Dogs In Public?

Tom

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Sadly here ppl have ruined it for me with their dogs. So again it is the ppl not the dogs fault. I love my dogs but they stay home.

Some ppl around here think they can bring their dogs into stores let them pee/poo all over the place and they leave it. This happens in Walmart, Kroger, Costco, HD, Lowes you name it. All sorts or places. It's is not very often but it happens enough. Now the ones that really **** me off is the stores with food. I've seen dogs dart all over/ jumping on ppl, the owners can't control them or just can't be bothered, barking or trying to attack another dog they see. Ppl don't care and they know that the stores can't ask them to leave because I'm told it is against the law to ask because they cannot be asked if they have a service animal. So it continues over and over and will get worse as this sense of entitlement continues.
I want to offer some clarification about the service dog questions. Anyone can legally ask two questions of a person with a service dog:
1. Is that a service dog?
2. What duty does it perform in service to you?

That's it. Nothing else. So any store manager can ask any of these people these two questions, and ask them to remove the dog from the premises if it is not a genuine service dog doing its duty. It is a federal offense to lie about it, so its no joke.

I see dogs in those same stores around here, but I have not seen those problems, thank goodness. I have have seen those problems with people traveling with phony service dogs in airports. Its disgusting on one hand, but on the other hand, the airlines have made it all but impossible to travel your dogs any other way. More and more rules, and more and more ignorant people enforcing those rules, or making up new ones as they go. I travel with dogs through airports several times a year, and have done so for 30 years as part of my job, so I have seen a lot of non-sense that simply shouldn't be. I had one little jerk of a man in New Orleans that wouldn't let my 65 pound dog fly home in a crate made for a 125 pound dog. He said the crate was too small for the dog. His boss in another state backed him up. He had the customer service managers for two different airlines telling him to let me fly, and he refused. The first time it happened, I had to drive home in February. I got hit by an ice storm going through Texas and thought I was going to die. The second time it happened, I went around the little A-hole and did this:
photo copy.JPG
One service dog and one celebrity dog. I tried and tried really really hard to ship them the way we were supposed to, but that control freak whacko wouldn't let me.

I've had similar problems all over the country and all over the world from Mexico to Morocco. I fly out of LAX with no problems ever. Crate size? Check. Bowls? Check. Bedding? Check. Health cert? Check. Rabies cert? Check... When I try to fly home with the same dogs in the same crates from NYC, New Orleans, Orlando, Chicago, etc... I get nothing but problems and have to literally argue my way home. Its not fun, and they can simply say "no" anytime they feel like it for any whim of a reason. When I see those people in the airports with their dogs jumping around, pooping on the floor, or barking incessantly, I wonder if some jackass at cargo refused to let them fly for some arbitrary ridiculous reason. I think of the pitiful little man in the cargo terminal at New Orleans. What are people to do when left with no other option? Some people choose to lie in a desperate effort to get home with their dog, and the dog is not ready for that sort of thing. We spend months getting any dog ready for air travel. Some of the dogs I've seen in the airport aren't even ready for a walk around their own block.

The airlines have been cracking down on this, so I've seen a lot less of this in recent years. I have seen a whole lot more doggy day care, boarding center type places popping up though...
 

wellington

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That is true, but some do put the time in when they can, and more could if their dogs were allowed in more places or could go to work with them. I've been to quite a few business where the employees can bring their dogs to work daily. I didn't see any problems at any of these places. If there were people who didn't like it, they sure hid it well.
I don't think very many more would. Your life and business is dogs and other animals. Most is not and most don't want 24/7 dogs.
I have had many animals over the years. I love animals much more than humans. A lot of my life and most of my jobs involved dogs mostly along with other animals. I don't want to be with them 24/7. I don't want to be with only one human 24/7. People for the majority just want a pet, or fury family member. There's nothing wrong with that. You wanting them with you all the time, nothing wrong with that, one is no better than the other.
I don't want to eat in a restaurant with a bunch of dogs. I wouldn't care if there were a separate section for those with dogs. Be nice if there were a sperate section for those with kids too. Let people chose to eat with dogs or not. However, it won't stop there. Just like the BS support animals. Give me a break. More phoney ones than legit and you will get the same if dogs were allowed every place. Next it would be ducks, pigs, chickens, etc.
 

