Hundreds of Gnats

[John J]

Hello! My tortoise vivarium is infested with gnats, there has to be several hundred at LEAST. I've been using sticky traps and sticky boards but to no avail, their numbers are just too great and they produce to quick. I read that you have to bake the substrate or let it dry for several days? The enclosure has been super dry for a week now and it doesn't seem to be helping, and baking nearly 40sq ft of Coco coir seems like the substrate will be out of commission for a while, thus my tortoise won't be able to be in his habitat. Is changing it all truly the only option? My enclosure has been super dry for a bit to try and get them to stop producing but at this time I need to start dampening the enclosure for humidity purposes, any suggestions?

 

[John J]

I'm thinking if I replace the substrate but keep it moist won't that just be the same conducive environment for gnats? There has to be away to keep them away without irritating the tortoise with chemicals and smells from strong sticky traps.

 

[Alice Sulcatia]

Ugh, gnats! *looks around at all the yellow stickies in the pots

Nr. 1 Do you know whats the root cause?
The only time I got those suckers was from Miracle-Gro soil, but they never went to live in turtle coco coir. Have you potted new plants lately? Bought new plants? If so - quarantine! Get them away from the enclosure. And treat them with Mosquito Bits, the brew works on fungus gnats!
Nr. 2 Get rid of the infested substrate and clean the enclosure thoroughly. I use a diluted vinegar cleaning solution for all turtle clean-ups. Replace with a new substrate. Or, what I used for a while was a "Reptile Carpet" - Terrarium Coconut Fiber Substrate Liner. It could give you a break on gnats, too, but you'll have to do extra spraying to keep it humid.
Nr. 3 Set homemade traps. Like Apple-cider vinegar: small bowl with apple-cider vinegar + a few drops dish soap; cover with clingfilm pierced with tiny holes (optional). Place nearby, and anywhere they could be coming from.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes!

 

[John J]

Ugh, gnats! *looks around at all the yellow stickies in the pots

Nr. 1 Do you know whats the root cause?
The only time I got those suckers was from Miracle-Gro soil, but they never went to live in turtle coco coir. Have you potted new plants lately? Bought new plants? If so - quarantine! Get them away from the enclosure. And treat them with Mosquito Bits, the brew works on fungus gnats!
Nr. 2 Get rid of the infested substrate and clean the enclosure thoroughly. I use a diluted vinegar cleaning solution for all turtle clean-ups. Replace with a new substrate. Or, what I used for a while was a "Reptile Carpet" - Terrarium Coconut Fiber Substrate Liner. It could give you a break on gnats, too, but you'll have to do extra spraying to keep it humid.
Nr. 3 Set homemade traps. Like Apple-cider vinegar: small bowl with apple-cider vinegar + a few drops dish soap; cover with clingfilm pierced with tiny holes (optional). Place nearby, and anywhere they could be coming from.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes!

There is a very thing layer of soil under the 5 inch depth of Coco coir, perhaps that's not drying enough down there. But all the coir has dried for almost 2 weeks and the buggers are still in there and multiplying. The plants have been in the for several months now, but a few ants did come from those plants so it's possible the gnats did too. I think they're fungus gnats, I'm not quite sure. There is no visual mold or fungus in the substrate but maybe some micro degrading stuff that the gnats like? Idk, but are those home remedies okay for the torts? I read about the apple cider vinegar and all of that but was worried about the aroma. I thought the root cause of the gnats was maybe the coir being moist for so long, perhaps I over watered but the top layer dries incredibly fast so I am in a weird in-between place lol I got 10 blocks of Coco coir and I'll change out all the substrate this weekend and employ some home remedy tactics and I'll keep yah posted!

