Healthy Tortoise Shell

Yvonne G

Old Timer
TFO Admin
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
93,388
Location (City and/or State)
Clovis, CA
that's because in that picture we can't see the leg scales. But now that we know, it's also obvious from his head he's not a sulcata.
 

Markw84

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
5,041
Location (City and/or State)
Sacramento, CA (Central Valley)

Markw84

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
5,041
Location (City and/or State)
Sacramento, CA (Central Valley)
Don't feel bad about the confusion in identification. For years, the chaco was considered the closest living relative to the sulcata. Scientists theorized about how it could have got to South America from Africa and remained so much more like sulcatas than any other species, most of which were much closer geographically. Back then, without mitochondrial DNA evaluations, based upon looks many considered the young almost identical. Of course sulcatas got much larger so easy to tell adults apart. Now with the genetic assessments, the closest relative is actually the Galapagos tortoises!

Whenever I tried to teach folks how to ID a chaco, many simply could not do it. I worked for a reptile wholesaler/importer for a time when younger. I guess looking at so many tortoises, I became used to seeing subtle differences while others simply thought they looked the same. Head shape is one example as @Yvonne G has mentioned. To me there is a big difference in the way the head looks, but nothing specific you can explain.

With young tortoises there were 3 main differences I thought were easiest for folks to see. I've already mentioned the first 2.

1. The easiest difference for most to see is the front legs. The scales of the front legs of a sulcata are VERY distictive. Huge, enlarged protective scales Along the top edge of the front legs almost forms a saw-like formation. The enlarged scales actually protrude outwards. I'll post the picture I did for comparison again below.

2. Sulcatas even have enlarged scales in the "brow" directly over the eye. A chaco will have small, smooth scales over the eye.

chaco vs sulcata.jpg

3. Since you posted more pictures on your other thread, I have a butt picture to talk about. The butt shot of a young sulcata is very distinctive. Some refer to the butterfly scale just above the tail that looks like the back half of butterfly wings. Although still serrated, the supracaudal of a chaco is relatively "normal" and straight across. I took a picture at bath time today and tried to pick one the same size as yours. Sulcata on right and 3 mos old.

chaco sulcata butt.jpg
 

iAmCentrochelys sulcata

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2019
Messages
1,322
Location (City and/or State)
Alief
Don't feel bad about the confusion in identification. For years, the chaco was considered the closest living relative to the sulcata. Scientists theorized about how it could have got to South America from Africa and remained so much more like sulcatas than any other species, most of which were much closer geographically. Back then, without mitochondrial DNA evaluations, based upon looks many considered the young almost identical. Of course sulcatas got much larger so easy to tell adults apart. Now with the genetic assessments, the closest relative is actually the Galapagos tortoises!

Whenever I tried to teach folks how to ID a chaco, many simply could not do it. I worked for a reptile wholesaler/importer for a time when younger. I guess looking at so many tortoises, I became used to seeing subtle differences while others simply thought they looked the same. Head shape is one example as @Yvonne G has mentioned. To me there is a big difference in the way the head looks, but nothing specific you can explain.

With young tortoises there were 3 main differences I thought were easiest for folks to see. I've already mentioned the first 2.

1. The easiest difference for most to see is the front legs. The scales of the front legs of a sulcata are VERY distictive. Huge, enlarged protective scales Along the top edge of the front legs almost forms a saw-like formation. The enlarged scales actually protrude outwards. I'll post the picture I did for comparison again below.

2. Sulcatas even have enlarged scales in the "brow" directly over the eye. A chaco will have small, smooth scales over the eye.

View attachment 290660

3. Since you posted more pictures on your other thread, I have a butt picture to talk about. The butt shot of a young sulcata is very distinctive. Some refer to the butterfly scale just above the tail that looks like the back half of butterfly wings. Although still serrated, the supracaudal of a chaco is relatively "normal" and straight across. I took a picture at bath time today and tried to pick one the same size as yours. Sulcata on right and 3 mos old.

View attachment 290662
i guess i will see in a few years, i find it that he/she is Thriving. she eat a lot.
 

iAmCentrochelys sulcata

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2019
Messages
1,322
Location (City and/or State)
Alief
Back in the day (late 70s/early 80s) they were readily imported. I got a pair for around $50 each but ended up selling them the following year while trying to get my TAS (Tortoise Acquisition Syndrome) under control...I'm better now.
is mine one?
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,264
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
How would a CB Chaco end up in a Texas pet store that didn't know what it was and sold it for $140? That doesn't make sense.

I've seen a lot of variation in sulcata leg scales and it depends on how they are raised and what their environment is like.

@iAmCentrochelys sulcata can we get more pics of the baby? More pics from when you first got it too? Post a whole bunch of close up from different angles, and plastron shots too. This is very intriguing.
 

Toddrickfl1

Well-Known Member
Tortoise Club
5 Year Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 7, 2018
Messages
7,103
Location (City and/or State)
Ga
How would a CB Chaco end up in a Texas pet store that didn't know what it was and sold it for $140? That doesn't make sense.

I've seen a lot of variation in sulcata leg scales and it depends on how they are raised and what their environment is like.

@iAmCentrochelys sulcata can we get more pics of the baby? More pics from when you first got it too? Post a whole bunch of close up from different angles, and plastron shots too. This is very intriguing.
He's in Texas. My guess is that maybe somehow someone brought this Tortoise across the border, perhaps illegally. Then it was brought to a pet shop and sold. The pet shop probably looked at it and thought it was a Sulcata. Neither party knowing what it actually was. Just my theory.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,264
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
He's in Texas. My guess is that maybe somehow someone brought this Tortoise across the border, perhaps illegally. Then it was brought to a pet shop and sold. The pet shop probably looked at it and thought it was a Sulcata. Neither party knowing what it actually was. Just my theory.
I suppose that is possible.
 

New Posts

Top