Help with chronic wall surfer

[MythrilDelight]

Hello!
Bubba has always been a chronic wall surfer. I think it was mostly due to never having a proper enclosure until we took him on.

He has a massive tank now and I’ve put rocks and toys and other enrichment items in it. I think he’s a supermale and is quite aggressive since returning from a boarder. He used to frequently hump multiple rocks in his enclosure but now no longer humps the rocks. He just wall surfs all day. He currently has 2 powersuns for his basking area and an Acadia 10.0 uv tube light for light source.

He’s recently started surfing to the point where he’s flipping himself. I’ve tried attaching fencing along the wall to prevent him from climbing but he just manages to hook his arms in and get stuck. I’ve attached barriers in the corners to prevent him from climbing and barriers along the top to prevent him from hooking his arms along the top but nothing is working.

I was thinking of making like one of those roller balls that you can make to prevent cats from jumping fences but I’m not sure how well it would work. Something that would prevent him from being able to grip anything to climb.

Any suggestions on ways to improve his tank or even ways to prevent excessive wall surfing?

 

[semicookie]

Many years ago I adopted a "wall surfer" tortoise that was previously kept in a backyard without any kind of plants or decorations in his enclosure. We provided a heavily structured enclosure where we made sure that he could not walk along the walls (big stones, plants, wooden barriers). We avoided round rocks and decorations as he would jump them until he had hemorrhages on his shell. We tried to block his sight to short distances so he could not form any type of path. He stopped eating for some weeks, was very nervous but then calmed down. He got adopted into a group of 7 females and now has other things to do than wall surfing.

 

[MythrilDelight]

Many years ago I adopted a "wall surfer" tortoise that was previously kept in a backyard without any kind of plants or decorations in his enclosure. We provided a heavily structured enclosure where we made sure that he could not walk along the walls (big stones, plants, wooden barriers). We avoided round rocks and decorations as he would jump them until he had hemorrhages on his shell. We tried to block his sight to short distances so he could not form any type of path. He stopped eating for some weeks, was very nervous but then calmed down. He got adopted into a group of 7 females and now has other things to do than wall surfing.

What kind of rocks did you end up using? Like landscaping rocks? I’m wondering if his abrasion is due to his wall surfing. I had put up a chunky lattice shaped wall around the perimeter of his tank. In hindsight, it probably made it easier to surf and flip himself. I thought about putting up straight bamboo fencing around the perimeter but wouldn’t be surprised if he climbed that too. I will break up the view in his tanks as well and hope that helps.

I definitely didn’t realize how much of a vertical climber he would end up being lol.

 

[semicookie]

I did it with an outdoor enclosure so it was easier. Made the walls over 30cm high so he was unable to climb them.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hello!
Bubba has always been a chronic wall surfer. I think it was mostly due to never having a proper enclosure until we took him on.

He has a massive tank now and I’ve put rocks and toys and other enrichment items in it. I think he’s a supermale and is quite aggressive since returning from a boarder. He used to frequently hump multiple rocks in his enclosure but now no longer humps the rocks. He just wall surfs all day. He currently has 2 powersuns for his basking area and an Acadia 10.0 uv tube light for light source.

He’s recently started surfing to the point where he’s flipping himself. I’ve tried attaching fencing along the wall to prevent him from climbing but he just manages to hook his arms in and get stuck. I’ve attached barriers in the corners to prevent him from climbing and barriers along the top to prevent him from hooking his arms along the top but nothing is working.

I was thinking of making like one of those roller balls that you can make to prevent cats from jumping fences but I’m not sure how well it would work. Something that would prevent him from being able to grip anything to climb.

Any suggestions on ways to improve his tank or even ways to prevent excessive wall surfing?

Hello!
Can you tell more about his tank (maybe post some photos and tell what is the tank size)? What are temperatures there (basking area, ambient)?

I'm also concerned about two Powersun lamps + Reptisun 10.0 too. All three lamps output UV and since it's additive, so it can be too harsh.

 

[Tom]

Hello!
Bubba has always been a chronic wall surfer. I think it was mostly due to never having a proper enclosure until we took him on.

