Food in moderation

[Pebbles2307]

Hi I am a new owner to a 1 year old Russian tortoise called pebbles,

I have been researching to make sure I am feeding her a varied diet however whilst the seeds I've planted are still growing, most of the weeds and plants I have access to now say to feed in moderation. But what do you guys count as moderation?

Like if they say they have goitrogens in does it mean once a day, or once a week?

sorry if it's been answered before and thanks for any help!

 

[JoesMum]

By moderation we mean it shouldn’t be fed every day. In the wild, plants are seasonal. Tortoises will gorge on what’s growing at that time and then eat something else as it comes into season.

For those of us keeping tortoises it means that you feed what’s fresh and when you have finished it then feed something different.

Feeding a variety of greens means feeding a variety over time, not a variety at every feed or even across a week.

Have you you read the TFO care guides and compared them with your setup?

They're written by species experts working hard to correct the outdated information widely available on the internet and from pet stores and, sadly, from some breeders and vets too.

Beginner Mistakes
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

Baby Russian Tortoise Care
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...or-other-herbivorous-tortoise-species.107734/

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Take what you read from the Tortoise Table and discard most of it. Most is not based on actual tortoise knowledge, but information from other species, mostly humans, applied to tortoises. It is so conservative as to be harmfully placing off the table many plants that can be a good part of a varied diet.

1) there is no evidence that goitrogens effect tortoises. That's a human issue transferred onto tortoises.

To your specific question. They have a green light, feed as much as the tortoise will eat, and two cautions, one 'moderate' which would seem to be about 25% per meal, and 'sparingly' which I take to be about 5-10% per meal. Then the do not feed category, which includes many many plants that can be fed.

I 'get it', you don't want to take 'any chances', and 'why take the risk?' . Stay inside, lock your doors, and don't answer the phone. Silly, right?

Russians are well know for being broadleaf, close to the ground, plant eaters. But you can use many sources for them. Escarole is domestic chicory, mulberry leaves, grape leaves, etc are all good foods.

 

[Pebbles2307]

By moderation we mean it shouldn’t be fed every day. In the wild, plants are seasonal. Tortoises will gorge on what’s growing at that time and then eat something else as it comes into season.

For those of us keeping tortoises it means that you feed what’s fresh and when you have finished it then feed something different.

Feeding a variety of greens means feeding a variety over time, not a variety at every feed or even across a week.

Have you you read the TFO care guides and compared them with your setup?

They're written by species experts working hard to correct the outdated information widely available on the internet and from pet stores and, sadly, from some breeders and vets too.

Beginner Mistakes
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

Baby Russian Tortoise Care
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...or-other-herbivorous-tortoise-species.107734/

Thank you for your help, that's good I didn't realise you didn't have to offer a variety every meal!

I have read those care sheets and I've been following all the instructions, I'm just nervous of feeding her too much of the wrong thing before my own plants and weeds grow that are better for her

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

I wholly disagree. Variety per meal, maybe with an emphasis, but variety per daily feed choices.

Feeding a variety of greens means feeding a variety over time, not a variety at every feed or even across a week.

 

[Pebbles2307]

Take what you read from the Tortoise Table and discard most of it. Most is not based on actual tortoise knowledge, but information from other species, mostly humans, applied to tortoises. It is so conservative as to be harmfully placing off the table many plants that can be a good part of a varied diet.

1) there is no evidence that goitrogens effect tortoises. That's a human issue transferred onto tortoises.

To your specific question. They have a green light, feed as much as the tortoise will eat, and two cautions, one 'moderate' which would seem to be about 25% per meal, and 'sparingly' which I take to be about 5-10% per meal. Then the do not feed category, which includes many many plants that can be fed.

I 'get it', you don't want to take 'any chances', and 'why take the risk?' . Stay inside, lock your doors, and don't answer the phone. Silly, right?

Russians are well know for being broadleaf, close to the ground, plant eaters. But you can use many sources for them. Escarole is domestic chicory, mulberry leaves, grape leaves, etc are all good foods.

Thank you for your help! I don't want to restrict her diet due to fear so it's good to know how much of all the different weeds and plants I can give her

 

[RosemaryDW]

Welcome!

It’s hard to figure out the right balance, particularly when we are new owners and particularly when there is so much conflicting information out there.

I often to refer to part of an article on their diet in the wild that we link to in our very own section on Russian diet in the wild: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/article-steppe-tortoise-diet-in-the-wild.30230/. If you don’t mind spending some time looking up the plants mentioned, you’ll notice that a huge bunch of what they eat in the wild are in the buttercup and poppy families, both of which are cautioned against in some online resources as “never feed.” As Will mentioned, we just don’t have that many close studies of how foods truly impact tortoises.