Megatron's Mom

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I want to offer some clarification about the service dog questions. Anyone can legally ask two questions of a person with a service dog:
1. Is that a service dog?
2. What duty does it perform in service to you?

That's it. Nothing else. So any store manager can ask any of these people these two questions, and ask them to remove the dog from the premises if it is not a genuine service dog doing its duty. It is a federal offense to lie about it, so its no joke.

I see dogs in those same stores around here, but I have not seen those problems, thank goodness. I have have seen those problems with people traveling with phony service dogs in airports. Its disgusting on one hand, but on the other hand, the airlines have made it all but impossible to travel your dogs any other way. More and more rules, and more and more ignorant people enforcing those rules, or making up new ones as they go. I travel with dogs through airports several times a year, and have done so for 30 years as part of my job, so I have seen a lot of non-sense that simply shouldn't be. I had one little jerk of a man in New Orleans that wouldn't let my 65 pound dog fly home in a crate made for a 125 pound dog. He said the crate was too small for the dog. His boss in another state backed him up. He had the customer service managers for two different airlines telling him to let me fly, and he refused. The first time it happened, I had to drive home in February. I got hit by an ice storm going through Texas and thought I was going to die. The second time it happened, I went around the little A-hole and did this:
View attachment 368392
One service dog and one celebrity dog. I tried and tried really really hard to ship them the way we were supposed to, but that control freak whacko wouldn't let me.

I've had similar problems all over the country and all over the world from Mexico to Morocco. I fly out of LAX with no problems ever. Crate size? Check. Bowls? Check. Bedding? Check. Health cert? Check. Rabies cert? Check... When I try to fly home with the same dogs in the same crates from NYC, New Orleans, Orlando, Chicago, etc... I get nothing but problems and have to literally argue my way home. Its not fun, and they can simply say "no" anytime they feel like it for any whim of a reason. When I see those people in the airports with their dogs jumping around, pooping on the floor, or barking incessantly, I wonder if some jackass at cargo refused to let them fly for some arbitrary ridiculous reason. I think of the pitiful little man in the cargo terminal at New Orleans. What are people to do when left with no other option? Some people choose to lie in a desperate effort to get home with their dog, and the dog is not ready for that sort of thing. We spend months getting any dog ready for air travel. Some of the dogs I've seen in the airport aren't even ready for a walk around their own block.

The airlines have been cracking down on this, so I've seen a lot less of this in recent years. I have seen a whole lot more doggy day care, boarding center type places popping up though...
I have no experience with airports and planes. We drive when we go anywhere. Sadly no overseas travel for us anytime soon. I can definitely see the plus side of dogs in the plane with you vs cargo.

We went to Costco today to pick up another Hibiscus plant. Once again a couple puts their dachshund in the buggy. He argued with the door person and was told he had to carry her and couldn't put her back in the cart. I've been told by a few ppl it was against the law to ask. Maybe it's just fear and they think that is it, because the stores are afraid to be sued.

I'm far from a great dog trainer, my dogs are not unruly most of the time. I have 4 dachshunds and a Labrador. The doxies can be dumb as rocks at times. But they are house broken and pretty chill even around little kids. My lab is amazing but doesn't know personal space and will step on toes. But they stay home when we go out. We have quite a few doggy daycare around here too. Plenty of dog parks for ppl too. I'm not a fan of the dog parks myself. Tends to bring out some weirdos.
 

COmtnLady

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First - I like critters better than people.

Next - I think there is some kind of rule that to live in Colorado you have to have dog and know the roster of the Broncos.


