Does this look ok (sulcata)

randomdemon

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*Edited to add* He does have another, more enclosed, moist hide, it was just being cleaned when I took these photos, it's situated in the empty space in the back left corner...

It's a 4ft x 2ft and is enclosed.

Substrate is coco coir with orchid bark underneath.

Plants are all checked via the tortoise table and various other sources and deemed safe (there are some more seedings to come yet when they're big enough not to be devoured in 10 minutes).

Left side is currently at 86% humidity and 26⁰c and right side is at 80% humidity and 30⁰c.

Temperature doesn't fluctuate much but humidity can depending on how much I need to open the enclosure. The warmer end can drop to 77% (lowest I've seen it) but in contrast, the 'cooler', humid end never drops below 80% and often reaches the high 90s.

Under the basking light is 37⁰c (basking light is actually an incandescent flood light that I could only find on amazon as they're being phased out here which leads me to a question, what would you advise when these bulbs are no longer available? (I've stocked up but it's going to be inevitable).

Overnight it's heated with a heat panel on a thermostat. In the day it's heated mostly by the basking light.

UV is currently from an Arcadia 12% HO tube but I have that posh reptisun LED thingy coming (sorry can't quite remember it's proper name off the top of my head) and the uv measuring device is in my basket but will have to wait for payday now.

He's having daily soaks which he doesn't particularly love and either tries to escape the entire time or falls asleep but he's a very amiable little guy and quite bold now. He was timid last week but will now try to push my hand out of his way or barge past if I'm doing something in his enclosure and he thinks he needs to get past!

Wees and poops are fine, usually poops after his soak.

So I was told he hatched in February and when he arrived I double checked at he is smaller than I was expecting but I was assured the last few they had were just tiny but, he looks to still have his egg tooth? And his plastron still has very clear marks/scarring from the yolk sac? (I'll get a pic of this later).

These are his stats and some pictures taken yesterday, please let me know what you think and if I can improve on this in any way I'm open to suggestions.

I did think I was well researched before getting this tortoise and have been planning for over a year but unfortunately, I was well researched on the wrong advice, so yes, he was started off dry but he did have hides (although not humid) and 1 soak per week before he came to me and I've been caring for him like this from day 1. I'm moving forward and still learning now so please don't be too harsh, I'm doing my best.



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Tom

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Your temps and humidity all sound fine.

If he's pooping after the soak, you need to let him soak longer.

If this tortoise hatched in February, something is terribly wrong with it. At 7 months old it should be literally 10 times that weight. The egg Toth disappears within 6 weeks, so if you are still seeing one, this is a hatchling. Mine hatch at about 35 grams. They are over 40 grams by the time I move them out of the brooder box and into their first enclosure at about 8-10 days old. They are over 50 grams in their first month.

It is clear you are doing your best. No one here has anything bad to say to you or about you. We are here to talk tortoises and do what we can to help you succeed. This little tortoise is lucky it found its way to you.
 

Alex and the Redfoot

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*Edited to add* He does have another, more enclosed, moist hide, it was just being cleaned when I took these photos, it's situated in the empty space in the back left corner...

It's a 4ft x 2ft and is enclosed.

Substrate is coco coir with orchid bark underneath.

Plants are all checked via the tortoise table and various other sources and deemed safe (there are some more seedings to come yet when they're big enough not to be devoured in 10 minutes).

Left side is currently at 86% humidity and 26⁰c and right side is at 80% humidity and 30⁰c.

Temperature doesn't fluctuate much but humidity can depending on how much I need to open the enclosure. The warmer end can drop to 77% (lowest I've seen it) but in contrast, the 'cooler', humid end never drops below 80% and often reaches the high 90s.

Under the basking light is 37⁰c (basking light is actually an incandescent flood light that I could only find on amazon as they're being phased out here which leads me to a question, what would you advise when these bulbs are no longer available? (I've stocked up but it's going to be inevitable).

Overnight it's heated with a heat panel on a thermostat. In the day it's heated mostly by the basking light.

UV is currently from an Arcadia 12% HO tube but I have that posh reptisun LED thingy coming (sorry can't quite remember it's proper name off the top of my head) and the uv measuring device is in my basket but will have to wait for payday now.

He's having daily soaks which he doesn't particularly love and either tries to escape the entire time or falls asleep but he's a very amiable little guy and quite bold now. He was timid last week but will now try to push my hand out of his way or barge past if I'm doing something in his enclosure and he thinks he needs to get past!

Wees and poops are fine, usually poops after his soak.

So I was told he hatched in February and when he arrived I double checked at he is smaller than I was expecting but I was assured the last few they had were just tiny but, he looks to still have his egg tooth? And his plastron still has very clear marks/scarring from the yolk sac? (I'll get a pic of this later).

