Dry Shell?

[Jenncure]

I started giving Henry daily baths when his shell started looking dry, but now I think it looks even drier. Any ideas? His humidity is 40-60%, and I don't want to risk dry rot. I was considering applying coconut oil to his shell. Does that sound like a good plan of action?

 

[wellington]

Not sure about coconut oil, but there is other stuff you can use. However, the name of them I can't think of right now. Someone will be able to give some suggestions.

 

[Minority1]

Vita shell:
http://www.petsolutions.com/C/Reptile-Vitamins-Supplements/I/Vita-Shell.aspx

I would probably try to find the reason before resorting to using these products.
Can you explain in detail your setup and when the problem started?

 

[tortoise007]

just mist his shell every day.

 

[mctlong]

In addition to soaking, I'll apply a light rubbing of olive oil to my Russian's shell when it starts to look too dry. This is controversial on this forum, but I've been doing it for years and my RT's shell looks great.

 

[Jenncure]

Thanks everyone. Henry is in a 3x3 enclosure with organic soil substrate. 95 degrees basking temp 75 degrees cool side, with MVB for UV. He eats spring mix and dandelion/carrot tops/arugula/whatever else we can find or forage. He gets TNT supplement 3xweek and just planted Russian seed mix from Carolina Pet Supply. I do rinse off his shell daily during his bath as well. I like the idea of using natural olive or coconut oils on his shell, in case some washes out in the bath which he frequently drinks from

 

[tortoise007]

do you give him any weeds or grasses? these should make up most of your torts diet, not fruits and veggies.

 

[Jenncure]

The spring mix had weeds plus dandelion. Once the seed mix comes in, he will get a lot more.

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

Jen, what is your tortoise's substrate? It should be something that will retain moisture without being wet. I recommend pure coco coir, but others have used cypress mulch, soil, and/or orchid bark with success. Just keep it moist (not damp) by adding water periodically and mixing it around. Spraying doesn't work very well unless you live somewhere that's already very humid, or the enclosure is covered, neither of which is necessary or even desirable for a Russian.

Your ambient humidity of 40-60% is great for a Russian tortoise. Just make sure he has a nice, moist substrate he can burrow into for a humid microclimate, and he'll do fine. If you really think some sort of oil for his carapace is needed, you could try Tetra brand Vitashell. I tried it years ago on my redfoot a couple times, and it did make her shell nice and shiny. However, it shouldn't be necessary, and some people think it might actually do more harm than good by clogging pores in the keratin. Really, providing moisture is more important than an emollient, but it is an option if you think it's necessary.

 

[Jenncure]

Thanks. We use organic topsoil and keep it moist enough for him to dig (he loves to dig!). Maybe I'm just being paranoid, but his shell just doesn't seem as smooth and glossy as some of the pics I see on here. Is it possible to soak him too frequently? He is otherwise very active and healthy, and has a huge appetite.

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

Thanks. We use organic topsoil and keep it moist enough for him to dig (he loves to dig!). Maybe I'm just being paranoid, but his shell just doesn't seem as smooth and glossy as some of the pics I see on here. Is it possible to soak him too frequently? He is otherwise very active and healthy, and has a huge appetite.

Sounds like he's doing well. His carapace looks fine. Might be a bit rough, but that's typical for wild-caught tortoises, particularly in temperate (non-tropical) species, since their growth slows down every winter, and then speeds back up again every summer. Russians are the farthest-north tortoises on Earth, so they have particularly well-defined rings in nature because their growth stops during the cold winters, and they are active for only about 3 months a year. So your tortoise's carapace seems normal.

I soak my guys once a week for 5-15 minutes. I wouldn't soak a healthy tortoise more than twice a week for that amount of time. If the temperature is nice and warm, they may enjoy the bath for a while, although it can be stressful to them, so that's why I'd do it only often enough to help them stay hydrated.

EDIT: The scutes in the back look a bit skewed, but that could have more to do with diet than moisture. Even wild Russian tortoises can develop metabolic problems if they don't get to eat or bask enough. My female's back scutes kind of look like that, and I think she had a mild case of MBD in the wild.