In college I helped "sight impaired" people. I'd read their text books and assignments onto tape for them, generally explain what had come up in class, and things like that. (One, who'd been blind since birth, took a brain chemistry and physiology class that I can't figure out why their councilor even oked it because it was clearly created for nursing/pre-med students and this person wasn't going in that direction, plus it was WAY over their head.) Anyhow, the situation was this person also didn't discipline their guide dog. It jumped on people and generally acted like any goofy spoiled pet. It would even sneak food from her plate when it could. About the only thing it didn't do wrong was bark during class. I was REALLY concerned it was going to lead them both into traffic and get them hurt or killed. The owner would laugh and pet it when it did wrong things, then when the behavior was completely out of hand and this person couldn't get the dog to sit or some other very basic command, would be befuddled as to why no one wanted to be around them, or help them.

The problem wasn't the dog, it was the owner reinforcing bad behavior.

I also cleaned for some people who had a Springer Spaniel who I was afraid to be alone with. The owners treated it like a "purse pet", but it was a completely undisciplined hunting dog. Every part of its nature that should have been controlled was unwittingly encouraged. The UPS man would come to the door and the dog would act like Cujo, with the owner wrestling to hang onto it, or keep a leg between the dog and the guy at the door. It wouldn't come when she called it so she would get some treat to get it to come, basically reinforcing that if you come when I call, you get nothing, but if you take your own sweet time I will give you a reward. They would laugh when the dog grabbed stuff off the counter, saying how cute and clever it was.

The problem wasn't the dog, it was the owner reinforcing bad behavior.


So - it would be nice if calm, not aggressive, and trained dogs could hang out with us wherever we go, but too many idiots have ruined their pets and that ruins it for all of us.
 

wellington

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Now, on airlines, I would never fly a dog unless it could be with me.
Flew a puppy years ago in my showing days. One I just bought. It had to go cargo. A week later it died, pneumonia. Can't prove it was the airlines fault, but it sure wasn't mine! Would never do it again.
I wouldn't mind flying with dogs. But, then again, the first time one takes a big 💩 or vomits all over, well, I wouldn't be to thrilled.
 

wellington

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First - I like critters better than people.

Next - I think there is some kind of rule that to live in Colorado you have to have dog and know the roster of the Broncos.


In college I helped "sight impaired" people. I'd read their text books and assignments onto tape for them, generally explain what had come up in class, and things like that. (One, who'd been blind since birth, took a brain chemistry and physiology class that I can't figure out why their councilor even oked it because it was clearly created for nursing/pre-med students and this person wasn't going in that direction, plus it was WAY over their head.) Anyhow, the situation was this person also didn't discipline their guide dog. It jumped on people and generally acted like any goofy spoiled pet. It would even sneak food from her plate when it could. About the only thing it didn't do wrong was bark during class. I was REALLY concerned it was going to lead them both into traffic and get them hurt or killed. The owner would laugh and pet it when it did wrong things, then when the behavior was completely out of hand and this person couldn't get the dog to sit or some other very basic command, would be befuddled as to why no one wanted to be around them, or help them.

The problem wasn't the dog, it was the owner reinforcing bad behavior.

I also cleaned for some people who had a Springer Spaniel who I was afraid to be alone with. The owners treated it like a "purse pet", but it was a completely undisciplined hunting dog. Every part of its nature that should have been controlled was unwittingly encouraged. The UPS man would come to the door and the dog would act like Cujo, with the owner wrestling to hang onto it, or keep a leg between the dog and the guy at the door. It wouldn't come when she called it so she would get some treat to get it to come, basically reinforcing that if you come when I call, you get nothing, but if you take your own sweet time I will give you a reward. They would laugh when the dog grabbed stuff off the counter, saying how cute and clever it was.

The problem wasn't the dog, it was the owner reinforcing bad behavior.


So - it would be nice if calm, not aggressive, and trained dogs could hang out with us wherever we go, but too many idiots have ruined their pets and that ruins it for all of us.
That's the kind of dog you will see more in restaurants etc. Who wants to deal with that on a night out.
 

wellington

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Also, think of this. Who has the right to say one dog isn't trained while another is? Maybe one dog is just as trained as the other. But one has drool all the time while the other doesn't.
One has issues with shaking its head a lot but the other doesn't.
Who are "YOU"(anyone here) to say your dog or that dog is better trained?
People all being different puts up with different things.
Someone's dog sits at their table, that's not okay with me. Some people let their cats walk on tables and counters, that's not okay with me. So who is right, them or me? We both are within our own four walls. That's the only place "your way" is the right way.
 

