Hatchling Box Turtle Not Walking

TNBoxie

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Hello! I've been reading and absorbing info on this page for a while, but I've recently obtained a new hatchling and can't find a lot of info on how to care for it's specific issues. Both of my hatchlings were hatched in captivity. I received the first one at the beginning of the summer (Nickels). I set Nickles up outside until night temps started dropping this month, since he won't be brumating for the first few years. Now it is moved indoors. Nickels is doing great. He has more than doubled in size, is active, and a great eater.
Now onto my "problem" turtle, Tiny Tim. This hatchling was discovered the first week of October. I was out of town when my friend found him. She had no supplies to care for him so she dropped him off at my house in the same habitat with Nickels. When I got home two days later, I immediately noticed some differences and separated Tiny Tim from Nickels.
The first night, he did not move more than a couple inches from where I put him. It appears that he only uses his front legs. All his legs are reactive when I touch them and I notice small movement on the back ones when he tries to move, but for the most part, he never moves more than an inch or two from where I last saw him. He rarely retracts into his shell. He can retract, but doesn't stay that way long. Sometimes I wonder if part of it is his personality, because he just seems a lot less timid than Nickels. I swear this turtle makes eye contact. He's super alert, just not active and walks kind of weird.
Based on my research, this could either be deficiencies or bowel impaction? But I really haven't found info on this issue specific to a hatchling. I've spotted bowel movement when I put him in some water to soak (about 30 min a day). His shell is speckled as if it is dry in spots, but maybe it's just hard water? I'm afraid he was kept too dry after hatching. I believe I've identified some shell damage from when he lived with the adult turtles as well. Scratches and dents at the side and back of his shell. His limbs have no visible damage. You can still see a small spot where his yolk sack has absorbed, so I suspect he is around 2 weeks old.
His eating habits: He had a bit of night crawler the first day. The third day, I offered bloodworm and he didn't even try it. Today was the first time he truly ate. I put him in a separate container in a dark space and he ate half a chopped bloodworm and some blueberry. So, much like his walking, he just seems too weak to do it.
My first hatchling didn't eat much until the yolk sack was completely invisible, so I'm not excessively worried yet. I weighed him yesterday and he is about 8 grams. I'll continue to monitor every other day.
His habitat: organic cedar mulch with a layer of organic topsoil and compost. Dried Magnolia leaves and a hide log. UVB and Heating light for approx 10 hours a day. Daytime temps hang around 75 - 80°. Nighttime gets to 68-70° in the house. Humidity stays in the 80 - 90% range.
I've attached a video of him "walking." He does better in a container with no substrate. He seems to get stuck a lot in his habitat. He sometimes does better than these videos, but only once a day or so.
We don't really have Exotic vets here in tn since turtles aren't sold as pets, so my next option is to give him into rehabilitation care. If he can't get well with me, I think this is a great option if he is healthy enough to live.
 

The_Four_Toed_Edward

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To attach a video you first have to post it on a video sharing platform like youtube pr instagram and then share us a link.

Could you send us photos of the shell damage? I am no expert, but nerve damage is the first thing that comes to mind, or a birth defect as he is so young,
 

TNBoxie

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Oct 9, 2024
Messages
15
Location (City and/or State)
TN
Hello! I've been reading and absorbing info on this page for a while, but I've recently obtained a new hatchling and can't find a lot of info on how to care for it's specific issues. Both of my hatchlings were hatched in captivity. I received the first one at the beginning of the summer (Nickels). I set Nickles up outside until night temps started dropping this month, since he won't be brumating for the first few years. Now it is moved indoors. Nickels is doing great. He has more than doubled in size, is active, and a great eater.
Now onto my "problem" turtle, Tiny Tim. This hatchling was discovered the first week of October. I was out of town when my friend found him. She had no supplies to care for him so she dropped him off at my house in the same habitat with Nickels. When I got home two days later, I immediately noticed some differences and separated Tiny Tim from Nickels.
The first night, he did not move more than a couple inches from where I put him. It appears that he only uses his front legs. All his legs are reactive when I touch them and I notice small movement on the back ones when he tries to move, but for the most part, he never moves more than an inch or two from where I last saw him. He rarely retracts into his shell. He can retract, but doesn't stay that way long. Sometimes I wonder if part of it is his personality, because he just seems a lot less timid than Nickels. I swear this turtle makes eye contact. He's super alert, just not active and walks kind of weird.
Based on my research, this could either be deficiencies or bowel impaction? But I really haven't found info on this issue specific to a hatchling. I've spotted bowel movement when I put him in some water to soak (about 30 min a day). His shell is speckled as if it is dry in spots, but maybe it's just hard water? I'm afraid he was kept too dry after hatching. I believe I've identified some shell damage from when he lived with the adult turtles as well. Scratches and dents at the side and back of his shell. His limbs have no visible damage. You can still see a small spot where his yolk sack has absorbed, so I suspect he is around 2 weeks old.
His eating habits: He had a bit of night crawler the first day. The third day, I offered bloodworm and he didn't even try it. Today was the first time he truly ate. I put him in a separate container in a dark space and he ate half a chopped bloodworm and some blueberry. So, much like his walking, he just seems too weak to do it.
My first hatchling didn't eat much until the yolk sack was completely invisible, so I'm not excessively worried yet. I weighed him yesterday and he is about 8 grams. I'll continue to monitor every other day.
His habitat: organic cedar mulch with a layer of organic topsoil and compost. Dried Magnolia leaves and a hide log. UVB and Heating light for approx 10 hours a day. Daytime temps hang around 75 - 80°. Nighttime gets to 68-70° in the house. Humidity stays in the 80 - 90% range.
I've attached a video of him "walking." He does better in a container with no substrate. He seems to get stuck a lot in his habitat. He sometimes does better than these videos, but only once a day or so.
We don't really have Exotic vets here in tn since turtles aren't sold as pets, so my next option is to give him into rehabilitation care. If he can't get well with me, I think this is a great option if he is healthy enough to live.
Here is a video of him "walking."
 