He has a massive tank now and I’ve put rocks and toys and other enrichment items in it. I think he’s a supermale and is quite aggressive since returning from a boarder. He used to frequently hump multiple rocks in his enclosure but now no longer humps the rocks. He just wall surfs all day. He currently has 2 powersuns for his basking area and an Acadia 10.0 uv tube light for light source.

He’s recently started surfing to the point where he’s flipping himself. I’ve tried attaching fencing along the wall to prevent him from climbing but he just manages to hook his arms in and get stuck. I’ve attached barriers in the corners to prevent him from climbing and barriers along the top to prevent him from hooking his arms along the top but nothing is working.

I was thinking of making like one of those roller balls that you can make to prevent cats from jumping fences but I’m not sure how well it would work. Something that would prevent him from being able to grip anything to climb.

Any suggestions on ways to improve his tank or even ways to prevent excessive wall surfing?

I see two problems and Alex mentioned them both.
1. No tank is large enough, unless it's some sort of 1000 pound custom made job. This species needs around 4x8 feet for an indoor enclosure. (122x244cm). When they are confined to small areas, wall surfing is common.
2. You are using the wrong bulbs. Powersuns are not reliable. Sometimes too much UV, other times no UV at all, and they are always emitting desiccating light. They just shouldn't be used over tortoises. You want a regular incandescent flood bulb for basking. Arcadia sells these. So does Flukers. You UV tube is great, but as Alex explained, you should only be using one UV source and it should only be on for a few hours mid day. You should be using other light sources, like LED bulbs of one sort or another, for lots of ambient light.

All that UV is probably burning his eyeballs and making him restless.

Here is a breakdown of the four heating and lighting essentials:

1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. In most cases you'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night. Some people in colder climates or with larger enclosures will need multiple CHEs or RHPs to spread out enough heat.
3. Ambient light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in LED bulb types are both fine.
4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In colder climates, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12% HO bulbs from Arcadia. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html A good UV bulb only needs to run for 2-3 hours mid day. You need the basking bulb and the ambient lighting to be on at least 12 hours a day.

More info here:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[MythrilDelight]

I see two problems and Alex mentioned them both.
1. No tank is large enough, unless it's some sort of 1000 pound custom made job. This species needs around 4x8 feet for an indoor enclosure. (122x244cm). When they are confined to small areas, wall surfing is common.
2. You are using the wrong bulbs. Powersuns are not reliable. Sometimes too much UV, other times no UV at all, and they are always emitting desiccating light. They just shouldn't be used over tortoises. You want a regular incandescent flood bulb for basking. Arcadia sells these. So does Flukers. You UV tube is great, but as Alex explained, you should only be using one UV source and it should only be on for a few hours mid day. You should be using other light sources, like LED bulbs of one sort or another, for lots of ambient light.

All that UV is probably burning his eyeballs and making him restless.

Here is a breakdown of the four heating and lighting essentials:

1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. In most cases you'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night. Some people in colder climates or with larger enclosures will need multiple CHEs or RHPs to spread out enough heat.
3. Ambient light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in LED bulb types are both fine.
4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In colder climates, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12% HO bulbs from Arcadia. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html A good UV bulb only needs to run for 2-3 hours mid day. You need the basking bulb and the ambient lighting to be on at least 12 hours a day.

More info here:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

Ok! I do have the Arcadia basking bulbs. I will remove the powersuns and replace with those and see how he does.

My little guy is a Hermann’s. He’s typically outside but we have been insanely stormy lately.

 

[MythrilDelight]

Hello!
Can you tell more about his tank (maybe post some photos and tell what is the tank size)? What are temperatures there (basking area, ambient)?

I'm also concerned about two Powersun lamps + Reptisun 10.0 too. All three lamps output UV and since it's additive, so it can be too harsh.

His tank is custom built and 6’x3’ as that’s was all we had room for. The dark end has a heat panel on a thermostat set to 80-82°, it has his hide. The other side is the basking side and it now has the 2 basking bulbs and the temp was 95-105°.

