Emo Tortoise?

[Ambrojha]

Our tortoise hasn’t really been himself lately. He normally is out and about in his habitat, eating a lot, and soaking under his heat lamp. These days he sleeps all the time, doesn’t leave his hide, doesn’t go under his heat lamp at all, and isn’t really eating. We’re not sure what’s up with him and don’t know what to do.

 

[Tom]

Where did you get him and how long have you had him? Most babies are not started correctly at the breeders, and yours is already pyramiding which is a sign of a dry start.

Unless that entire room is always 80+ degrees at floor level, and 80% humidity, you are housing him wrong. You can't maintain the correct conditions in an open topped enclosure on the floor. Its too cold down there for him. I see one lighting hood clamped to the side. What is in the hood?

Unless you correct these issues, your baby is not likely to survive. Here is the correct care info:

Beginner Mistakes

To comment on Tom's article, go here: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-split-Beginner-Mistakes#axzz1tG8s05M5 Over the years many of us, myself included, have made many of these mistakes, and we have certainly seen them made many times by others. With springtime upon us and many new...

tortoiseforum.org

How To Raise A Healthy Sulcata Or Leopard, Version 2.0

It's been three years since the original care sheet, http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-63788.html , and I think its time for a review and an update. A lot of new info has come to light over the last three years and new insight has been gained through numerous experiences. What follows is my...

tortoiseforum.org

For Those Who Have a Young Sulcata...

Over and over I type up and answer diet questions and try to get people feeding the right stuff, but I find that the "norm" is grocery store food. Grocery store food is expensive, a hassle to obtain, and very low on the list of what is best for sulcatas. These tortoises are GRASS eaters. From...

tortoiseforum.org

Feel free to ask questions. I'm happy to explain further.

 

[Ambrojha]

Where did you get him and how long have you had him? Most babies are not started correctly at the breeders, and yours is already pyramiding which is a sign of a dry start.

Unless that entire room is always 80+ degrees at floor level, and 80% humidity, you are housing him wrong. You can't maintain the correct conditions in an open topped enclosure on the floor. Its too cold down there for him. I see one lighting hood clamped to the side. What is in the hood?

Unless you correct these issues, your baby is not likely to survive. Here is the correct care info:

Beginner Mistakes

To comment on Tom's article, go here: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-split-Beginner-Mistakes#axzz1tG8s05M5 Over the years many of us, myself included, have made many of these mistakes, and we have certainly seen them made many times by others. With springtime upon us and many new...

tortoiseforum.org

How To Raise A Healthy Sulcata Or Leopard, Version 2.0

It's been three years since the original care sheet, http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-63788.html , and I think its time for a review and an update. A lot of new info has come to light over the last three years and new insight has been gained through numerous experiences. What follows is my...

tortoiseforum.org

For Those Who Have a Young Sulcata...

Over and over I type up and answer diet questions and try to get people feeding the right stuff, but I find that the "norm" is grocery store food. Grocery store food is expensive, a hassle to obtain, and very low on the list of what is best for sulcatas. These tortoises are GRASS eaters. From...

tortoiseforum.org

Feel free to ask questions. I'm happy to explain further.

Thanks for your reply. We have had him since November ... I estimate he’s like 9 months old? We got him from Painted Reptile in tarzana, ca. It is a ceramic bulb.

 

[Tom]

Thanks for your reply. We have had him since November ... I estimate he’s like 9 months old? We got him from Painted Reptile in tarzana, ca. It is a ceramic bulb.

I'm up in Santa Clarita and I've never heard of them. The baby wasn't started correctly, and it looks like you got bad care advice too. Sadly, this is the norm, so don't feel bad. All the correct info is in those links. I hope its not too late. First and foremost this baby needs to be warmed up. No part of the enclosure should dip below 80 day or night. The CHE is fine for maintaining ambient, but it can't work in an open tortoise table on the floor, and you still need a basking area and UV.

These babies hatch at the start of the monsoon season over in Africa. Its hot, humid, wet, and there are puddles and marshes every where. These are the conditions you need to simulate, and you can't do it in and open topped table.

 

[Ambrojha]

I'm up in Santa Clarita and I've never heard of them. The baby wasn't started correctly, and it looks like you got bad care advice too. Sadly, this is the norm, so don't feel bad. All the correct info is in those links. I hope its not too late. First and foremost this baby needs to be warmed up. No part of the enclosure should dip below 80 day or night. The CHE is fine for maintaining ambient, but it can't work in an open tortoise table on the floor, and you still need a basking area and UV.

These babies hatch at the start of the monsoon season over in Africa. Its hot, humid, wet, and there are puddles and marshes every where. These are the conditions you need to simulate, and you can't do it in and open topped table.