TNBoxie

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To attach a video you first have to post it on a video sharing platform like youtube pr instagram and then share us a link.

Could you send us photos of the shell damage? I am no expert, but nerve damage is the first thing that comes to mind, or a birth defect as he is so young,
Thank you. It looked like it uploaded initially, so I guess I was confused. Video in the comments below. Here is the shell damage/deformity. Sorry my cammera focus is tragic.
So he can't lift the back of his body up? @Tom @zovick @Yvonne G what could cause this in a hatchling?
That seems to be the case. He just drags himself.
 

The_Four_Toed_Edward

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Any possibility it could be nerve damage from a toxin? Like pine bark fumes or something like that? Something he has eaten maybe in his past home?
 

TNBoxie

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Any possibility it could be nerve damage from a toxin? Like pine bark fumes or something like that? Something he has eaten maybe in his past home?
Maybe, but he was in with 5 other adult turtles and they are all fine. I can imagine he would be more susceptible, but nothing was intentionally or noticeably changed in their habitat.
 

zovick

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Here is a video of him "walking."
Maybe it would be a good idea to raise him in water instead of on land. Most people seem to have the best success with baby Box Turtles raised in water for the first year or so.

Can this baby swim? Maybe some hydrotherapy would help its back legs gain function.
 

TNBoxie

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Maybe it would be a good idea to raise him in water instead on land. Most people seem to have best success with baby Box Turtles raised in water.

Can this baby swim? Maybe some hydrotherapy would help its back legs gain function.
He seems more active in water. I was actually just watching some Garden State Tortoise videos and I think I'll give it a try. He seems to love his daily soaks anyway.
 

The_Four_Toed_Edward

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Maybe it would be a good idea to raise him in water instead of on land. Most people seem to have the best success with baby Box Turtles raised in water for the first year or so.

Can this baby swim? Maybe some hydrotherapy would help its back legs gain function.
What do you think of the shell damage?
 

TNBoxie

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I don't really see the damages at the sides and rear of the shell described by the OP.
Do you mean the white areas? Not sure what to make of those.
20241011_074903.jpg
It's really just the outer rim of his shell (marginal scute?). He's wiggly despite the inability to walk and my camera is bad, but you can kind of see how it's misshapen here. Nothing severe looking.
 

Ink

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Could the white be shell rot? I'm not an expert but also the color of the overall shell seems different???
 

TNBoxie

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Could the white be shell rot? I'm not an expert but also the color of the overall shell seems different???
It's not at all soft at this point. It doesn't match a lot of the pictures I have compared it to, but I don't feel like it rules it out either. It doesn't seem to get better or worse.
 

Ink

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Have you tried mealworms or cutting up the worms? My box turtle loves blueberries too.
 

TNBoxie

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Have you tried mealworms or cutting up the worms? My box turtle loves blueberries too.
I cut up bloodworm yesterday and he at a lot. The meal worms we had wrestled so hard they flipped over my healthy baby boxie. 😅 Guess I'll have to commit to chopping those bad boys up, too.
 
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Ink

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I had a difficult time with my 1 month (?) old boxie eating different foods. There is a pinned post on the forum about foods for boxies. I only mention the food because maybe he'll get stronger? Can you put a minnow in with him during water therapy? Maybe he'll chase it and eat it?
 

TNBoxie

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I had a difficult time with my 1 month (?) old boxie eating different foods. There is a pinned post on the forum about foods for boxies. I only mention the food because maybe he'll get stronger? Can you put a minnow in with him during water therapy? Maybe he'll chase it and eat it?
I'm hoping the same thing. My first boxie took at least two weeks to eat but he was always so strong. This one is almost floppy weak in the limbs. He does seem stronger today after his good meal yesterday. He was raising up good on those front legs. The minnows are a great idea. Thanks!
 

Ink

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I'm hoping the same thing. My first boxie took at least two weeks to eat but he was always so strong. This one is almost floppy weak in the limbs. He does seem stronger today after his good meal yesterday. He was raising up good on those front legs. The minnows are a great idea. Thanks!
I hope it helps. Please keep us posted
 

TNBoxie

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Tiny Tim is still with us! I think he is enjoying the water therapy recommended here. His shell color/spots are still there, but somewhat less noticeable. I'm about to move him into a larger shoebox sized container now that he is consistently moving to both ends of his little container. His appetite is increasing, but he still doesn't "hunt" his food very well. He hasn't gained weight yet either. When put on soil/wood chip terrain, he is able to move a couple inches and is even attempting to dig a hiding space. That's progress, but still not a lot of use of his back legs. I suppose time will tell what is going on with this critter.
 

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