He has the Arcadia 10.0 uv tube light that I believe is the T5. His fits in his water dish completely and I have another dish with Timothy hay as I was told his aggression was likely food related. We use coco mulch for his substrate. The tile is used for his food dish because he tends to get substrate in his food. He has rocks to hump but hasn’t done any of that since his return from the boarder at the beginning of the month.

I’m wondering if the hide may be too large and whether I need to break up the view?

 

[MythrilDelight]

The powersuns may have been the problem. He stopped surfing the second I put the basking lights in. I have hope

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

The powersuns may have been the problem. He stopped surfing the second I put the basking lights in. I have hope

Yay! I hope so too.
1. You can lower ambient temperature on the cool side to mid 60s. Excess heat can also stress him out. As Tom said, they handle 60F at night just fine (but with high humidity it's better to keep them a bit warmer).

2. Can you check the label on Arcadia tube? Also, fixture doesn't look like Arcadia or ZooMed - can you post a close-up photo? What distance is between substrate and the lamp?

3. 6x3 ft. can be fine if it's short-term housing during the storms or sudden cold spells. I would add some live plants (you can hang pots from enclosure walls or horizontal bars to save walking space).

4. I'm not sure if he's gonna like timothy hay, this species isn't a grass and hay eater (however, in native range they seasonally consume wilting and more stemmy summer plants).

5. You can bury the hide in substrate a bit - so he will feel more snug and secure.

 

[MythrilDelight]

Yay! I hope so too.
1. You can lower ambient temperature on the cool side to mid 60s. Excess heat can also stress him out. As Tom said, they handle 60F at night just fine (but with high humidity it's better to keep them a bit warmer).

2. Can you check the label on Arcadia tube? Also, fixture doesn't look like Arcadia or ZooMed - can you post a close-up photo? What distance is between substrate and the lamp?

4. I'm not sure if he's gonna like timothy hay, this species isn't a grass and hay eater (however, in native range they seasonally consume wilting and more stemmy summer plants).

5. You can bury the hide in substrate a bit - so he will feel more snug and secure.

1. Lowered the temps on the cool side. It’s 65-70 degrees.

2. I checked the label and it is in fact a ZooMed hood (my Arcadia is over my skink’s tank) with a reptisun 10.0. It’s 12” away from substrate.

4. He doesn’t like the Timothy hay. He will munch on it every now and then but ultimately just scatters it.

5. I will definitely bury his hide better

So far, the surfing has been minimal and his mood is slightly better.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

1. Lowered the temps on the cool side. It’s 65-70 degrees.

2. I checked the label and it is in fact a ZooMed hood (my Arcadia is over my skink’s tank) with a reptisun 10.0. It’s 12” away from substrate.

4. He doesn’t like the Timothy hay. He will munch on it every now and then but ultimately just scatters it.

5. I will definitely bury his hide better

So far, the surfing has been minimal and his mood is slightly better.

Can you check if the UVB lamp is really T5? If so, 12" is too low for the 10.0 tube (aim for 17-18"). Also, you may consider repositioning it: moving closer to the basking area and rotating it 90 degrees to be in parallel with long enclosure wall.

 

[MythrilDelight]

Can you check if the UVB lamp is really T5? If so, 12" is too low for the 10.0 tube (aim for 17-18"). Also, you may consider repositioning it: moving closer to the basking area and rotating it 90 degrees to be in parallel with long enclosure wall.

I just checked it. It’s a T8.
I will see what I can do to mount it length wise. I got the hood new from a friend whose pet passed before he could use it. It didn’t come with mounting equipment so I will have to figure out a way to mount it lengthwise

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

I just checked it. It’s a T8.
I will see what I can do to mount it length wise. I got the hood new from a friend whose pet passed before he could use it. It didn’t come with mounting equipment so I will have to figure out a way to mount it lengthwise

For a T8 lamp 12" is a safe distance. Maybe you can fix the lamp to one wall and the bar in the middle (using the same brackets you have now). ZooMed fixtures are supposed to be placed on top of terrarium mesh screen and have always been a pain to mount any other way.