 8wks or so, I think she looks good.
    Have I been inadvertently lacking in protein with the Adonis because they favor the flowers over weeds. So lack of protein has slowed down keratin growth but not bone growth. Or am I way off the mark with this thought.
    I know I'm being picky here, but need to be.
    IMG_20161023_095354.jpg
  3. cdmay

    cdmay Well-Known Member 10 Year Member!

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    Don't panic.
    Flowers, mushrooms and young greens are great for little ones.
    As for protein, go easy.
    The idea that red foot tortoises 'need' protein from the get go is highly overblown.
    Also , I'm pretty sure that keratin comes from calcium, not protein.
    Could be wrong though.
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  4. cdmay

    cdmay Well-Known Member 10 Year Member!

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    I AM WRONG!
    Keratin is a 'structural protein'.
    You were right Anyfoot.
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  5. Anyfoot

    Anyfoot Well-Known Member

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    @cdmay. This little dark guy just seems to be growing wierd. It's a well hydrated tort and I don't feed it crap. It's active and eats but it's new growth just does not look right, it looks as if the keratin is not keeping up with growth, I know you mentioned maybe growing too fast. It's coming up to 11wks(74days) old now and weighs 38g(1.34oz). Hatched at 20g(0.71oz). Does that seem like fast growth to you?
    Not panicking here, just curious if you think this growth rate is too fast.

    I've given it some protein today for the first time (1 piece of cat meat).
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  6. cdmay

    cdmay Well-Known Member 10 Year Member!

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    Cat meat??? Really?
    Wow, I've never considered offering cat meat before. I'll have to look for it at the grocery store.
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  7. Anyfoot

    Anyfoot Well-Known Member

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    Ha, new you would comment on that. Dont worry I normally feed worms to my torts, but he was out feeding so I gave him a piece of cat meat for convenience, too dark to raid the wormery.
    I've noticed on this guy even his marginal scutes look to have wide crevices between scutes, which suggests fast growth too, I keep thinking maybe I fed too much fruit in the early days, but my other tort looks perfect with exact same diet agenda. So then I'm thinking is there just something not right with this tort, is that why it's so unnaturally dark. Time will tell.
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  8. Anyfoot

    Anyfoot Well-Known Member

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    The fact my first every hatchlings was very dark and suddenly died at around 3 months old has made me very dubious about tortoises that lack color.
    This dark tortoise is now about 9 months old and is growing so slow. Infact the last few months he seems to have had a growing spurt and still only ways 99 grams. My hatchlings at 7 months old are about 160 grams.
    I have 11 hatchlings living together, all with exact same care and all growing smooth except this one. It's driving me mad. It's very active and eats a lot just like the others. Nothing seems abnormal with behavior, but it just won't grow at any pace and it's not smooth.
    Has anyone else ever had a tortoise that no matter what it doesn't seem to be growing at the correct pace and won't grow smooth?

    Some photos below, I've dried him off so purposely showing him at his worst. Actually the photos make him look worse than in real life. Does anyone have any experience with a similar situation. Take note he doesn't show any color at all on his limbs and very little on the head, is there a genetic problem going on here. All 11 torts are from the same mother but from 3 different clutches.
    If I'm honest I've been expecting one morning to find this little guy passed. Like I said he seems to be going through a growing spurt all of a sudden. 2 months back he was literally half size the others.
    IMG_20170512_205522.jpg IMG_20170512_205510.jpg IMG_20170512_205504.jpg IMG_20170512_205457.jpg IMG_20170512_205422.jpg IMG_20170512_205412.jpg IMG_20170512_205404.jpg
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  9. Pearly

    Pearly Well-Known Member

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    Awww Craig, he is a cutie!!!!!don't give up on him! He may yet surprise you:) like Tucker did me
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  10. Anyfoot

    Anyfoot Well-Known Member

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    Well Sirius the one that hatched with no color is 12 months old now. He's growing extremely slow, my 5 month olds are as big as he is, although Siriuses limbs are beefier. Seems to be fit and healthy, just growing slow and not smooth. Some today's photos of him.
    IMG_0724.JPG IMG_0725.JPG IMG_0728.JPG IMG_0729.JPG
  11. MPRC

    MPRC Well-Known Member

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    He does still look like a hatching, interesting.
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  12. William Lee Kohler

    William Lee Kohler Active Member

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    Was going to comment same as I think this too. Interesting all black leg scales like a Galap.
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  13. seanang168

    seanang168 Active Member 5 Year Member

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    Darth Vader!
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  14. Cheryl Hills

    Cheryl Hills Well-Known Member

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    He is still a cutie!
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  15. William Lee Kohler

    William Lee Kohler Active Member

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    Here's a thought. If your little one decided to stay in the shell longer than normal his shell top and bottom started to harden in the round shape that they have while in the egg shell. Does this sound logicalo_O? Could this be supported by the curl under of his rear shell conforming to the curve of the eggshell?
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  16. Anyfoot

    Anyfoot Well-Known Member

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    I hear what your saying William, I've been down the same thought process. Thing is they all hatch out soft and flexible to allow to be curled up in the egg.
    I often wonder if our incubation methods have an impact on how they grow.
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  17. William Lee Kohler

    William Lee Kohler Active Member

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    Did you notice if his shell was any harder than most others you have in the beginning. Even if it had only started to stiffen it could be all the difference in plastral and shell shape. I see he's elongating ok. Has his bottom flattened out? I have a strong feeling that his lack of red pigment is linked to his slow growth and possibly adult size as well. Maybe this one could be the father or mother of a midget race;). As for smoothness I strongly feel you should try plenty of UVB 10 lighting even if he doesn't sit out in the open. It's helped smooth out pyramiding on my 3 adults even if they'll never really be smooth. I don't have a working digital camera and don't use crap cell phones either or could show.
  18. Anyfoot

    Anyfoot Well-Known Member

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    Tbh I didn't notice if he was any less supple or not. Most of my torts hatch out at around 120 days. I had one hatch at 103. Why this one was 182 days is a mystery.
    The plastron is flat put has deep crevices between the scutes. I'll get some photos on Friday when I'm back home.

    I have a 4ft 5.0 uvb set at about 9" above the feeding area. This is on for 14hrs a day.

    Ps. You need to join the 21st century and get a cell phone. If my dad can get with it then you can too. :p
  19. William Lee Kohler

    William Lee Kohler Active Member

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    That's good lighting and what I used before the newer ones came out. I DESPISE cell phones:mad:. The world and all of us were better off before they became the new toy.
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  20. Anyfoot

    Anyfoot Well-Known Member

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    This guy is still not growing much. At 19 months old he only weighs in at 175g. All my others of this age are around the 400g mark.
    Active, eats well, I soak every other day still, but just not growing.

    IMG_2225.JPG IMG_2228.JPG IMG_2232.JPG IMG_2233.JPG IMG_2234.JPG
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