Thanks for the reply again. Harold Archibald isn’t like directly on the floor... plastic bagging was like stapled to the wooden from. Then the substrate added. We put water on substrate daily so it’s softer and soak him... but he isn’t like directly on the floor. We keep the house warm mostly, like 70 degrees and figure it’s warmer down there. We switched to CHE cuz heard the other lights are harmful for reptile eyes. Some people let their tortoises walk freely in their home. So we figured a confined environment would be good. We opted not to let him roam in back yard because he could fall in our pool or a coyote or raccoon or bird could get him.
I did take a chance to look at the articles you suggested previously though. Lol we are the grocery store people. He used to really like butter lettuce but... he’s just not eating anymore and kinda swatted at my wife when she visited him earlier. Like she was annoying and wanted to go back to sleep or something.
At some point, he would be too big for a table. I’d like to find some way to make the enclosure that we made for him work. With current circumstances, our options are kinda limited regarding where we can go.

 

[Tom]

Thanks for the reply again. Harold Archibald isn’t like directly on the floor... plastic bagging was like stapled to the wooden from. Then the substrate added. We put water on substrate daily so it’s softer and soak him... but he isn’t like directly on the floor. We keep the house warm mostly, like 70 degrees and figure it’s warmer down there. We switched to CHE cuz heard the other lights are harmful for reptile eyes. Some people let their tortoises walk freely in their home. So we figured a confined environment would be good. We opted not to let him roam in back yard because he could fall in our pool or a coyote or raccoon or bird could get him.
I did take a chance to look at the articles you suggested previously though. Lol we are the grocery store people. He used to really like butter lettuce but... he’s just not eating anymore and kinda swatted at my wife when she visited him earlier. Like she was annoying and wanted to go back to sleep or something.
At some point, he would be too big for a table. I’d like to find some way to make the enclosure that we made for him work. With current circumstances, our options are kinda limited regarding where we can go.

If its 70 in the room, its colder down lower in the room. What would make you think its warmer down there? Heat rises.

When he's too big for an indoor enclosure, he can live outside full time with a heated night box. He's not going to make it if you don't change the way you are housing him. These are a tropical species. They need it warm at night and hot during the day.

The cfl type UV bulbs can sometimes burn their eyes. Incandescent flood bulbs for basking and florescent HO tubes for UV don't harm their eyes.

You asked for help. I've told you what is wrong. Make some changes ASAP or you won't have to worry about it for long.

 

[Toddrickfl1]

If you've had that tortoise since November and it's still that size something is terribly wrong unfortunately. Also has the tortoise actually been painted?

 

[Yvonne G]

What makes you think 70F is warm enough for a tortoise? Take off your clothes then lay down on the floor beside that enclosure, you can even put down a blanket to simulate the substrate and plastic sheeting. Your little tortoise has a very small body mass, and he's a cold blooded animal. That means he doesn't make his own heat, he has to get it from that CHE you've provided for him. Think about it - YOUR body temperature is 98.6F degrees. That's almost 100F degrees. Your ambient room temperature of 70F degrees isn't anywhere near warm enough to keep that baby alive. Besides that, you've put a layer of paint on his shell that helps to keep the heat from absorbing into his body. I hate to be all doom and gloom, but your baby is going to die if you don't make some changes ASAP:

1. Put the enclosure on a table - up off the floor
2. Figure out a way to have a bar, tube or piece of wood across the top of the enclosure so you can hang the lights/heat from it
3. Cover the enclosure to keep the heat provided by the light inside the enclosure and not dissipating out into the room
4. Buy a point-and-shoot temperature gun so you can test what the temperature is all over the floor of the whole enclosure
5. Growing tortoises need calcium and UVB in order to grow and be healthy. So you'll need to get a GOOD UVB light for him.

Here's an example of an easy way to cover and hang lights:



Then once you've made your light stand, you can just drape plastic sheeting over the whole thing to keep the warm air inside. Or better still, buy a closed enclosure:

 

[Tom]

I hate to be all doom and gloom, but your baby is going to die if you don't make some changes ASAP:

HEY! That's MY job!!!

Excellent post.

 

[Ambrojha]

If its 70 in the room, its colder down lower in the room. What would make you think its warmer down there? Heat rises.

When he's too big for an indoor enclosure, he can live outside full time with a heated night box. He's not going to make it if you don't change the way you are housing him. These are a tropical species. They need it warm at night and hot during the day.

The cfl type UV bulbs can sometimes burn their eyes. Incandescent flood bulbs for basking and florescent HO tubes for UV don't harm their eyes.

You asked for help. I've told you what is wrong. Make some changes ASAP or you won't have to worry about it for long.

