Help! I’m worried about my Hermanns tortoise

[Koopakyoto]

Hi everyone,

I was wondering if you could please help us - we have recently bought two Hermanns tortoises that are both just over one year old.

One weighs 69g and the other weighs 98g. The one who weighs 98g has started walking really funnily today. She looks as if she is wobbling and she’s pushing the bottom of her shell along the carpet when we get her out, scraping her shell vigorously from side to side. Does anyone know why she might be doing this - we were wondering if is she obese for her age? Or could this lack of exercise? We get them out every other day for 10 minutes and she seems to be walking fine in her vivarium.

While bathing her, she was opening her mouth often and making a gasping sound in the air. It was so sad

Also, both of them have been trying to scratch their way out of their vivarium - could anyone please tell us what the reason might be for this? It’s a 4 foot one and the temperature is 85 degrees Fahrenheit.

Thank you in advance!

 

[Herman_WA]

Does she have and discharge around nose and eyes? May we see some pics of her?
I have also heard it is not recommended to keep 2 torts in the same enclosure, because the tend to bully each other.
I only have on hermann, so I don't have any personal experience of this.

Also welcome to the forum! You came to the right place!

 

[Herman_WA]

Also I am quite sure 4ft is too small for 2 torts.

Please correct me if any of my info is wrong.

 

[Koopakyoto]

Does she have and discharge around nose and eyes? May we see some pics of her?
I have also heard it is not recommended to keep 2 torts in the same enclosure, because the tend to bully each other.
I only have on hermann, so I don't have any personal experience of this.

Also welcome to the forum! You came to the right place!

Thank you! We can’t see any discharge around her eyes and nose, but I have attached some pictures of the way she was wobbling (I can’t attach the video that we took, which is annoying!)
And thank you, it’s so hard to know what’s right and what’s wrong - the woman at the reptile store we bought them from said that they were fine together and that 4 foot was the biggest vivarium we would ever need. Difficult!

 

[Herman_WA]

Hmm.. don't know about the wobbling. The more experienced owners will help you with that.
That's the problem with pet stores, they tell you almost all the wrong stuff.

 

[Seb]

Do you regularly use calcium powder/nutrobal on their food? When you push their legs into their shell (gently of course!) do they push back against your fingers with some strength?

As for opening their mouth, that is a possible sign for a respiratory infection. What are the temps in your enclosure (hot side, cool side, overnight)?

 

[Seb]

In terms of their environment, they're scratching in their viv because it's way too small for them. When kept in pairs, tortoises bully each other. They're solitary creatures and don't get "lonely". They need their own space otherwise they will fight for everything - food, the basking spot, etc.

Also, are you letting them roam free in your home? That is a major issue as it regularly ends in disaster - they can eat something toxic or get injured. They will also realise how big the world is outside their enclosure and want to escape even more. Plus, they won't be getting the heat and humidity they need whilst roaming on the floor.

Can you post pictures of your setup and we can help?

 

[JoesMum]

1. Are they living together?
If so, the smaller one is likely being mentally bullied by the bigger one. This can lead to sickness. They aren’t social and don’t need or want company. Another tortoise is simply a rival for food and space. They should be separated asap.

2. If you have any doubts about the health of one of them they must be separated to ensure the other one doesn’t get sick too.

Please read this threads about the care required by this species and compare it with what you have. Photos of your enclosure and lighting will help us to help you further

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

www.tortoiseforum.org

Also give this a read about bullying

Signs of bullying in young tortoises

'Following' is a form of "mad dogging". Cuddling and sleeping in the same area is a form of trying to crowd the other out of the territory. Does one or both sit on the food? That's another one. Outward, obvious hostility like biting, ramming, or flipping seldom happens with juveniles. The...

www.tortoiseforum.org

 

[Koopakyoto]

Do you regularly use calcium powder/nutrobal on their food? When you push their legs into their shell (gently of course!) do they push back against your fingers with some strength?

As for opening their mouth, that is a possible sign for a respiratory infection. What are the temps in your enclosure (hot side, cool side, overnight)?

Hiya, thank you for your response! Yes, we put calcium on their food every other day, and minerals on their food on the days inbetween, so there is always either minerals or calcium powder on their food. When we push their legs back, they do push back with some strength (she seems to be a little bit better today?)
In terms of temperature, the hot side is 80-85 Fahrenheit - we tried putting the thermometer at the cool end but the temp hasn’t yet gone down. Overnight, it is just room temperature.

 

[Koopakyoto]

We have removed the food for the moment so they can be monitored eating.
Thank you all!

 

[JoesMum]

The enclosure is too dry. Please read the care sheet I linked to before. The substrate needs to be an earthy type that can be mixed with water until all of it is evenly damp right to the bottom and into the corners. This raises humidity.

These two must be separated. That are not social and the smaller one is undoubtedly the subordinate tortoise. The bigger one will be telling it to leave. It’s explained in the other thread I linked to.

Please don’t remove food. By separating them, they will both relax and eat properly. They need food made available first thing in the morning so that they can browse on it throughout the day.

 

[Koopakyoto]

The enclosure is too dry. Please read the care sheet I linked to before. The substrate needs to be an earthy type that can be mixed with water until all of it is evenly damp right to the bottom and into the corners. This raises humidity.

These two must be separated. That are not social and the smaller one is undoubtedly the subordinate tortoise. The bigger one will be telling it to leave. It’s explained in the other thread I linked to.

Please don’t remove food. By separating them, they will both relax and eat properly. They need food made available first thing in the morning so that they can browse on it throughout the day.

OK fab thank you, we will read the care sheet thoroughly. We were advised that having two tortoises together is fine - as far as we have seen, it is actually the smaller tortoise that seems to be very authoritative! But we will have a look into doing this also, thank you.

 

[JoesMum]

OK fab thank you, we will read the care sheet thoroughly. We were advised that having two tortoises together is fine - as far as we have seen, it is actually the smaller tortoise that seems to be very authoritative! But we will have a look into doing this also, thank you.

Unfortunately there is a lot of outdated information out on the internet and from pet stores and, sadly, from some breeders and vets too.

We see people coming on here all the time who have been told that keeping them as a pair is fine. That one of your s is 50% heavier than the other suggests that the dominance has already started. The smaller one will continue not to thrive. It is stressed and if not separated will become sick in the longer term.

A group of 3 or more of similar size, with only one confirmed male, may succeed in a very large enclosure with loads of sight barriers. There are no guarantees even then.

Pairs just don’t work. They cannot escape the attention

 

[Seb]

Please, please read the care sheet! Print it out, stick it on your fridge, follow it all. Honestly, it is THE best way to care for your torts.

In terms of temps, you'll need a ceramic heat emitter (CHE) for the night because your torts will be way too cold and unable to thrive. Also, is that your temp probe hanging from the ceiling? Move it down to floor level - you need to know what the temp is for your tortoise so it needs to be at their level. Heat rises so the ceiling will be naturally warmer than the floor space