Ink

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I don't like dogs being in the carts. Why don't people think of others with allergies???? If your dog can fit in the cart so can a child with allergies. Give my kid a peanut and I will see you in the hospital or worse. I just wish people were more respectful of others and their needs.
 

KarenSoCal

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What you both are missing, is that most people with dogs as a pet and no other experience except having them as a pet are clueless, specially the younger generations. The idea that oh well, you got bit by my dog, just put a bandaid on it is wrong and a dog that should not be in public until better trained or muzzled. That's ignorant that it's okay that a dog bites someone. That's most dog pet owners attitude and why their dogs should be left at home!
The laws that dogs can't be left in cars is a great leap forward for dogs. Way too many have died or almost died being left in cars. I can just about guarantee you, no one agreeing with you takes the steps you do to be sure your dogs are safe in the car and likely don't have to be in the car as much as yours. Remember, your dogs are well trained and is part of your job.
You may not leave your dog unattended tied to a pole, but people do it all the time. Not every dog has the fear on their face but most do. They look scared to death, staring at the last place they seen their owners.
As for dogs at festivals/art shows, seen it every time I have gone, which was usually a couple times a summer, not so much any more. Yes, small dogs and larger dogs. Once in a while a small dog might be carried. Again though, your dogs are trained and used to having to be in crowds and around a lot of different things, most other dogs are not.
As for a muzzle law, ridiculous! I will never put a muzzle on my dogs in order for it to go in public with me. Training needs to be done not a muzzle and if you can't do that then leave it home! Please don't explain how a muzzle is used or safe or not restrictive. I know all about them and dogs. Most of my life jobs have been with dogs/animals, besides raising, training (confirmation and obedience) and showing my own.

Gosh, Barb! Nowhere in my post do I say it's OK for a dog to bite someone! What I did say was that I don't think owners and others should be sued over incidents that involve very minor injuries. I also think that an assumption is made that it's always the dog's fault, when in reality, I believe the person is, at least often, as responsible as the dog.

I can't help but wonder why you are so angry at the thought of a law to muzzle in public. I think that even @Tom may agree that no amount of training is a 100% guarantee that a particular dog will never nip or bite. The training makes it far less likely to happen, but it could happen.

You "know all about them and dogs". Maybe you have only ever seen a muzzle used in a cruel way, or it reminds you of a horrible experience. If that is the case I'm sorry that happened to you. But muzzles can be used in kind ways too, protecting that dog from making a terrible decision that could, through our legal system, end its life.
 

Maggie3fan

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Our 360 Modena has a tubi exhaust that is semi loud but you don't hear it for long and it's not annoying... The Mercedes SLK, 2022 Mustang (0-60 just under 3) and Lincoln continental are quiet. Expedition has headers and exhaust -w- a new engine -w- 9,000 miles but it's a truck (for getting sulcata supplies) so...

My next door neighbor has 3 boys that can drive and they have a Tesla plaid. Will smoke most everything so at this point it's what you like. That thing is more like a modern rollercoaster... Top Fuel now...0-366mph in <4 seconds, that's doing something. One day I would like to take a pass -w- a vehicle that has no oil and uses the fuel only for lube. :)
My car is a 1989 Camaro IROC, running a 9 year old LT1 engine that will, I guarantee, put all your vehicles in the dirt...with maybe, the exception of the Tesla...100_0409.JPG
 

Maggie3fan

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Gosh, Barb! Nowhere in my post do I say it's OK for a dog to bite someone! What I did say was that I don't think owners and others should be sued over incidents that involve very minor injuries. I also think that an assumption is made that it's always the dog's fault, when in reality, I believe the person is, at least often, as responsible as the dog.

I can't help but wonder why you are so angry at the thought of a law to muzzle in public. I think that even @Tom may agree that no amount of training is a 100% guarantee that a particular dog will never nip or bite. The training makes it far less likely to happen, but it could happen.