Look I’m not an idiot Tom so don’t talk to me like that. That first paragraph was rude. I know heat rises. Like I was saying, he has a heat source there so that adds to the temperature. And like I said, people let their tortoises walk freely so there’s that. You don’t have to be rude. You didn’t have to reply but I’m happy you did with some helpful info. I’m new to this and was looking for advice like anyone else here on this page.

 

[LasTortugasNinja]

Look I’m not an idiot Tom so don’t talk to me like that. That first paragraph was rude. I know heat rises. Like I was saying, he has a heat source there so that adds to the temperature. And like I said, people let their tortoises walk freely so there’s that. You don’t have to be rude. You didn’t have to reply but I’m happy you did with some helpful info. I’m new to this and was looking for advice like anyone else here on this page.

Generally, people don't give hatchlings free run. I gotta agree with the comments of the others. It's very hard to maintain a temperature with only one heat source in an area that big. Also, humidity in an open enclosure is REALLY tough. Unless your room has a humidifier, that baby isn't getting the humidity it needs. Routine soakings help, but little reptile lungs need to breathe in moisture as well as drink it. Your setup works, and I like the look of it. I would recommend until the little guy goes on a growth spurt, reduce it's living area to a large plastic tote. with the heat lamp and UVB. A deeper waterbowl with rocks can increase humidity. You can still use the bigger home as an exercise area, but honestly, this little guy needs to use every calorie to reverse course and heal.

I'm not a tortoise expert, as I've only had mine a month or so, but the people here care for tortoises. They know their thing. I've had years of snake and lizard raising, and with all reptiles, there are common constants with raising babies. We want the world for them, but sometimes they need the comfort of them doing minimal work to have their needs met. It's similar to crate-training a puppy.

Hope this helps.

 

[Maggie3fan]

Look I’m not an idiot Tom so don’t talk to me like that. That first paragraph was rude. I know heat rises. Like I was saying, he has a heat source there so that adds to the temperature. And like I said, people let their tortoises walk freely so there’s that. You don’t have to be rude. You didn’t have to reply but I’m happy you did with some helpful info. I’m new to this and was looking for advice like anyone else here on this page.

No disrespect intended...but when those of us with experience see a baby in that bad condition it stuns us and all of us will try to impress on you that your baby is most probably going to die unless you change what's wrong yesterday...don't think that because 'people let their tortoises walk freely' does not make it right...and we here have seen so many damaged or dead tortoises...because they do not belong on the floor...we are simply trying to help and don't believe there is time for sugar-coating...

 

[TechnoCheese]

Did you paint your tortoise’s shell? If so, please do not do this in the future, and try to remove all of the paint you can. Many paints contain materials that are toxic when ingested, and the shell can and will absorb these, especially when placed on the growth lines between scutes.

+1 for getting this tortoise warm and humid. It is crucial for their survival, and if you need to, you might try using a 50 gallon or larger sterilite tub, cutting holes in the lid slightly smaller than the lighting, surrounding it with tin foil, and placing the heating on top. This will give you a closed chamber enclosure, and allow you to properly contain the heat and humidity.

 

[Tom]

Look I’m not an idiot Tom so don’t talk to me like that. That first paragraph was rude. I know heat rises. Like I was saying, he has a heat source there so that adds to the temperature. And like I said, people let their tortoises walk freely so there’s that. You don’t have to be rude. You didn’t have to reply but I’m happy you did with some helpful info. I’m new to this and was looking for advice like anyone else here on this page.

No. YOU look. You are killing that baby tortoise with ignorance. You came here asking for help. I helped you. If you already know its colder down on the floor, then why is your baby tropical reptile in an open topped enclosure down there on the floor with one little inadequate heat source??? None of MY babies are sleeping al the time, failing to bask, or not eating...

Yes people let their tortoises walk freely, and those tortoises usually get sick, injured, lost, or dead. We see it here all the time, and we try to HELP people understand why its dangerous and why they shouldn't be doing it.

My responses to your initial request were not rude. They were direct and to the point. You are reading rudeness into it. This current response is a little rude, but not entirely undeserved. I'm not here to make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside. I'm here to help your tortoise live a long healthy happy life, and to help you understand what you are doing wrong, and how to do it right. I'm not a diplomat. I'm someone who has been keeping and breeding sulcatas for three decades and had to learn the hard way what works and what doesn't because there was no "rude" guy on a tortoise forum to tell me what I was doing wrong. The tortoises paid the price for my ignorance back in those days. Your tortoise doesn't have to.

 

[Ambrojha]

If you've had that tortoise since November and it's still that size something is terribly wrong unfortunately. Also has the tortoise actually been painted?