Can we see a profile shot of your guy? I wonder if he might be growing upward a bit too fast. It's normal to have a yellowish ring of new growth between the carapace and the margin, but sometimes it can get a bit wide if they eat a lot. Might be new growth that hasn't had enough sunlight to darken, or it could be due to low humidity / inadequate moisture, but it can also be due to rapid growth from a calorie-rich / nutrient-poor diet. Does your guy get a nice, varied diet with vitamin and mineral supplementation? Again, he looks quite good, but I wonder if there might be a couple things to look at.

 

[lynnedit]

I agree with Geo, his shell looks fine and your care also sounds good. Make sure he doesn't get too much to eat. A pile of greens/weeds about the size of his shell daily if he gets a lot of exercise and is active, otherwise every other day.
He has probably has dry substrate and perhaps inadequate nutrition as Geo suggests, in the past, but those days appear to be over now!
You can go back to soaking 2-3x per week.
Don't apply anything to his shell- there isn't any advantage to the tortoise's health; leaving it natural is the best.
Hopefully he can get some sun exposure (even an hour per day). Nothing seems to help with normal shell growth more than the sun.

 

[Jenncure]

Thanks everyone. I get him outside for a bit as much as possible. I am probably guilty of over-feeding, he is just always hungry and wanting food. And I am aware of the off-center back scute. He had been in a too-small glass tank for a while, so we attribute it to that. Here is more of a side view of Henry enjoying some sun on the porch.

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

Thanks everyone. I get him outside for a bit as much as possible. I am probably guilty of over-feeding, he is just always hungry and wanting food. And I am aware of the off-center back scute. He had been in a too-small glass tank for a while, so we attribute it to that. Here is more of a side view of Henry enjoying some sun on the porch.

Well, he does seem quite healthy. As for the shell shape, I'd probably chalk that up to previous poor husbandry leading to mild MBD. Yes, I'd believe that a small glass tank (!) could have lead to that asymmetry. Even his overall carapace shape could be due to that, so I wouldn't necessarily worry too much about overfeeding him (more on that below). You can see a clear demarcation between his growth in nature and in captivity, with the small, dark areas being from the wild, and the big, yellow band being more recent. Again, that can darken with more time outside.

As for diet, it's not necessarily how much they eat, but rather what they eat. As long as a tortoise is not too fat to withdraw into its shell, the amount of food it eats is probably okay. It's probably even better to be a little bit chubby, especially for a temperate tortoise like the Russian, which needs fat stores to hibernate (brumate), or at least go without food every now and then during the winter.

Low humidity can lead to pyramiding, but poor nutrition can lead to MBD, which can also warp the shell. Without enough vitamin D3 from food and/or UVB (especially sunlight), the skeleton does not develop correctly. Ditto if they don't eat enough calcium. Most tortoise species, including Russians, are also adapted to a diet with lots of fiber, and only a little bit of protein. So, if they're not eating a lot, but the stuff they do get is low in vitamins, minerals, and fiber, but high in protein, that can lead to shell deformity. Add to that overeating, and of course the problem gets worse.

Fortunately, you know what to do, so you can get him back on track.

 

[Jenncure]

Thanks Geo, you've been very helpful!

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

Thanks Geo, you've been very helpful!

You bet. Actually, looking at the tail of your tortoise, I can see that it's a female. That helps account for the shape of her shell. My female Russian is a bit like that, and I've seen others like that, too. Unlike most other tortoises, in Testudo species, the females grow to be heavier than the males. This means they also grow faster and go through growth spurts, and at those times, they need especially good nutrition. We usually think of MBD as occurring in captive animals, but I think female Russians can get some MBD in the wild, too. Male and female Russians naturally have slightly different shapes to their shells, but it seems like mild MBD accentuates that difference in females, raising the scute over the tail and increasing the slope over the hips.

I also used to have a wild-caught, female three-toed box turtle whose shell was a bit asymmetrical. She was in good health, but it was pretty obvious that somewhere in the wilds of Missouri, she was attacked by some kind of carnivore. I don't know if it was a raccoon, fox, coyote, or dog, but she had a few bite marks on the margin of her shells, as well as some scarring near the back of the carapace. That apparently affected the growth of the shell, because that's where it wasn't quite symmetrical. Maybe living in a small tank caused a similar trauma to your tortoise's shell, too.

Anyway, whether it's sex, diet, injury, or a combination of these, your tortoise is looking good overall, and will do fine. I think you just need to start calling her Henrietta.

 

[Jenncure]

It's a girl! Haha, thanks Geo. We suspected it because of the tail, but I still say "he" out of habit half the time.