Hermann not eating

VictorJames

New Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2021
Messages
3
Location (City and/or State)
London
Hi all,

I have a year old Hermann tortoise since March and he has always been a good eater. He has not eaten for a few days and was only eating very little in the few days before that. He has an indoor tortoise table with soil substrate and a variety of surfaces/areas to explore. It is quite large for his size and has a basking spot under a combined mercury lamp which is approx 33 degrees C. His cool end is around 26.

He has fresh water and edible plants in the soil (weeds, viola, geraniums, begonia etc). I offer him dandelions, clover, geraniums, rose petals, kale, cress, lambs lettuce and he is taking anything. I even resorted to the pellets I got (which he used to eat sometimes) and he wont even eat those. On the face of it he looks healthy, bright eyes, moving well etc.

He also has an outside enclosure with similar plants, hiding spaces, basking spot etc, although the weather is turning so he wont be able to go out a huge amount soon.

He seems distracted by constantly trying to climb the walls of the tortoise table (which is wood, no glass). I know Hermanns can be quite keen on climbing so I have given him different areas to explore his climbing instinct but he still tries to climb the walls of the table.

Any thoughts welcome, I have read all the advice on the forums and have tried to cover all the possible reasons for this behaviour.

Thanks

VJ
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,220
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Hi all,

I have a year old Hermann tortoise since March and he has always been a good eater. He has not eaten for a few days and was only eating very little in the few days before that. He has an indoor tortoise table with soil substrate and a variety of surfaces/areas to explore. It is quite large for his size and has a basking spot under a combined mercury lamp which is approx 33 degrees C. His cool end is around 26.

He has fresh water and edible plants in the soil (weeds, viola, geraniums, begonia etc). I offer him dandelions, clover, geraniums, rose petals, kale, cress, lambs lettuce and he is taking anything. I even resorted to the pellets I got (which he used to eat sometimes) and he wont even eat those. On the face of it he looks healthy, bright eyes, moving well etc.

He also has an outside enclosure with similar plants, hiding spaces, basking spot etc, although the weather is turning so he wont be able to go out a huge amount soon.

He seems distracted by constantly trying to climb the walls of the tortoise table (which is wood, no glass). I know Hermanns can be quite keen on climbing so I have given him different areas to explore his climbing instinct but he still tries to climb the walls of the table.

Any thoughts welcome, I have read all the advice on the forums and have tried to cover all the possible reasons for this behaviour.

Thanks

VJ
1. Basking temp needs to be 36-37C and it needs to be on for at least 12 hours, but preferably 13 hours a day. This is especially important as we move into fall if you don't intend to hibernate him.
2. Soil should never be used as tortoise substrate. Its made from composted yard waste and there is no way to know what is in it. Could be something toxic.
3. Where did all the flowers in the soil come from? If purchased at a garden center, they are likely laden with systemic pesticides. They could be poisoning your tortoise.
4. MVBs shouldn't be used over tortoises. They desiccate the carapace and cause pyramiding.
5. It is difficult to maintain the correct conditions for a baby in an open topped enclosure. A large viv will serve you much better, especially going into winter.
6. Most people use enclosures that are far too small. What size is your enclosure?

Here is the current and correct care info. Questions are welcome:
 

VictorJames

New Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2021
Messages
3
Location (City and/or State)
London
1. Basking temp needs to be 36-37C and it needs to be on for at least 12 hours, but preferably 13 hours a day. This is especially important as we move into fall if you don't intend to hibernate him.
This is currently on for 12 hours
2. Soil should never be used as tortoise substrate. Its made from composted yard waste and there is no way to know what is in it. Could be something toxic.
This is sterilised top soil (sterilised by heat). I appreciate there is a lot of debate about substrate and I have read lots of conflicting advice. He was living on grass pellets when I got him and read they are no good. Topsoil mixed with sand also a problem due to possible impaction from sand. Hemp no good as too sharp. Same with bark.
3. Where did all the flowers in the soil come from? If purchased at a garden center, they are likely laden with systemic pesticides. They could be poisoning your tortoise.
These were grown from seed by me, so no fertiliser used. He hasnt eaten them in any case.
4. MVBs shouldn't be used over tortoises. They desiccate the carapace and cause pyramiding.
This is the first I have heard this - a number of breeders told me this was the way to go. I will look into alternatives. But it doesnt sound like it is the cause of his not eating, more a problem for the long term health of the shell.
5. It is difficult to maintain the correct conditions for a baby in an open topped enclosure. A large viv will serve you much better, especially going into winter.
Humidity is around 75% and I keep it moist daily.
6. Most people use enclosures that are far too small. What size is your enclosure?
3ft x 4ft which is twice the size of his previous enclosure, so I thought he would enjoy the extra room, he is only 1.
Here is the current and correct care info. Questions are welcome:
I forgot to say I also soak him daily.