You "know all about them and dogs". Maybe you have only ever seen a muzzle used in a cruel way, or it reminds you of a horrible experience. If that is the case I'm sorry that happened to you. But muzzles can be used in kind ways too, protecting that dog from making a terrible decision that could, through our legal system, end its life.
I had to go to the hospital for a procedure...so I have checked in and now am sitting in a waiting room with 9 other people...all scrolling on a Smart phone, I was THE ONLY person reading from an actual book...anyway...this woman comes in with an Australian Shepherd, the dog is in a perfect "heel" position, the leash is loose, the dog has the proper vest and one of those more modern muzzles that is just a strap. I'm just watching the dog out of interest in his manners, she gets in a line and stops, the dog sits, she goes, he's right there. Every hair of his being was focused on her. She signs in and sits fairly close to me...Ruff is laying down, but I can hear him pant...and I am deaf as a post...his sides are heaving, and he gets nervous when kids get close. He cannot open his jaw, he cannot get his tongue out between his teeth...He has his upper lip in a snarl position, but I see it's how he is breathing...crap! He looks in distress to me..dilemma...Ruff is obviously very well trained, but even I, the not a dog person, can see he is having a hard time, do I say something? Do I mind my business? Oh yipee that's MY name...so off I go...but I was bothered, so I asked for the office manager while I was waiting for my Dr...and I told the manager, in essence, giving the dilemma over to her...what should I have done?
 

wellington

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Gosh, Barb! Nowhere in my post do I say it's OK for a dog to bite someone! What I did say was that I don't think owners and others should be sued over incidents that involve very minor injuries. I also think that an assumption is made that it's always the dog's fault, when in reality, I believe the person is, at least often, as responsible as the dog.

I can't help but wonder why you are so angry at the thought of a law to muzzle in public. I think that even @Tom may agree that no amount of training is a 100% guarantee that a particular dog will never nip or bite. The training makes it far less likely to happen, but it could happen.

You "know all about them and dogs". Maybe you have only ever seen a muzzle used in a cruel way, or it reminds you of a horrible experience. If that is the case I'm sorry that happened to you. But muzzles can be used in kind ways too, protecting that dog from making a terrible decision that could, through our legal system, end its life.
I agree people sue nowadays over everything. But a dog that bites someone is not a well trained dog and should not be allowed to be in restaurants, airplanes, etc. it needs better training or to stay home. The way you said it, geez, just put a bandaid on it, or similar, is the same kind of attitude that shouldn't have a dog in public. Maybe shouldn't even own a dog. It is always the humans fault, well at least 99% of the time. If you don't know your dog, then don't let it even get close to people so it can't bite. 99% of the time, there is a tell take sign that a dog doesn't like a certain person or another dog, etc. people that don't want to put the time and money in to learn their dog and train their dog should not be allowed to have them around everyone else's space.
As for muzzles, never a bad experience with them. Never had to use them either on my dogs. But, there again, roping all dogs the same, putting a muzzle on to walk a dog. I'd rather know that if one has a muzzle on, it's likely a vicious dog or likely one with more propensities to be vicious. That's a sign anyone should be able to read.
If anything has a mouth it can bite. However it's not likely a friendly well trained dog that would. The exception to that is if it's hurt or being abused by someone. Even then so many have a reason to bite and they don't.
As much as I love dogs, too many stupid people have them and for those reasons, the dogs should not be allowed every place unless an option to not be around them is available.
Picture this. Those pictures you might see on social media about the disgusting Walmart people, dressed disgustingly and most of them dirty looking. You wouldn't want to sit next to them at a restaurant, they might even make you leave the restaurant altogether from their actions and/or smell. Now imagine those same people, allowed to bring their dog. Do you think the dog is going to be clean and small nice or trained?
Out of all the people I know that have dogs. Almost every family member and handful of friends. All the dogs are part of their family Trained good enough for their family, like most family dogs are. Typical training first stage. Sit, stay, walking on a leash,etc. None of the typical training most people do is good enough to be in public places and usually is never carried thru once they "graduate".
 
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