These are his stats and some pictures taken yesterday, please let me know what you think and if I can improve on this in any way I'm open to suggestions.

I did think I was well researched before getting this tortoise and have been planning for over a year but unfortunately, I was well researched on the wrong advice, so yes, he was started off dry but he did have hides (although not humid) and 1 soak per week before he came to me and I've been caring for him like this from day 1. I'm moving forward and still learning now so please don't be too harsh, I'm doing my best.



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Just one thought on this (everything else sounds fine to me):
> UV is currently from an Arcadia 12% HO tube but I have that posh reptisun LED thingy coming

T5 fluorescent tubes are better than UVB LEDs at this moment of time. LEDs have narrow UVB spectrum and emit wavelengths that trigger producing of vitamin D3, but don't emit wavelengths that control overproducing. With right timings for the lamp you can mitigate this but I would stick to T5 lights for now.

Solarmeter 6.5 is definitely a worthful investment.
 

The_Four_Toed_Edward

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Your temps and humidity all sound fine.

If he's pooping after the soak, you need to let him soak longer.

If this tortoise hatched in February, something is terribly wrong with it. At 7 months old it should be literally 10 times that weight. The egg Toth disappears within 6 weeks, so if you are still seeing one, this is a hatchling. Mine hatch at about 35 grams. They are over 40 grams by the time I move them out of the brooder box and into their first enclosure at about 8-10 days old. They are over 50 grams in their first month.

It is clear you are doing your best. No one here has anything bad to say to you or about you. We are here to talk tortoises and do what we can to help you succeed. This little tortoise is lucky it found its way to you.
So you mean that either the breeder lied about the hatch date or did something terribly wrong. Or both?
 

randomdemon

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Your temps and humidity all sound fine.

If he's pooping after the soak, you need to let him soak longer.

If this tortoise hatched in February, something is terribly wrong with it. At 7 months old it should be literally 10 times that weight. The egg Toth disappears within 6 weeks, so if you are still seeing one, this is a hatchling. Mine hatch at about 35 grams. They are over 40 grams by the time I move them out of the brooder box and into their first enclosure at about 8-10 days old. They are over 50 grams in their first month.

It is clear you are doing your best. No one here has anything bad to say to you or about you. We are here to talk tortoises and do what we can to help you succeed. This little tortoise is lucky it found its way to you.
I am obviously still a novice but at this point I'm pretty sure the breeder has lied and sent me a hatchling. Whilst this initially made me quite anxious to be looking after such a young one, knowing what I do now, i'm glad as if this is the case, at least he's had minimal time growing in damaging conditions so I'm now hoping that is the case and he is infact, just weeks old.
 

randomdemon

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Just one thought on this (everything else sounds fine to me):
> UV is currently from an Arcadia 12% HO tube but I have that posh reptisun LED thingy coming

T5 fluorescent tubes are better than UVB LEDs at this moment of time. LEDs have narrow UVB spectrum and emit wavelengths that trigger producing of vitamin D3, but don't emit wavelengths that control overproducing. With right timings for the lamp you can mitigate this but I would stick to T5 lights for now.

Solarmeter 6.5 is definitely a worthful investment.
This is the one I have ordered but if the T5s are the better option then I'll send it back and stick with them, thank you!

 

Tom

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Sorry, just realised the pic of the enclosure didn't upload . . .

View attachment 376867
Looks good. He needs a humid hide. Open fronted hides don't stay humid enough.

Terra cotta saucers offer better traction for food and water. Those will be too slippery.

I use the ZooMed LED UV bars. They seem to work fine, but I have more trust in the Arcadia ProT5 12% kits. The LED types are very new, and there is some evidence to suggest the the UV band is too narrow and precise on some of them. The ZooMed one uses several other light emitting diodes in addition to the UV emitting ones, so I think they are okay, but it is still an unknown. I've been using the new ZooMed types over lizards and tortoises, and I have no problems to report, but those animals are also getting sunshine regularly. My Solarmeter 6.5 gives me good numbers under the LEDs even through screen, but I'm not 100% convinced that they are completely safe and effective yet. More data is needed and more people using them will give me more confidence in them. You would make a good case study since the tortoise will be exclusively indoors most of every year with no access to direct sunshine due to your weather and climate.
 

randomdemon

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Looks good. He needs a humid hide. Open fronted hides don't stay humid enough.

Terra cotta saucers offer better traction for food and water. Those will be too slippery.

