Help needed

zovick

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Nov 17, 2013
Messages
3,386
She has lived in my back garden for over 2 yrs .. I have no dogs, no cows or any other animals that might have caused her injury. The CCTV footage shows that she was fine earlier this morning. Struggled to move after being in the sun on one spot for nearly an hour.
If you haven't yet read the thread......she had laid an egg this afternoon which confuses me more as she has no mate.

The big question is to I have her put down considering the injury?
Yes, I did read the entire thread. I still have a really hard time believing an injury like that could have occurred with no force being exerted on the tortoise. I have been keeping turtles and tortoises since 1953 and I have never seen an injury like that "just happen" on any of my numerous animals.

You don't have any spiteful neighbors who might have stomped on it do you? Is your CCTV continuous or does it show moments in time, such as every 10 or 15 minutes which would allow for some type of trauma to occur without your knowledge?

As Teamzissou said, there is not a need to put the tortoise down as long as it is eating and walking around. The wound needs to be kept clean and you should try to keep the pieces of the shell together as you have by binding or taping around the animal.

Some of the wild turtles I have found had cracks nearly 1.5 cm wide in their shells which had healed over with new skin because the shell pieces were too far apart for the shell to grow together again. Keeping the shell together should allow for a good healing process to take place.

A vet visit might be valuable as the vet might be able to bind the would up neatly plus give you antibiotics to prevent infection in addition to taking an X-ray to check for more eggs inside the animal.
 

rrahim

New Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2021
Messages
11
Location (City and/or State)
Cape Town
It wouldn't be a bad idea to take her to a vet for an X-ray to see if there are any more eggs inside. Like @zovick said, it takes a lot of force to break a shell, and possible internal pressurization from egg binding causing this type of splitting seems unlikely. If her entire internal cavity was filled with eggs, they would put pressure on the organs and she would stop eating and display other problems over a longer period.

You do not have to put her down. Keep offering food and see if she will eat, and if she does, great. If not, you can look in to tube or forced feeding. The shell will heal over time, possibly 2+ years until it's fully restored. The key is keeping it clean through this critical phase post injury.
Thank you! Intend taking her to vet tomorrow.
 

rrahim

New Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2021
Messages
11
Location (City and/or State)
Cape Town
Yes, I did read the entire thread. I still have a really hard time believing an injury like that could have occurred with no force being exerted on the tortoise. I have been keeping turtles and tortoises since 1953 and I have never seen an injury like that "just happen" on any of my numerous animals.

You don't have any spiteful neighbors who might have stomped on it do you? Is your CCTV continuous or does it show moments in time, such as every 10 or 15 minutes which would allow for some type of trauma to occur without your knowledge?

As Teamzissou said, there is not a need to put the tortoise down as long as it is eating and walking around. The wound needs to be kept clean and you should try to keep the pieces of the shell together as you have by binding or taping around the animal.

Some of the wild turtles I have found had cracks nearly 1.5 cm wide in their shells which had healed over with new skin because the shell pieces were too far apart for the shell to grow together again. Keeping the shell together should allow for a good healing process to take place.

A vet visit might be valuable as the vet might be able to bind the would up neatly plus give you antibiotics to prevent infection in addition to taking an X-ray to check for more eggs inside the animal.
I fortunately have the most caring neighbours one could ask for so wouldn't even give it a thought. My CCTV is continuous and I've watched about 3hrs of footage....from when she was walking around fine to the point where we discovered her with the cracked shell. I can't find anything that might have caused this. ?. Thank you for the information and guidance. Much appreciated...??
 

Sterant

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2016
Messages
693
Location (City and/or State)
Albany, NY
Did you see this injury before she laid the egg or after? I have a large Chersina female that, after laying her first egg, had similar, but far less extreme bleeding along that same line. Now, it was NOWHERE near as bad - but was bleeding. Chersina's shells have to flex quite a bit to allow an egg to pass. I think the injury's suggested by @zovick and others are far more likely, but when I first saw this image, it did remind me of my one female after her first egg. Outside chance this happened when laying the egg. You will see that the egg is MUCH larger than the opening at the anal scutes.

And to confirm - yes....they can lay eggs without being exposed to males. If she has never been near a male, it won't be fertile, but I would incubate it anyway.
 
Last edited:

Sterant

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2016
Messages
693
Location (City and/or State)
Albany, NY
Here are pictures of the damage to both sides after she laid the egg. Again, NOWHERE near as bad as yours but reminiscent of it.
 

Attachments

  • chersina damage 1.jpg
    chersina damage 1.jpg
    786.7 KB · Views: 54
  • chersina damage 2.jpg
    chersina damage 2.jpg
    617.4 KB · Views: 52

Ray--Opo

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Oct 14, 2017
Messages
7,017
Location (City and/or State)
Palm Bay Fl
Please take to a vet. The vet that I go has a sulcata there right now. Florida Wild and Game brought it to her. It had been run over by a car, basically in the same area as yours. Damage was much worse, but the tort is just about ready to be rehomed. Maybe steristrips will help hold it together. But a vet is a must. Do not put her down. We will figure something out before you even think about that.
 

