HELP/ADVICE PLEASE UVB-Ferguson zone 3

[Thundersnow]

Good morning,
I just bought Solarmeter 6.5R. According to the Ferguson zone my 7 month old Indian Star tortoise should be in zone 3.Presently he/she is in a 40 gallon tank with two front glass doors.The entire top is covered in foil.I have a lamp with incandescent bulb on during the daytime for heat and at night I switch a ceramic lamp for heat.
Running the length of the tank is a Zoo Med Reptisun UVB 10.0 HO light I purchased May 2021. When I pointed the meter to measure the UV index it reached the required 3 it was approx.6" blow the light source.That means I have to find a basking platform high enough to be 6" from the light source or substantially raise the substrate.The tank has small vents running its length.If i make the substrate higher it will block the vents and also fall out onto the floor.I don't think my tortoise would climb that high with a steep platform.He likes to be in his hide most of the time and comes out to bask under the heat source.I would appreciate advice on how to tackle this.

 

[TeamZissou]

Do you have anything between the lamp and the substrate, such as a wire mesh screen?

What kind of fixture is the 10.0 bulb in? Does it have a reflector? Is it a T5 or T8?

A T5 lamp in a fixture with a reflector should give a UVI of at least 3 at around 22" above the substrate. It's also possible that you got a bad bulb.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Do you have anything between the lamp and the substrate, such as a wire mesh screen?

What kind of fixture is the 10.0 bulb in? Does it have a reflector? Is it a T5 or T8?

A T5 lamp in a fixture with a reflector should give a UVI of at least 3 at around 22" above the substrate. It's also possible that you got a bad bulb.

I agree with @TeamZissou
That reading at 6" seems way off for a T5 HO 10.0
But about right for a T8.
A T8 10.0 provides very little UVB past 8"and if that's what you have. It needs to be suspended no more than 8" away (6"?)from the tortoise.
And if that's what you have, I highly recommend getting a T5 setup in the near future.
If you DO HAVE a T5 now, there is something very wrong with that tube. Or the way you've read the meter.

 

[Tom]

Good morning,
I just bought Solarmeter 6.5R. According to the Ferguson zone my 7 month old Indian Star tortoise should be in zone 3.Presently he/she is in a 40 gallon tank with two front glass doors.The entire top is covered in foil.I have a lamp with incandescent bulb on during the daytime for heat and at night I switch a ceramic lamp for heat.
Running the length of the tank is a Zoo Med Reptisun UVB 10.0 HO light I purchased May 2021. When I pointed the meter to measure the UV index it reached the required 3 it was approx.6" blow the light source.That means I have to find a basking platform high enough to be 6" from the light source or substantially raise the substrate.The tank has small vents running its length.If i make the substrate higher it will block the vents and also fall out onto the floor.I don't think my tortoise would climb that high with a steep platform.He likes to be in his hide most of the time and comes out to bask under the heat source.I would appreciate advice on how to tackle this.

... or... just lower the bulb. Your fixture should be suspended above the tortoise so that you can raise or lower it for this adjustment.

Don't worry too much about the Ferguson Zone suggestions. Anywhere from 2-6 on your meter will be fine. For a 2, I'd let it run longer. For a reading of 6, I'd only run the bulb for an hour or two mid day.

You also need a thermostat on your CHE, and a timer on your heat lamp, instead of switching the two.

 

[Thundersnow]

... or... just lower the bulb. Your fixture should be suspended above the tortoise so that you can raise or lower it for this adjustment.

Don't worry too much about the Ferguson Zone suggestions. Anywhere from 2-6 on your meter will be fine. For a 2, I'd let it run longer. For a reading of 6, I'd only run the bulb for an hour or two mid day.

You also need a thermostat on your CHE, and a timer on your heat lamp, instead of switching the two.

Hi Tom,I was hoping you would chime in I can't lower it because the bulb is 36" long in a hood that rests on to of the tank.I know they make shorter ones but I would have no clue how suspend it over my little kid.
I have my incandescent light on usually 12 hrs daily then switch over to my ceramic heat overnight.Both have automatic shut off at 85.1 degrees. I constantly spray filtered water on the coconut fiber substrate to keep the humidity up just like you said.I have two humidity gauges one at each end of the tank along with thermometers.

 

[Thundersnow]

Do you have anything between the lamp and the substrate, such as a wire mesh screen?

What kind of fixture is the 10.0 bulb in? Does it have a reflector? Is it a T5 or T8?

A T5 lamp in a fixture with a reflector should give a UVI of at least 3 at around 22" above the substrate. It's also possible that you got a bad bulb.

