possible bacterial infection?

treefrog010

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Anyone have valid ideas on which to test first...The tortoise or the egg??? I have 9 clutches of redfoot eggs in incubator at present 7 clutches doing fine from 3 females ( all guyanan) however, I have a dwarf cherryhead pair, female 9.25 inch and male 6.75 inch. First year breeding for both. Female laid first clutch above ground, 3 eggs, 1 broken. 2nd clutch, 5 eggs buried. Upon incubation and first candling after 2.5 weeks I found 1 egg clear and 2nd had a dark spot on side of egg (internal) at 2nd candling, 2nd egg smelled and was adled. Now 2nd clutch of 5 at 2.5 week candling 2 of eggs seem to have similar dark spot. Question is? Would you swab female for culture or egg or both to determine if there is an infection present. I have been hatching for 35 yrs but have never had an infection problem
 

treefrog010

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Also. I would like to add to tortadise' thread on incubation techniques. I have hatched 18 species of parrots and water fowl and ostrich, snakes, and 5 species of torts. One very important aspect of incubation seems to have not been mentioned; all eggs have an optimum loss or gain of weight necessary for proper hatch. Tortoises for instance need approximately a 16% loss in weight from start of incubation to hatchdate. I graph needed weight loss either as single eggs or groups of eggs of same species every 2 weeks and adjust humidity to control loss. Also, eggs benefit from a dry down period a week prior to internal (aircell) piping and then 100% humidity after 80% of embryos are in the aircell.anyone wants more detailed explanation, I will answer them.
 

puffy137

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Why not just let them lay their eggs in the ground & leave them alone until they hatch themselves ? Thats been the most successful way for healthy babies for me. :rolleyes:
 

Ferretinmyshoes

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If you try to swab the female you will culture all kinds of bacteria that are not relevant. The vent/cloaca is a common opening for the reproductive tract, urinary bladder and gastrointestinal systems. So you will not be able to swab just the reproductive tract to know if that was the problem because you'd get fecal contamination no matter what. Generally if it is a problem with the female in the form of a bacterial infection she will show symptoms of illness or fertility problems. It sounds like when you open the egg it's gross but you're not seeing a developing embryo. I would be more suspicious that the eggs are either getting contaminated after being laid since the shells are permeable (dirty incubator substrate and/or water) or that they are infertile, which could be a problem with the male or the female. I would start with a deep cleaning of the incubator container and complete replacement of the substrate to eliminate bacterial problems outside the egg that could be affecting them by transmitting internally.
 

puffy137

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As it was the 'first time breeding for both' I suspect as has been mentioned, that one or both are infertile.
 

treefrog010

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[Qappreciateetinmyshoes, post: 976494, member: 24092"]If you try to swab the female you will culture all kinds of bacteria that are not relevant. The vent/cloaca is a common opening for the reproductive tract, urinary bladder and gastrointestinal systems. So you will not be able to swab just the reproductive tract to know if that was the problem because you'd get fecal contamination no matter what. Generally if it is a problem with the female in the form of a bacterial infection she will show symptoms of illness or fertility problems. It sounds like when you open the egg it's gross but you're not seeing a developing embryo. I would be more suspicious that the eggs are either getting contaminated after being laid since the shells are permeable (dirty incubator substrate and/or water) or that they are infertile, which could be a problem with the male or the female. I would start with a deep cleaning of the incubator container and complete replacement of the substrate to eliminate bacterial problems outside the egg that could be affecting them by transmitting internally.[/QUOTE]
I appreciate the thoughts, however I have been hatching eggs for over 35 yrs and I am using a human infant incubator that I have hatched thousands of eggs in. I disenfranchised it completely prior to each year startup and presently have 9 other clutches incubating in it and all are developing correctly. 1 pair of dwarf cherryheads are the animals in question. Both are in good health and show no outward symproms.
 

treefrog010

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[Q $ oUOTE="treefrog010, post: 977172, member: 37346"][Qappreciateetinmyshoes, post: 976494, member: 24092"]If you try to swab the female you will culture all kinds of bacteria that are not relevant. The vent/cloaca is a common opening for the reproductive tract, urinary bladder and gastrointestinal systems. So you will not be able to swab just the reproductive tract to know if that was the problem because you'd get fecal contamination no matter what. Generally if it is a problem with the female in the form of a bacterial infection she will show symptoms of illness or fertility problems. It sounds like when you open the egg it's gross but you're not seeing a developing embryo. I would be more suspicious that the eggs are either getting contaminated after being laid since the shells are permeable (dirty incubator substrate and/or water) or that they are infertile, which could be a problem with the male or the female. I would start with a deep cleaning of the incubator container and complete replacement of the substrate to eliminate bacterial problems outside the egg that could be affecting them by transmitting internally.[/QUOTE]
I appreciate the thoughts, however I have been hatching eggs for over 35 yrs and I am using a human infant incubator that I have hatched thousands of eggs in. I disenfranchised it completely prior to each year startup and presently have 9 other clutches incubating in it and all are developing correctly. 1 pair of dwarf cherryheads are the animals in question. Both are in good health and show no outward symproms.[/QUOTE]
That should have said disinfect it before each seaaon.
 

treefrog010

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I have done a gross necropsy on 1 of the adled eggs and found it had been fertile but died about day 15. Can not culture remains. Don't have a full lab here.
 

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