Maro2Bear

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
May 29, 2014
Messages
14,712
Location (City and/or State)
Glenn Dale, Maryland, USA
Here are pictures of the damage to both sides after she laid the egg. Again, NOWHERE near as bad as yours but reminiscent of it.

Very interesting. Although less traumatic looking than the OPs, very much the same injury. Maybe Sterant’s tortoise was more hydrated/flexible while the OPs is less hydrated = bursting at the scute during egg laying? (Always new stuff to read & learn).
 

Sterant

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2016
Messages
693
Location (City and/or State)
Albany, NY
Very interesting. Although less traumatic looking than the OPs, very much the same injury. Maybe Sterant’s tortoise was more hydrated/flexible while the OPs is less hydrated = bursting at the scute during egg laying? (Always new stuff to read & learn).
Yes - my thoughts exactly.
 

zovick

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Nov 17, 2013
Messages
3,386
Hi. Is anyone able to shed some light as to why my tortoitses shell cracked...
Is this only on one side or are both sides the same as in the photo of the right side?

Maybe it is from egg laying as Sterant said, but it is certainly the largest such disarticulation for oviposition I have ever seen. I have seen very small areas of this with blood oozing out in all 4 types of Pyxis, especially planicauda. In Pyxis, it usually only involves a single seam between two of the marginal scutes on each side and/or scutes in the plastral bridge area rather than the entire costal-marginal border as in your female.
 

Sterant

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2016
Messages
693
Location (City and/or State)
Albany, NY
Is this only on one side or are both sides the same as in the photo of the right side?

Maybe it is from egg laying as Sterant said, but it is certainly the largest such disarticulation for oviposition I have ever seen. I have seen very small areas of this with blood oozing out in all 4 types of Pyxis, especially planicauda. In Pyxis, it usually only involves a single seam between two of the marginal scutes on each side and/or scutes in the plastral bridge area rather than the entire costal-marginal border as in your female.
Agreed - it would be an exceptionally extreme case likely caused by some unusual condition or circumstance. An order of magnitude worse than the pictures I uploaded.
 

TammyJ

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Messages
7,119
Location (City and/or State)
Jamaica
Wow, it's hard to believe this could be from egg laying, but look at the size of that egg!!!
 

zovick

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Nov 17, 2013
Messages
3,386
Wow, it's hard to believe this could be from egg laying, but look at the size of that egg!!!
Yes, it is a large egg, but be aware that the eggs have rather flexible shells rather than being hard like a chicken egg or some other tortoise eggs, so when they are compressed via the female's contractions, the eggs can elongate (to a certain point) in order to be laid rather than cracking.
 

Ray--Opo

Well-Known Member
5 Year Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Oct 14, 2017
Messages
7,017
Location (City and/or State)
Palm Bay Fl
Yes, it is a large egg, but be aware that the eggs have rather flexible shells rather than being hard like a chicken egg or some other tortoise eggs, so when they are compressed via the female's contractions, the eggs can elongate (to a certain point) in order to be laid rather than cracking.
Could she be egg bound?
 

zovick

Well-Known Member
10 Year Member!
Joined
Nov 17, 2013
Messages
3,386
Could she be egg bound?
It seems rather doubtful since she laid the one egg. Usually Chersina females lay only one egg per clutch, although occasionally larger females may lay two eggs in a clutch. Since the single egg was laid, one would assume that if there were a second one, that one would have been laid as well.

An X-ray of the tortoise would determine the presence or absence of another egg with certainty, though.
 

TortugaNiko

New Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2021
Messages
7
Location (City and/or State)
California
Does she get enough calcium intake? Torts lay an unfertilized egg when they are old enough to mate. It’s like a test run. A vet should have a look.
 

maureen allenza

Member
5 Year Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Messages
86
I have cleaned the bleeding area and bandaged it up. And hour later she laid and egg .. Not sure how as she has no mate...?.
When I was doing research on torts before I got mine, I learned that females can hold eggs in themselves for years. Some are unfertilized. Or some female torts did mate and the fertilized egg was in them for a long time.
 

Yvonne G

Old Timer
TFO Admin
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
93,405
Location (City and/or State)
Clovis, CA
Ok. . . from reading what the experienced members have had to say here's what I'm taking away from this problem:

First to address the original poster's concern that the tortoise has not been with a male - Where do you think all those unfertilized chicken eggs at the store come from? Some egg laying females can lay eggs when not ever been in the presence of a male. Chickens do it and so do some female tortoises.

Next, I have to admit the thought did cross my mind when the original poster said an egg came soon after the discovery of the split shell, that maybe the new growth seams were very new, soft and fresh, and maybe the hard straining to push out the egg ruptured the new growth seams. Then Sterant posted that this very thing happened to a tortoise he knew only not as bad. Quite interesting that it was the same species of tortoise.

So, far as I'm concerened, mystery solved. All that's left to do is care for the tortoise and help her heal.
 

New Posts

Top