 

[Alice Sulcatia]

There is a very thing layer of soil under the 5 inch depth of Coco coir, perhaps that's not drying enough down there. But all the coir has dried for almost 2 weeks and the buggers are still in there and multiplying. The plants have been in the for several months now, but a few ants did come from those plants so it's possible the gnats did too. I think they're fungus gnats, I'm not quite sure. There is no visual mold or fungus in the substrate but maybe some micro degrading stuff that the gnats like? Idk, but are those home remedies okay for the torts? I read about the apple cider vinegar and all of that but was worried about the aroma. I thought the root cause of the gnats was maybe the coir being moist for so long, perhaps I over watered but the top layer dries incredibly fast so I am in a weird in-between place lol I got 10 blocks of Coco coir and I'll change out all the substrate this weekend and employ some home remedy tactics and I'll keep yah posted!

Soil, Noir, humidity, food, and turtle waste - sound like a good germination spot for unwelcome guests. And while I am no expert on Desert tortoise enclosures, I don`t think soil should be used in a tank. Let's ask @Tom and @Yvonne G for their advice.

Bringing new plants home is always a tricky thing; you never know what you'll bring back. I always try to quarantine the plants, so others don`t get pests or diseases.

Regarding home remedies, keep them outside the enclosure! It's not a cocktail for your little guy! Hahaha

 

[John J]

Soil, Noir, humidity, food, and turtle waste - sound like a good germination spot for unwelcome guests. And while I am no expert on Desert tortoise enclosures, I don`t think soil should be used in a tank. Let's ask @Tom and @Yvonne G for their advice.

Bringing new plants home is always a tricky thing; you never know what you'll bring back. I always try to quarantine the plants, so others don`t get pests or diseases.

Regarding home remedies, keep them outside the enclosure! It's not a cocktail for your little guy! Hahaha

Yeah Tom said no soil and I had put soil in it before I new that a few months ago, but as it was a very thin layer I thought it might not bother the torts because they don't dig down to it but it seems to be bringing in other issues so I'll be having only coir in there by this weekend. I'll start quarantining new plants from now on thank you. This is only in my females enclosure too. The male and female have everything the same. But they're enclosed vivariums so I'm thinking the gnats just haven't found and multiplied in my boy's enclosure yet. They're still young so I'm speculating about their genders of course lol so even with the bowl of home remedy stuff on a block out of reach of the tortoise, still put these bowls on the outside of the vivarium, not on the inside? Hopefully the gnats will come out and into the bowl. I see them most active and in "tornado" fashion when the lights first come on and by the time I've spent at least an hour catching the majority, they disappear and the enclosed space heats up and becomes brighter. I'm assuming they burrow into the substrate.

 

[Alice Sulcatia]

Yeah Tom said no soil and I had put soil in it before I new that a few months ago, but as it was a very thin layer I thought it might not bother the torts because they don't dig down to it but it seems to be bringing in other issues so I'll be having only coir in there by this weekend. I'll start quarantining new plants from now on thank you. This is only in my females enclosure too. The male and female have everything the same. But they're enclosed vivariums so I'm thinking the gnats just haven't found and multiplied in my boy's enclosure yet. They're still young so I'm speculating about their genders of course lol so even with the bowl of home remedy stuff on a block out of reach of the tortoise, still put these bowls on the outside of the vivarium, not on the inside? Hopefully the gnats will come out and into the bowl. I see them most active and in "tornado" fashion when the lights first come on and by the time I've spent at least an hour catching the majority, they disappear and the enclosed space heats up and becomes brighter. I'm assuming they burrow into the substrate.

If you want a quick break from substrate, get a coco carpet. I don't think gants will be interested in that, and something new for the torts for a week or two? Otherwise, get into spring cleaning mode, get rid of all the old stuff, and bring in the new coconut coir. Makes sense that the closed enclosure was safe. However, I would put the remedies outside of them too, just to be safe. One sucker can make hundreds, and better be safe than sorry when it comes to pest control. I put my concoctions in sauce cups and brûlée dishes, small, easy and everywhere except in the enclosures lol

 

[John J]

If you want a quick break from substrate, get a coco carpet. I don't think gants will be interested in that, and something new for the torts for a week or two? Otherwise, get into spring cleaning mode, get rid of all the old stuff, and bring in the new coconut coir. Makes sense that the closed enclosure was safe. However, I would put the remedies outside of them too, just to be safe. One sucker can make hundreds, and better be safe than sorry when it comes to pest control. I put my concoctions in sauce cups and brûlée dishes, small, easy and everywhere except in the enclosures lol

Thank you very much again for responding to both of my threads I will implement all of this stuff straight away! I did get the blocks of coir so I will be expanding those and replacing the old stuff, thanks a bunch! Hopefully I develop a system here to keep these gnats away for good!