I personally think more tortoises are harmed through primarily feeding a single food or two than possible exposure to something we think *might* be bad. I don’t worry about oxalates or goitrogens when I am feeding a varied diet but everyone’s risk tolerance is different. Give as much variety as you can but (also!) don’t beat yourself up for not offering ten different items every day of the week when you are a new parent. I feed my Russian everything under the sun now but I sure didn’t when I first found her; I also spent an awful lot of time trying to grow my own weeds before deciding that wasn’t the best route for me.

You’re unlikely to do any immediate, drastic harm to Pebbles so long as you aren’t feeding a pile of sugary foods every day; you’ll figure out the right balance in time. You’re doing your research and asking questions, that’s always the best first sign.

 

[Pebbles2307]

Welcome!

It’s hard to figure out the right balance, particularly when we are new owners and particularly when there is so much conflicting information out there.

I often to refer to part of an article on their diet in the wild that we link to in our very own section on Russian diet in the wild: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/article-steppe-tortoise-diet-in-the-wild.30230/. If you don’t mind spending some time looking up the plants mentioned, you’ll notice that a huge bunch of what they eat in the wild are in the buttercup and poppy families, both of which are cautioned against in some online resources as “never feed.” As Will mentioned, we just don’t have that many close studies of how foods truly impact tortoises.

I personally think more tortoises are harmed through primarily feeding a single food or two than possible exposure to something we think *might* be bad. I don’t worry about oxalates or goitrogens when I am feeding a varied diet but everyone’s risk tolerance is different. Give as much variety as you can but (also!) don’t beat yourself up for not offering ten different items every day of the week when you are a new parent. I feed my Russian everything under the sun now but I sure didn’t when I first found her; I also spent an awful lot of time trying to grow my own weeds before deciding that wasn’t the best route for me.

You’re unlikely to do any immediate, drastic harm to Pebbles so long as you aren’t feeding a pile of sugary foods every day; you’ll figure out the right balance in time. You’re doing your research and asking questions, that’s always the best first sign.

Thank you for your advice, I'll have a look at that diet sheet and it's nice to know I don't need to worry too much as long as she's getting a varied diet!

 

[JoesMum]

I know an earlier poster has said to discard some of The Tortoise Table’s advice, and I agree that it is over cautious on occasion, but it does err on the safe side. You won’t harm your tortoise by following their advice. You could harm it by ignoring their advice; you have to be experienced enough to know what to ignore!

If you look up the plants that grow around you and those that you can buy using The Tortoise Table’s search facility you will not harm your tortoise and will find their is a wider variety of foods available than you thought.
https://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/

If you cannot ID anything growing, then post a photo in our Plant ID forum and someone should be able to help you.

 

[Pebbles2307]

I know an earlier poster has said to discard some of The Tortoise Table’s advice, and I agree that it is over cautious on occasion, but it does err on the safe side. You won’t harm your tortoise by following their advice. You could harm it by ignoring their advice; you have to be experienced enough to know what to ignore!

If you look up the plants that grow around you and those that you can buy using The Tortoise Table’s search facility you will not harm your tortoise and will find their is a wider variety of foods available than you thought.
https://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/

If you cannot ID anything growing, then post a photo in our Plant ID forum and someone should be able to help you.

Thank you for your help! Yeah I’m going to use the tortoise table as a guide but do extra research and she what she likes

 

[jsheffield]

I have the tortoise table app downloaded, along with PlantSnap, for plant identification.

Jamie

 

[Pebbles2307]

I have the tortoise table app downloaded, along with PlantSnap, for plant identification.

Jamie

Thank you, I hadn’t heard of plant snap!

 

[Lyn W]

Hi and welcome.
I suppose it's all down to confidence and experience.
I'm still not confident enough to ignore the tortoise table completely so use it as a guide. I haven't knowingly fed anything on the DO NOT FEED list and maybe it is over cautious but I wouldn't want to risk it. I also use the list of foods I have seen posted on TFO too.
When I am struggling to get enough weeds from safe places then I bulk them out with some salad bags - Aldi have a nice mixed leaf salad and a crispy salad - both with a good mix of leaves and they are quite cheap too.

 

[Pebbles2307]

Hi and welcome.
I suppose it's all down to confidence and experience.
I'm still not confident enough to ignore the tortoise table completely so use it as a guide. I haven't knowingly fed anything on the DO NOT FEED list and maybe it is over cautious but I wouldn't want to risk it. I also use the list of foods I have seen posted on TFO too.
When I am struggling to get enough weeds from safe places then I bulk them out with some salad bags - Aldi have a nice mixed leaf salad and a crispy salad - both with a good mix of leaves and they are quite cheap too.

Thank you! No I won’t risk feeding anything from the do not feed section

 

[Blackdog1714]

Don't worry too much! All the good weeds seem to be plentifull all over the earth like Plaintain (not the banana like fruit) and dandelions. Good luck

 

[Pebbles2307]

Don't worry too much! All the good weeds seem to be plentifull all over the earth like Plaintain (not the banana like fruit) and dandelions. Good luck

Thank you! Yeah there the main weeds I seem to be finding, and a lot of clover