Enclosure Pics and Substrate Question

[Michael Wolfe]

Here are some pics of the enclosure I built a couple of years ago for our Leopard. It is about as big as a single bed. All wood, painted and caulked in the corners.
2/3 filled with a sand and potting soil mix. 1/3 filled with rabbit pellets. Plants added in pots and in flats.
And finally, the star of the show...

And now my question... it seems that this combination of soil and sand is creating a lot of dust... I didn't notice it so much at first, but now it is really bad. What substrate could I use that owuld not be so dusty?

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Michael:

to the forum!!

I prefer to use cypress mulch. I notice that your leopard is pyramiding pretty badly. A moister substrate (hence no dust) would stop that.

There are several you can use that can be moistened, but I really like either the fine grade orchid bark or cypress mulch.

(great habitat, by the way!)

 

[Michael Wolfe]

Thanks Yvonne,

I am new to the forum, but have had the leopard for his whole life (14 years). Most of my info is that old as well. I was told to keep him very dry (desert tortoise?) to avoide respiratory problems. I was also told to avoid pine and cedar chips, so have never used any wood product. So now I see a lot of talk here about humidity... seems now we are recommending higher humidity?

Most of that pyramiding occurred during a couple of fast growth years (age 1-3) where we fed him too much and the wrong things. But he is very healthy in general.

 

[Stephanie Logan]

Welcome, Michael. Your habitat is to die for!

Does the sun shine through stongly enough to keep the temperatures up, or do you have a heat source that I am missing?

How cool to have had the same tortoise for 14 years; you must be good buddies by now--haha!

I use cypress mulch mixed with coconut coir and then pour water over it a couple times a week, and it is never dusty even here in DRY Colorado.

 

[Michael Wolfe]

Thanks Stephanie,

Yes the sun shines in (southern exposure window) but you are missing the 100 watt bulb clamp on lanmp that we put in the right corner right after the picture was taken... never noticed that it was missing in the photo...

Yes, he is quite friendly... pretty much runs over to greet anyone who might rub his head/neck... or who might be bringing food!

I am nervous about adding humidity, since I was told differently all those years ago, but it seems that y'all are pretty consistently doing this now... even for desert animals like leopards?

 

[terracolson]

So cute!!!

I have been using orchard grass, yes its dry... but i keep a grass flat in side and the humidity is from 50 to 60 %....

I tried eco earth, but i found the fibers in there feces and i dont like that.....

I also have hatchlings

 

[Stephanie Logan]

Boy howdy, you have some reading to do!

Just browse through the "Leopard Lounge" section, the "Enclosure" section, and the "Sulcata" section for the new research and personal experience with humidity. Humidity is pretty much universally accepted as one the of the critical requirements for healthy shell growth in tortoises. Desert species dig burrows in search of moister habitats, and they urinate and defecate within their burrows to further increase their own humidity levels.

You can find some care sheets in the section I mentioned above...I am not a tortoise expert at all, but after reading hundreds of posts on this forum for the last six months, one overriding element of proper tortoise husbandry I have learned is the necessity of high levels of humidity.

 

[Tom]

Hello Michael and welcome to the forum. I'm one of the people who used to tell people like you to keep desert species of tortoises like that. We were wrong. Plain and simple. Sorry. I also raised mine that way and in spite of all my efforts, they still pyramided. I got mine in '98 as hatchlings, two years after you got yours.

One the the questions that is still unanswered is whether or not humidity makes much of a difference once they reach a certain size and are already pyramided. I've been told by more than one breeder that if you can get them 4-6" smooth, they will continue to grow that way, even if things get dryer. I'm currently trying to prove, or disprove, the reverse with my two year old sulcata. She was already pretty badly pyramided when I got her at three months old. I put her in a pen with a humid hide box and dry substrate. She was in the box a lot and slept in there every night, but it did nothing to slow down the pyramiding. She lived that way for six months with no change to the pyramiding. Then I switched her to a moist substrate AND a humid hide box for another 12 months. No change. Six months ago, I decided to go all out. I made the substrate swampy, covered the top of the pen, waterlogged the humid hide box, misted the walls and substrate several times a day, gave her daily soaks and started running an ultrasonic humidifier in the reptile room several hours a day. After six months of this, the new growth does seem a little smoother, but its still too early to tell.

The point of all that is: A little dampness on your substrate will not harm your leopard in any way and it will keep any dust down. I would guess, however that the dustiness is coming from the rabbit pellets. In the pic it actually looks like those compressed, recycled newspaper pellets. I found both of these to be extremely dusty in the past.

Cypress mulch, orchid bark, plain soil, coco coir or any combination of those will keep the dust to a minimum as long as you keep it moist.

Some of the other members here referred me to these sites recently and I really found them useful. They are full of up to date info for Leopards and Sulcatas. http://africantortoise.com/ http://ivorytortoise.com/

Great enclosure by the way.