I use the ZooMed LED UV bars. They seem to work fine, but I have more trust in the Arcadia ProT5 12% kits. The LED types are very new, and there is some evidence to suggest the the UV band is too narrow and precise on some of them. The ZooMed one uses several other light emitting diodes in addition to the UV emitting ones, so I think they are okay, but it is still an unknown. I've been using the new ZooMed types over lizards and tortoises, and I have no problems to report, but those animals are also getting sunshine regularly. My Solarmeter 6.5 gives me good numbers under the LEDs even through screen, but I'm not 100% convinced that they are completely safe and effective yet. More data is needed and more people using them will give me more confidence in them. You would make a good case study since the tortoise will be exclusively indoors most of every year with no access to direct sunshine due to your weather and climate.
He does have a more closed in humid hide, sorry I mentioned in the OP but the pic didn't load, it was just in the sink to get washed as I'd just planted everything and it was covered in the coco soil.

I have been looking for some terracotta saucers but they have all been either glazed on the inside or had a hole in the middle so I'm struggling a bit with that one but I'm going to a large garden center today so fingers crossed. If not I'll chance getting some online but it's hard to tell if the insides are glazed or not from pictures, most of them seem to be.

Worst case scenario, we have a kiln at work so I could make all sorts but I'm not back until after the summer (I teach).

I have a huge shed already to dedicate to him, more of an outhouse really. Planning on building a heated night box and putting in a low, insulated ceiling and insulating the walls and putting in a 'tortoise door' to the outside when it's warm enough.

I'm well versed at keeping animals warm in outdoor enclosures at least, I've previously built, insulated rabbit and guinea pig hutches, outdoor dog and cat houses, all of which have kept perfect temps year round so I'm pretty confident on that part when the time comes but I actually have a small room that I'm going to gut out for him first, it has outdoor access and is currently only used to house the tumble dryer and for storage so he won't even need the shed until he is approaching full size.

Sorry for the ramble!



You'd be surprised at the weather, he'll actually be able to enjoy maybe part of May, June and then July - September should be fine, just depends really. We will really need to just play it by ear but at least humidity shouldn't be too hard to keep right here. Yesterday it was at 90% outside!
 

randomdemon

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Here are some pics, let me know what you think. He also passed urates for the very first time today so I'm taking that as a positive.

(I do keep calling 'him' a 'he' but obviously I have no idea. 'His' name is Jupiter.)

Egg tooth?
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Tom

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I'm well versed at keeping animals warm in outdoor enclosures at least...
You definitely have a young hatchling there. Probably around a month old.

Mammals generate their own heat. There would be no reason to keep them anywhere near as warm as a tropical giant reptile. Most people don't realize how large, active. and destructive a giant tortoise will be, they don't realize how much space they need, and they don't realize how warm they need it or how difficult and expensive it is to maintain that sort of heat in a cold climate. I would not have chosen this species in your climate, but I wish you the best of luck.
 

randomdemon

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You definitely have a young hatchling there. Probably around a month old.

Mammals generate their own heat. There would be no reason to keep them anywhere near as warm as a tropical giant reptile. Most people don't realize how large, active. and destructive a giant tortoise will be, they don't realize how much space they need, and they don't realize how warm they need it or how difficult and expensive it is to maintain that sort of heat in a cold climate. I would not have chosen this species in your climate, but I wish you the best of luck.
Of course, a tortoise is nothing like a mammal and I appreciate that. I suppose I was just trying to illustrate that although I am a reptile novice, I'm not altogether a complete animal novice and whilst I also appreciate that the climate here is far from natural for this species, I have not taken this decision lightly. I have spent countless hours over nigh on two years now looking at every common species of pet tortoise (and some not so common ones) before finally getting this guy and have done so with the full belief that I can provide him with the highest standard of living that the UK has to offer.

In saying this I absolutely do get where you're coming from Tom. I'm a dog person too and have owned, trained and shown dogs for over 20 years. I'm a fully fledged, self certified dog nerd and I do feel this, I have been on the other side in regards to the breed choices that people make - and why - and then expect a magic wand to stop their border collie from herding their toddler or their husky from climbing the walls while they're at work all day. I only hope that I can prove to be the exception here.

Thank you for all of your advice.
 

randomdemon

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Found the terracotta dishes and put the humid hide back in. The fine orchid bark arrived so put that in over the coco soil, just because it's a million times easier to clean out of the dishes 50 x a day. It's at 90% humidity and 27⁰c on the left, 82% humidity and 30⁰c on the right. I'm really pleased to see how much he is enjoying exploring this and how much bolder he's becoming every day. He is now running to wait for his food dish to come back every time I clean it out. He's eating really well and had opuntia today for the first time which he immediately devoured!
 

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