 

[Alice Sulcatia]

Thank you very much again for responding to both of my threads I will implement all of this stuff straight away! I did get the blocks of coir so I will be expanding those and replacing the old stuff, thanks a bunch! Hopefully I develop a system here to keep these gnats away for good!

Happy to help, John Good luck, and keep us posted on how the gnat warfare and tails are doing!

 

[Tom]

Hello! My tortoise vivarium is infested with gnats, there has to be several hundred at LEAST. I've been using sticky traps and sticky boards but to no avail, their numbers are just too great and they produce to quick. I read that you have to bake the substrate or let it dry for several days? The enclosure has been super dry for a week now and it doesn't seem to be helping, and baking nearly 40sq ft of Coco coir seems like the substrate will be out of commission for a while, thus my tortoise won't be able to be in his habitat. Is changing it all truly the only option? My enclosure has been super dry for a bit to try and get them to stop producing but at this time I need to start dampening the enclosure for humidity purposes, any suggestions?

Here is what you need to know:
1. These aren't gnats. They are called Phorid flies.
2. They are harmless detrivores and they are eating detritus in your enclosure.
3. While they can certainly be introduced with live plants and such, they will come from the surrounding environment even if your substrate and everything else was free of them upon introduction.
4. Our warm damp enclosures make the perfect area for them to live and breed.
5. They typically have a population bloom at first, and then reach more tolerable levels over time.
6. Because of #3 above, you can spend all the time, effort, and money you want trying to get rid of them, and they will just keep coming back. You can keep them at bay for a time if you boil, bake, freeze, or replace all of your substrate and get rid of all live plants that have damp soil in them. You can have two batches of substrate. Have one batch in the enclosure, and when the flies get bad, put the current batch in the freezer and use the other batch. You can rotate through the two batches as often as is needed, leaving one batch in the freezer when not in use in the enclosure.

 

[John J]

Here is what you need to know:
1. These aren't gnats. They are called Phorid flies.
2. They are harmless detrivores and they are eating detritus in your enclosure.
3. While they can certainly be introduced with live plants and such, they will come from the surrounding environment even if your substrate and everything else was free of them upon introduction.
4. Our warm damp enclosures make the perfect area for them to live and breed.
5. They typically have a population bloom at first, and then reach more tolerable levels over time.
6. Because of #3 above, you can spend all the time, effort, and money you want trying to get rid of them, and they will just keep coming back. You can keep them at bay for a time if you boil, bake, freeze, or replace all of your substrate and get rid of all live plants that have damp soil in them. You can have two batches of substrate. Have one batch in the enclosure, and when the flies get bad, put the current batch in the freezer and use the other batch. You can rotate through the two batches as often as is needed, leaving one batch in the freezer when not in use in the enclosure.

This makes sense but my only problem with the substrate freezing and baking method is that I have 32 square ft of coir at 5 inch depth, about 10 blocks in the enclosure. I don't have the room to cycle the substrate. Do you know if any of the watering methods are safe for tortoises such as 3% hydrogen peroxide to water ratio or any of the larvae eating bacteria that you water into the coir? It wouldn't be an issue if there weren't literally hundreds, crawling all over the floor like a rotten corpse and filling up several sticky boards in like 15 minutes. The outbreak is huge, and I'm worried that they are crawling all over my tortoise while she sleeps l, I would hate that if that were me!