Ya I got animal safe doggie nail polish and polished him after a coconut oil rub/massage

 

[Ambrojha]

He’s bigger than he was when we got him though. I didn’t think anything was wrong since they live 150 years possibly so we thought they grow slow and over long period of time

 

[Ambrojha]

Generally, people don't give hatchlings free run. I gotta agree with the comments of the others. It's very hard to maintain a temperature with only one heat source in an area that big. Also, humidity in an open enclosure is REALLY tough. Unless your room has a humidifier, that baby isn't getting the humidity it needs. Routine soakings help, but little reptile lungs need to breathe in moisture as well as drink it. Your setup works, and I like the look of it. I would recommend until the little guy goes on a growth spurt, reduce it's living area to a large plastic tote. with the heat lamp and UVB. A deeper waterbowl with rocks can increase humidity. You can still use the bigger home as an exercise area, but honestly, this little guy needs to use every calorie to reverse course and heal.

I'm not a tortoise expert, as I've only had mine a month or so, but the people here care for tortoises. They know their thing. I've had years of snake and lizard raising, and with all reptiles, there are common constants with raising babies. We want the world for them, but sometimes they need the comfort of them doing minimal work to have their needs met. It's similar to crate-training a puppy.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for your comment I had a ball python but gave her to a friend and even those have particulars. Some people are very rude here, maybe due to “stay at home” restrictions or maybe just jerks idk but... we mostly here because we seek advice from others that may know more than we do... so it sucks when people speak harshly to me when I’m looking for advice. Keeping in mind I can’t use a vet because reliable reptile vets are minimal and most of us are restricted with options during Covid-19... so I appreciate your comments.

 

[Ambrojha]

No. YOU look. You are killing that baby tortoise with ignorance. You came here asking for help. I helped you. If you already know its colder down on the floor, then why is your baby tropical reptile in an open topped enclosure down there on the floor with one little inadequate heat source??? None of MY babies are sleeping al the time, failing to bask, or not eating...

Yes people let their tortoises walk freely, and those tortoises usually get sick, injured, lost, or dead. We see it here all the time, and we try to HELP people understand why its dangerous and why they shouldn't be doing it.

My responses to your initial request were not rude. They were direct and to the point. You are reading rudeness into it. This current response is a little rude, but not entirely undeserved. I'm not here to make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside. I'm here to help your tortoise live a long healthy happy life, and to help you understand what you are doing wrong, and how to do it right. I'm not a diplomat. I'm someone who has been keeping and breeding sulcatas for three decades and had to learn the hard way what works and what doesn't because there was no "rude" guy on a tortoise forum to tell me what I was doing wrong. The tortoises paid the price for my ignorance back in those days. Your tortoise doesn't have to.

I’m not ignorant. I came for advice since I can’t take to a vet right now. Ignorant would be if I acted like I know everything and DIDNT ask for help. You’ve called names. I haven’t. I thanked you. You aren’t helping by dragging me down. Just go away and grace others with what you call help. I didn’t even read your last reply because you’re a jerk. Other comments were nice. I never said or pretended to know everything but will definitely report your rude ***.

 

[jeneliza]

Ya I got animal safe doggie nail polish and polished him after a coconut oil rub/massage

I hate to be the one to say this, but that's not safe either, yes it's cute and all, but nails of a dog are very different, painting the shell with any thing even nontoxic dog nail polish will block the shell from the sunlight or uvb, being taken in by the shell, this is very important for there health without this they will ,not grow correctly, and in time leads to a slow painful death, I am not trying to me nasty or rude only save you and your baby from alot of heartache later on, plus dogs nails don't take in the paint the same way a tortoises shell does, the make up is very different, just like dog shampoo is not safe for cats, most of the time, unless made for both, the paint for dog nails isn't safe for the tortoises, even though it may seem like one product made for animals would be the same for all it isn't

 

[nicoleann2214]

No disrespect intended...but when those of us with experience see a baby in that bad condition it stuns us and all of us will try to impress on you that your baby is most probably going to die unless you change what's wrong yesterday...don't think that because 'people let their tortoises walk freely' does not make it right...and we here have seen so many damaged or dead tortoises...because they do not belong on the floor...we are simply trying to help and don't believe there is time for sugar-coating...

I totally agree, when I joined this forum people gave me information and I’m glad they didn’t sugar coat it. If it weren’t for the people on here my baby would be so much worse off, I came on this forum with all of the wrong information.. and now my tortoise is so much more happier in its current state and her nostrils have cleared up so well. I couldn’t be happier and feel like a weight has been lifted off of my shoulders that I can provide a good hot humid home for my baby tortoise considering her upbringing was dry.