One thing that did turn out to be right, from back in the day, is that sunshine is really really good for them. Does yours get out in the sun?

Hope to see you around here. There are some really great and helpful people here that will help you fine tune your tortoise care in ways you never thought of. I have found it very inspiring.

 

[Yvonne G]

I think that Richard Fife in Arizona was one of the first people to start thinking about adding humidity to a baby desert-type tortoise's habitat during their growing years. Here's his article:

http://www.ivorytortoise.com/information/documents/pyramiding_in_tortoises.html

 

[Tom]

His book "Leopard Tortoises" from 2007 is the first time I ever heard it, and it made perfect sense to me when I read it. Great book, by the way, I highly recommend it.

 

[Michael Wolfe]

Thanks for the warm welcome. And thanks for being so up front about the change in husbandry information.

And thanks for the information and the link... that book looks to be a good deal... you would think after 14 years I would know stuff... but there is always more to learn.

 

[Michael Wolfe]

UPDATE: Based on advice here and the fact that we haven't done it in a while, I updated the enclosure. Got rid of all the pellets, cleaned all of the old sand an soil (cat pooper scooper), added top soild to the sand, and make 40% or so of the enclosure cypress mulch. Also added some new plants.

The big guy seems to like it...

He really likes flowers!

Soaked him good today, washed his shell, and traced his outline and weighed him... 8.75 x 6.625 and 4lb 8oz at age 14

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Great job on the enclosure! What does he get for UVB? Now we've convinced you to update your husbandry I don't see or hear any conversation about UVB. The UVB rays don't go thru glass so unless he is outside for part of the day he needs something for UVB. I am not overly concerned with this for my own animals because of the variety they get in their diet. So how about Bing, what about UVB?
Welcome to the forum BTW.

 

[Michael Wolfe]

Well, to be honest, he does not get much

He goes outside some but not regularly, and he has just a regular light for heat and basking... and of course for basking a lot of light does com in the window...

So can I buy a special light bulb for his light?

 

[Stephanie Logan]

You can buy a Trex Mercury Vapor Bulb for about $50 from carolinapetsupply. I think it provides UVB. Taco's is 100 watts and has been going for about 6 months now with no problems.

I just love the way your tortoise is right next to the window. He must feel like he's outside all the time, even if he isn't!

So, I'm still waiting here...you have had him 14 years, surely this hunky young tort has a name?

 

[gyang333]

You can buy a Trex Mercury Vapor Bulb for about $50 from carolinapetsupply. I think it provides UVB. Taco's is 100 watts and has been going for about 6 months now with no problems.

I just love the way your tortoise is right next to the window. He must feel like he's outside all the time, even if he isn't!

So, I'm still waiting here...you have had him 14 years, surely this hunky young tort has a name?

his hide does have BING written on it, maybe that's the tort's name?

 

[Stephanie Logan]

Well, duh. You are right--it's on his hide and on the photo link captions as well.

I was too busy admiring the window, the plants and the stylish decor!

 

[Michael Wolfe]

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So, I'm still waiting here...you have had him 14 years, surely this hunky young tort has a name?

Sure, take a look at the second picture in my update post... it is right there on his house... the dude's name is BING... well originally my five year old son named him Birmingham, since that is where we got him... but that was too long to say... so we shortened it to Bing... occasionally refered to as Bingo... here is a picture of both of them... after all these years, they are still big buddies... the tall one was home from college for the weekend, and did much of the manual labor for the enclosure update!

 

[Maggie Cummings]

OK...if I have this right the handsome young man in the picture holding the Leopard up to his face is your son, and the Leopard is Bing and is 14 years old in that picture??? If I am correct then that tortoise is very small for a 14 year old Leopard. At 14 he should probably have most of his adult growth and a person shouldn't be able to hold him up like that.
So Michael, I am thinking Bing is slightly stunted and most probably from lack of UVB rays. That's just a guess, I am no expert. But I am fairly sure a 14 year old Leopard should be too big to hold that way.
But I also guess that even if he is stunted he's still fairly healthy...So, no harm no foul...

 

[Michael Wolfe]

Well that particular pic is a year and a half old, but I measured bing the other day and he seems to be only a 1/4 inch bigger now than he was back then. I was wondering the same thing actually... never thought much about his size until recently (I mean he is a lot bigger now than 14 years ago). You might be correct about the UVB. He has been kept indoors his whole life, in a vairety of enclisures starting with the predictable (but incorrect) 10 gallon aquarium, and then graduating up through a number of enclosures to what you see here. I used the length to weight calculation given on another thread and he is right on that, so he is not too thin for his size... And I know that leopards should live as long as a person... my son was not his full size at 14... should my tortoise be full size at 14?