 

[Tom]

This makes sense but my only problem with the substrate freezing and baking method is that I have 32 square ft of coir at 5 inch depth, about 10 blocks in the enclosure. I don't have the room to cycle the substrate. Do you know if any of the watering methods are safe for tortoises such as 3% hydrogen peroxide to water ratio or any of the larvae eating bacteria that you water into the coir? It wouldn't be an issue if there weren't literally hundreds, crawling all over the floor like a rotten corpse and filling up several sticky boards in like 15 minutes. The outbreak is huge, and I'm worried that they are crawling all over my tortoise while she sleeps l, I would hate that if that were me!

I have not found any satisfactory method for getting rid of them, other than what was outlined above.

With an infestation as heavy as what you describe, killing them would leave their dead bodies rotting, and that would simply attract more of them to clean up the mess. It sounds like you need to replace your substrate. That will temporarily remove them all. The sticky traps used pro-actively should help to slow their return. Soaking the tortoise daily and spot cleaning thoroughly will reduce the amount of "food" for them and also slow their return.

Potted plants are the prefect breeding grounds for these flies too, so removing those will help, but that also removes the benefit of the plants. I use clipped grape vines and mulberry tree branches in some of my indoor enclosures to help with this. The tortoises get the benefits of hiding in and nibbling on the leaves, but no soil for flies to colonize. I replace the branches every two or three days, as needed.

 

[John J]

I have not found any satisfactory method for getting rid of them, other than what was outlined above.

With an infestation as heavy as what you describe, killing them would leave their dead bodies rotting, and that would simply attract more of them to clean up the mess. It sounds like you need to replace your substrate. That will temporarily remove them all. The sticky traps used pro-actively should help to slow their return. Soaking the tortoise daily and spot cleaning thoroughly will reduce the amount of "food" for them and also slow their return.

Potted plants are the prefect breeding grounds for these flies too, so removing those will help, but that also removes the benefit of the plants. I use clipped grape vines and mulberry tree branches in some of my indoor enclosures to help with this. The tortoises get the benefits of hiding in and nibbling on the leaves, but no soil for flies to colonize. I replace the branches every two or three days, as needed.

I will have to do some thorough searching for where they're coming from because both big enclosed vivariums are in the garage and there are no plants in there except inside the enclosure. I've never had these bugs before until now. The strange thing is too I haven't watered the enclosure for two weeks or even longer now in an attempt to dry everything out and ide say it's been dry for a time now and I noticed the population exploding and still growing even when things are super dry. There has to be a way to target the larvae stage in the substrate or it's a loosing battle. I can't let it be like this because the infestation is so incredibly bad, if only you could see it. Don't you have very large enclosures too? You freeze all of your substrate? I don't have any deep freezers so maybe that's my issue

 

[Tom]

I will have to do some thorough searching for where they're coming from because both big enclosed vivariums are in the garage and there are no plants in there except inside the enclosure. I've never had these bugs before until now. The strange thing is too I haven't watered the enclosure for two weeks or even longer now in an attempt to dry everything out and ide say it's been dry for a time now and I noticed the population exploding and still growing even when things are super dry. There has to be a way to target the larvae stage in the substrate or it's a loosing battle. I can't let it be like this because the infestation is so incredibly bad, if only you could see it. Don't you have very large enclosures too? You freeze all of your substrate? I don't have any deep freezers so maybe that's my issue

I do have lots of large indoor enclosures and I don't do anything. Their numbers stay low naturally. I also have spiders in my reptile room that eat them.

It sounds like you are having an unusually high umber of them, to removing your substrate and replacing it will get you out of this current problem, and then spot cleaning and soaking daily will keep the waste down and hamper their return.

I can save you time on your researching where they are coming from: They come from the world around us. You didn't "introduce" them by making some mistake. They are ever present all around us, and they move in to do their work when they find a suitable environment. If we make our tortoise enclosures suitable for a tortoise, then it is suitable for the flies too. They are detrivores. Less detritus will mean less flies.

 

[John J]

I have not found any satisfactory method for getting rid of them, other than what was outlined above.

With an infestation as heavy as what you describe, killing them would leave their dead bodies rotting, and that would simply attract more of them to clean up the mess. It sounds like you need to replace your substrate. That will temporarily remove them all. The sticky traps used pro-actively should help to slow their return. Soaking the tortoise daily and spot cleaning thoroughly will reduce the amount of "food" for them and also slow their return.

