Diffrence from Babcock and Leo ?

[matt581]

I can't really get an answer what is the Diffrence other than some color?

 

[Jacob]

Look Threw the old leo threads theres a couple of post that identify

 

[coreyc]

Pardalis get bigger usually have two spots on their scutes and have speckled skin here is a pardalis first two pic's are pardalis second is of babacocki

 

[matt581]

Ok nice pics can u breed a Leo and a babacockie together? I kinda want 1 babacockie now lol. Like how much bigger ? There harder to find i think

 

[Neal]

Here's a thread I did on the subject. A Stigmochelys Pardalis babcocki is a leopard tortoise, believed to be from East Africa. Stigmochelys Pardalis Pardalis (Also leopard tortoise) are the type that typically grow bigger and are from South Africa.

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-G-p-pardalis-and-G-p-babcocki#axzz1oI2GHgU3

 

[coreyc]

They are both leopard's (Leo's ) two subspecies Pardalis and babacocki I have one hybrid half pardalis half babacocki but I would not breed the two

 

[wellington]

A Leo short for leopard is a babcocki or pardalis two differenct kinds of a leopard. The pardalis is the larger of the two. I wouldn't mix them, my opinion.

 

[matt581]

Here's a thread I did on the subject. A Stigmochelys Pardalis babcocki is a leopard tortoise, believed to be from East Africa. Stigmochelys Pardalis Pardalis (Also leopard tortoise) are the type that typically grow bigger and are from South Africa.

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-G-p-pardalis-and-G-p-babcocki#axzz1oI2GHgU3

Thank u this helped alot

 

[DesertGrandma]

In addition to what Neal's thread says, I have also heard that there is a difference in the shape of their heads. Has anyone observed this? And, if so, how is the head shape different?

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here is a pardalis first two pic's are pardalis second is of babacocki


@ Coreyc LOL, there are 'four' pics. Is one in the third pic the hybrid?

 

[coreyc]

In addition to what Neal's thread says, I have also heard that there is a difference in the shape of their heads. Has anyone observed this? And, if so, how is the head shape different?

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here is a pardalis first two pic's are pardalis second is of babacocki


@ Coreyc LOL, there are 'four' pics. Is one in the third pic the hybrid?

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No that's just one of my Babacocki heres a pic of the hybrid he is the middle one

 

[DesertGrandma]

It's hard for me to tell much difference in the hybrid. A bit less domed maybe?? His coloring really doesn't look much different does it, or maybe a little less white. What do you think? How does his skin color compare?

 

[Neal]

In addition to what Neal's thread says, I have also heard that there is a difference in the shape of their heads. Has anyone observed this? And, if so, how is the head shape different?

I've looked long and hard at our babcocki and pardalis together and I can see a difference...but it's so subtle it's hard to describe. It's kind of like the heads of the pardalis are more narrow and pointed...almost like a bird. The babcocki heads are a little more stubby and blunt. Egyptiandan pointed out to me that the eyes are different as well. The eyes of the pardalis are a little higher on the head, I have a hard time seeing this in the ones I have.

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It's hard for me to tell much difference in the hybrid. A bit less domed maybe?? His coloring really doesn't look much different does it, or maybe a little less white. What do you think? How does his skin color compare?

In this case Paul knew the genetics of the adults that produced it. My opinion is that unless you can confirm the genetics of the leopard tortoise, it is babcocki.

 

[DesertGrandma]

Thanks Neal for the explanations. I wonder sometimes if the differences are just because they occupied a different geographic area for so long that their characteristics changed in order to survive, instead of being actual "subspecies." I know a lot of people will not agree with this, but it is true in humans. We don't call ourselves different species because we have developed different characteristics due to generations in one area of the world. We call ourselves caucasion, black, Asian, Norwegian, etc. but we don't label ourselves as different subspecies. Hmmm....things that make you go hmm hmm hmm. Scientists will debate this forever I guess.

 

[coreyc]

It's hard for me to tell much difference in the hybrid. A bit less domed maybe?? His coloring really doesn't look much different does it, or maybe a little less white. What do you think? How does his skin color compare?

He look's like a regular babcocki to me to just going by what I was told the two on the right are from Paul I was thinking that the hybrid would grow a little faster but as you can see the one on the far right (babcocki )is much bigger they both where the same size when I got them

 

[DesertGrandma]

Corey the one on the right looks just like my Humphrey (not a hybrid, he is also from Paul and was from his Haiku tortoise). I think yours and mine are related, maybe from the same clutch hatched in April 2011.

 

[coreyc]

Corey the one on the right looks just like my Humphrey (not a hybrid, he is also from Paul and was from his Haiku tortoise). I think yours and mine are related, maybe from the same clutch hatched in April 2011.

Could be I was just looking at my records mine was hatched May 14 the hybrid was the 13 how much does yours weigh ?

 

[DesertGrandma]

Corey the one on the right looks just like my Humphrey (not a hybrid, he is also from Paul and was from his Haiku tortoise). I think yours and mine are related, maybe from the same clutch hatched in April 2011.

Could be I was just looking at my records mine was hatched May 14 the hybrid was the 13 how much does yours weigh ?

He hatched on 4-12-11 and the last time I weighed him he was at 185 grams, probably more now. That was a week or so ago. He has been having a big growth spurt.