No.T8 Yes it has a reflector.The underside of the hood which holds the bulb has what looks like it's mirrored so I am assuming that is the reflective material.I appreciate your responding.Thank you

 

[Tom]

Hi Tom,I was hoping you would chime in I can't lower it because the bulb is 36" long in a hood that rests on to of the tank.I know they make shorter ones but I would have no clue how suspend it over my little kid.
I have my incandescent light on usually 12 hrs daily then switch over to my ceramic heat overnight.Both have automatic shut off at 85.1 degrees. I constantly spray filtered water on the coconut fiber substrate to keep the humidity up just like you said.I have two humidity gauges one at each end of the tank along with thermometers.

Your lighting set up is a no go. The basking bulb needs to stay on all day and get up to 100 degrees directly under the bulb. You don't want the "sun" shutting on and off all day, AND 85.1 is on the low side for ambient all over the tank too. It is very hot in India, and these little guys thrive in hotter weather. Ambient temp should climb into the low 90s daily, with it even hotter directly under the bulb. Having the heat shut off at 85 is not ideal for this species.

Best to set the heat lamp on a timer. If it is overheating the whole tank to over 95-96, then use a lower wattage bulb and move it closer to the tortoise to get the correct basking temperature, or run a separate thermostat set to 96 on your heat lamp. It won't shut off as much that way, and your tortoise will still be protected from overheating. If you do the thermostat thing and the bulbs is going on and off several times a day, then you need a lower wattage bulb.

The CHE should just be set on its thermostat and "on" 24/7. On a colder day you might need the CHE and the heat lamp on at the same time. CHEs are meant to maintain ambient 24/7 with a thermostat. Heat lamps are meant to simulate the heat of the day when the sun is shining. You should be running both, not one and then the other.

It is necessary both with heat lamps and with UV tubes to be able to adjust them up or down. This is why they need to be suspended from above. HO tubes come in 34 inch lengths, so it should fit inside the tank, unless your HO fixture is an inch longer than the tube on each end. Having everything inside will also make heat and humidity maintenance much easier. If your current enclosure cannot accommodate this, then I recommend getting something else.

 

[Thundersnow]

Your lighting set up is a no go. The basking bulb needs to stay on all day and get up to 100 degrees directly under the bulb. You don't want the "sun" shutting on and off all day, AND 85.1 is on the low side for ambient all over the tank too. It is very hot in India, and these little guys thrive in hotter weather. Ambient temp should climb into the low 90s daily, with it even hotter directly under the bulb. Having the heat shut off at 85 is not ideal for this species.

Best to set the heat lamp on a timer. If it is overheating the whole tank to over 95-96, then use a lower wattage bulb and move it closer to the tortoise to get the correct basking temperature, or run a separate thermostat set to 96 on your heat lamp. It won't shut off as much that way, and your tortoise will still be protected from overheating. If you do the thermostat thing and the bulbs is going on and off several times a day, then you need a lower wattage bulb.

The CHE should just be set on its thermostat and "on" 24/7. On a colder day you might need the CHE and the heat lamp on at the same time. CHEs are meant to maintain ambient 24/7 with a thermostat. Heat lamps are meant to simulate the heat of the day when the sun is shining. You should be running both, not one and then the other.

It is necessary both with heat lamps and with UV tubes to be able to adjust them up or down. This is why they need to be suspended from above. HO tubes come in 34 inch lengths, so it should fit inside the tank, unless your HO fixture is an inch longer than the tube on each end. Having everything inside will also make heat and humidity maintenance much easier. If your current enclosure cannot accommodate this, then I recommend getting something else.

You are always full of great info.My little kid never gets under that bulb directly.He acts as if it's too hot.I bend some foil to give him shade on top of his hide then he isn't hiding in the corner away from the hot light.I will make the changes you suggested.Thanks so much.<3

 

[Thundersnow]

Your lighting set up is a no go. The basking bulb needs to stay on all day and get up to 100 degrees directly under the bulb. You don't want the "sun" shutting on and off all day, AND 85.1 is on the low side for ambient all over the tank too. It is very hot in India, and these little guys thrive in hotter weather. Ambient temp should climb into the low 90s daily, with it even hotter directly under the bulb. Having the heat shut off at 85 is not ideal for this species.

Best to set the heat lamp on a timer. If it is overheating the whole tank to over 95-96, then use a lower wattage bulb and move it closer to the tortoise to get the correct basking temperature, or run a separate thermostat set to 96 on your heat lamp. It won't shut off as much that way, and your tortoise will still be protected from overheating. If you do the thermostat thing and the bulbs is going on and off several times a day, then you need a lower wattage bulb.