Thanks

VJ
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
63,220
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
This is currently on for 12 hours

This is sterilised top soil (sterilised by heat). I appreciate there is a lot of debate about substrate and I have read lots of conflicting advice. He was living on grass pellets when I got him and read they are no good. Topsoil mixed with sand also a problem due to possible impaction from sand. Hemp no good as too sharp. Same with bark.

These were grown from seed by me, so no fertiliser used. He hasnt eaten them in any case.

This is the first I have heard this - a number of breeders told me this was the way to go. I will look into alternatives. But it doesnt sound like it is the cause of his not eating, more a problem for the long term health of the shell.

Humidity is around 75% and I keep it moist daily.

3ft x 4ft which is twice the size of his previous enclosure, so I thought he would enjoy the extra room, he is only 1.

I forgot to say I also soak him daily.

Thanks

VJ
1. Move the bulb to 13 hours a day and try to warm the temps. They can feel the days getting shorter and the temp dropping. This makes them want to prepare their bodies for hibernation, which means they stop eating to empty out their gut even though its still warm and they are still active. This is my best guess about why your tortoise isn't eating. This is very common this time of year.
2. Orchid bark is not too sharp. Been using it for decades with many species from hatchlings to adults. You are reading and listening to the wrong info. The problem with soil is not bacteria, so "sterile" soil is irrelevant. The problem is the potential composition of the soil. Do you know what those particles are? No one does, and no one can. Bought-in-a-bag soil is made from composted yard waste. It could be toxic plants like azaleas or oleander, or it could be lawn clippings recently sprayed with pesticides or other toxins. There is no way to know, and the manufacturers do not intend for tortoises to live on it. I agree that grass pellets, sand, and hemp are not good substrate either.
3. That is good news on the flowers. Fertilizers are fine, as long as it is plain fertilizer with no additives, and as long as the tortoise doesn't have direct access to the actual fertilizer products, like those granules for example.
4. Most breeders have all the old wrong info. Same for vets, pet shops, and "reptile experts". You have now found the best source for correct tortoise care information. Our forum here is made of tens of thousands of members from all over the globe sharing info, experience, and experimentation results. I used to use MVBs too, before I learned of the problems with them.
5. There is no way humidity in an open topped enclosure is 75%. Not unless the whole room is that humid all the time. I suspect your gauge is off or in the wrong place. Are you using the stick-on dial type? Those are neither accurate nor reliable.
6. That is a good size enclosure for a one year old.
7. Daily soaks are excellent!
 

VictorJames

New Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2021
Messages
3
Location (City and/or State)
London
1. Move the bulb to 13 hours a day and try to warm the temps. They can feel the days getting shorter and the temp dropping. This makes them want to prepare their bodies for hibernation, which means they stop eating to empty out their gut even though its still warm and they are still active. This is my best guess about why your tortoise isn't eating. This is very common this time of year.
Double checked my temp under lamp and it is actually 36 so that is good. Will add an hour though.
2. Orchid bark is not too sharp. Been using it for decades with many species from hatchlings to adults. You are reading and listening to the wrong info. The problem with soil is not bacteria, so "sterile" soil is irrelevant. The problem is the potential composition of the soil. Do you know what those particles are? No one does, and no one can. Bought-in-a-bag soil is made from composted yard waste. It could be toxic plants like azaleas or oleander, or it could be lawn clippings recently sprayed with pesticides or other toxins. There is no way to know, and the manufacturers do not intend for tortoises to live on it. I agree that grass pellets, sand, and hemp are not good substrate either.
This kind of thing? https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00TOBNT4U/?tag=
3. That is good news on the flowers. Fertilizers are fine, as long as it is plain fertilizer with no additives, and as long as the tortoise doesn't have direct access to the actual fertilizer products, like those granules for example.
4. Most breeders have all the old wrong info. Same for vets, pet shops, and "reptile experts". You have now found the best source for correct tortoise care information. Our forum here is made of tens of thousands of members from all over the globe sharing info, experience, and experimentation results. I used to use MVBs too, before I learned of the problems with them.
Got it, will look at other lamps and double check on here before buying.
5. There is no way humidity in an open topped enclosure is 75%. Not unless the whole room is that humid all the time. I suspect your gauge is off or in the wrong place. Are you using the stick-on dial type? Those are neither accurate nor reliable.
I know you dont like the topsoil but it does keep the humidity quite well. Please see the pic which is the reading just above the soil. A bit under what I said but still 71%.
6. That is a good size enclosure for a one year old.
7. Daily soaks are excellent!
 

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