Potted plants are the prefect breeding grounds for these flies too, so removing those will help, but that also removes the benefit of the plants. I use clipped grape vines and mulberry tree branches in some of my indoor enclosures to help with this. The tortoises get the benefits of hiding in and nibbling on the leaves, but no soil for flies to colonize. I replace the branches every two or three days, as needed.

Also, the tortoises never poop I'm there enclosure they always go outside. They only pee in there when there inside the terra Cotta dish eating food, so idk where this food is coming from for the photos flies.

 

[John J]

I do have lots of large indoor enclosures and I don't do anything. Their numbers stay low naturally. I also have spiders in my reptile room that eat them.

It sounds like you are having an unusually high umber of them, to removing your substrate and replacing it will get you out of this current problem, and then spot cleaning and soaking daily will keep the waste down and hamper their return.

I can save you time on your researching where they are coming from: They come from the world around us. You didn't "introduce" them by making some mistake. They are ever present all around us, and they move in to do their work when they find a suitable environment. If we make our tortoise enclosures suitable for a tortoise, then it is suitable for the flies too. They are detrivores. Less detritus will mean less flies.

I want to try and water the coir with larvae killing agents but I'm afraid that for example hydrogen peroxide mixed in the water is not good for the torts. Or that apple cider vinegar has strong pungent smells the torts don't like and a dozen sticky traps as futile as that is brings on a really bad smell too. If these options aren't safe than I truly have to figure something out here because I'm replacing all the substrate tomorrow in one enclosure, 10 blocks. The other enclosure has never had the flies but is now getting like 5 or 6 compared to the other which has I would say literally thousands.

 

[Tom]

I want to try and water the coir with larvae killing agents but I'm afraid that for example hydrogen peroxide mixed in the water is not good for the torts. Or that apple cider vinegar has strong pungent smells the torts don't like and a dozen sticky traps as futile as that is brings on a really bad smell too. If these options aren't safe than I truly have to figure something out here because I'm replacing all the substrate tomorrow in one enclosure, 10 blocks. The other enclosure has never had the flies but is now getting like 5 or 6 compared to the other which has I would say literally thousands.

There is some sort of unusual problem with your one enclosure. If you remove that substrate, you will be removing whatever the unusual problem is, and then you can start over from scratch. Killing them in place and then leaving them to rot doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

Coir can be purchased in bulk in 10 pound blocks. I use two or three blocks a months in my reptile room. I think you are using the smaller brick types. One 10 pound block does a 4 foot enclosure with about 3-4 inches of substrate. You can find these big blocks at a local garden center or on Amazon. Much cheaper than pet store options.

 

[John J]

There is some sort of unusual problem with your one enclosure. If you remove that substrate, you will be removing whatever the unusual problem is, and then you can start over from scratch. Killing them in place and then leaving them to rot doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

Coir can be purchased in bulk in 10 pound blocks. I use two or three blocks a months in my reptile room. I think you are using the smaller brick types. One 10 pound block does a 4 foot enclosure with about 3-4 inches of substrate. You can find these big blocks at a local garden center or on Amazon. Much cheaper than pet store options.

Okay I'll look for these bigger blocks and replace the substrate tomorrow, I'll soak all the blocks break em down and throw em in. If you don't mind whenever you have time, can you share a picture of your desert tortoise enclosures or indoor enclosures of any species so I can get an idea of how your running your setup if that's okay? And what are your thoughts on adding pill pugs to eat the larvae in the substrate over time? What garden center have you found those big blocks? None around me has big ones in fact, they're selling small one for 30 bucks! Cheapest I can find is a garden center out in Long Beach that sells em for 8.50 a block which is out of the way for me but I go anyways because I must haha.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Is it possible that the enclosure it self is rotting and thus providing them a good environment?

 

[Alice Sulcatia]

Is it possible that the enclosure it self is rotting and thus providing them a good environment?

Now that's a thought!