The CHE should just be set on its thermostat and "on" 24/7. On a colder day you might need the CHE and the heat lamp on at the same time. CHEs are meant to maintain ambient 24/7 with a thermostat. Heat lamps are meant to simulate the heat of the day when the sun is shining. You should be running both, not one and then the other.

It is necessary both with heat lamps and with UV tubes to be able to adjust them up or down. This is why they need to be suspended from above. HO tubes come in 34 inch lengths, so it should fit inside the tank, unless your HO fixture is an inch longer than the tube on each end. Having everything inside will also make heat and humidity maintenance much easier. If your current enclosure cannot accommodate this, then I recommend getting something else.

Tom what is your opinion on this new product?

 

[Tom]

Tom what is your opinion on this new product?

I just saw that for the first time at this year's TTPG conference in AZ. ZooMed always sponsors the event and has a little table with new products on display. They had one of these there and had a UV meter there for us to play with. It seems to work and gives off great UV levels. Being LED, it won't overheat closed chambers, and I would expect it to also last a long time.

I've never used one over tortoises, so I can't say from experience that it is safe or effective yet, but it seems like it would be both.

 

[Thundersnow]

I just saw that for the first time at this year's TTPG conference in AZ. ZooMed always sponsors the event and has a little table with new products on display. They had one of these there and had a UV meter there for us to play with. It seems to work and gives off great UV levels. Being LED, it won't overheat closed chambers, and I would expect it to also last a long time.

I've never used one over tortoises, so I can't say from experience that it is safe or effective yet, but it seems like it would be both.

 

[Thundersnow]

I was informed by another person replying to my question that I need a t5 Reptisun uvb not the t8 that I have. Do you think I should go with the t5 or try this new bulb. The new bulb retails for $179. and I would need to buy a hood to mount it in. I value your experience and opinion. My little tortoise is the apple of my eye so I want to do the best to keep him/her healthy and happy. I raised the thermostat to 95 degrees

 

[Tom]

I was informed by another person replying to my question that I need a t5 Reptisun uvb not the t8 that I have. Do you think I should go with the t5 or try this new bulb. The new bulb retails for $179. and I would need to buy a hood to mount it in. I value your experience and opinion. My little tortoise is the apple of my eye so I want to do the best to keep him/her healthy and happy. I raised the thermostat to 95 degrees

The enclosure should not be set at 95 degrees all the time. The CHE thermostat should be set to the 85 where you had it. If you want to run a second thermostat on your basking bulb because it runs hot and sometimes overheats the enclosure, then THAT one should be set to 95.

I know the Arcadia 12% HO tubes work great because I use them. The ZooMed HO 10.0 tubes supposedly work well too. I don't have any experience with these new LED ones, but they look good so far. The choice is yours, but you will need the ability to raise and lower any of them.

 

[Tom]

I was informed by another person replying to my question that I need a t5 Reptisun uvb not the t8 that I have. Do you think I should go with the t5 or try this new bulb. The new bulb retails for $179. and I would need to buy a hood to mount it in. I value your experience and opinion. My little tortoise is the apple of my eye so I want to do the best to keep him/her healthy and happy. I raised the thermostat to 95 degrees

There are four elements to heating and lighting:

1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. You'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night.
3. Light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in LED bulb types are both fine.
4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In colder climates, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12% HO bulbs from Arcadia. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html

 

[ZEROPILOT]

There are four elements to heating and lighting:

1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. You'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night.
3. Light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in LED bulb types are both fine.
4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In colder climates, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12% HO bulbs from Arcadia. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html

The OP was asking about the effectiveness of a T8 vs a T5
I previously recommended the switch to T5 because T8 has such a limited range for adequate UVB.
And it was you who got me to start using T5.

 

[Thundersnow]

I just lowered the thermostat as per your instruction back to 85. The top of his hide is flat and it’s a constant 90 degrees as I have a thermometer at the same height where he basks next to it. I bought 10 65 watt flood incandescent bulbs just like you said a while back. That’s where he gets his daytime heat. At night I switch out to the ceramic overhead heating element which maintains the 90 degrees

 

[ZEROPILOT]

I have my T5 UVB lights attached to the ceiling with light swag chains from the hardware store so that I can very easily raise them or lower them according to the UVB meter reading at different points of the tubes lives.
I use these for my Chameleons.
My tortoises all live outdoors
My experience with keeping tortoises indoors is actually pretty limited. But this type of mounting should be relevent.

 

[Thundersnow]

Makes sense but that setup with the light hanging from the ceiling won’t work for me. I’d appreciate your input. Thanks