Interview with Vicki Hale

[goReptiles]

Check out my interview with Vicki with The Tortoise Yard.

http://www.cheloniancare.com/vicki-hale/

She's such an awesome lady to work with!

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

Great article...I particularily agree with her about sulcata breeding!

 

[dmarcus]

Very good article...

 

[terryo]

This was a fantastic article. I've always admired her hatchling pictures and posts on other forums. I especially loved her views on Sulcata's.

"Do you have any tips or suggestions for someone thinking about breeding their turtles/tortoises?
I want to ask, plead, and beg people NOT to breed African Spurred Tortoises, also known as the Sulcata Tortoise. This large species tortoise is too large for most people to keep as a pet and they end up in tortoise rescues all over the country. There are so many of them in rescues that many rescue organizations are full and having to turn them away. There just aren’t enough homes to be found for them anymore. Thousands of new Sulcata hatchlings hit the market every year so thousand more adults will hit the rescues. If someone wants to have a Sulcata and is able to properly house it, they should adopt one from a rescue and not buy one.

If someone wants to hobby breed, they need to do it responsibly and not breed a species (like Sulcata and Red Eared Sliders) that is already over bred in the US."

 

[Tom]

This anti-sulcata breeding band wagon is a lot of hog wash. We have debated this many times here. Rescues are NOT overflowing with them. The rescues that have them are either selling them for a profit, or they make it exceedingly invasive, expensive and difficult to adopt one. They want people to open their homes for inspections, sign contracts saying the tortoise can be repossessed anytime they want, and pay a bunch of money for the tortoise. Most people just go buy one for the same or less money with nobody giving them a bunch of crapola to deal with. Two or three a year show up in the shelter near me and they are adopted the minute they are available with people squabbling over who was there first. I sell every one I breed and could easily sell a thousand more because of the demand for them. I certainly don't think we need to be encouraging more people to breed them, but this overpopulation problem and the comparisons to red eared sliders are pure fantasy. I know a rescue operator that places around six a year and never seems to keep them for more than a couple of weeks.

By all means lets encourage breeding of Russians, all other Testudo, Pancakes, Burmese stars, Burmese mountain tortoises, and so many others over sulcatas, but let's not overstate the "problem" that does not exist with sulcatas.

 

[wellington]

Unfortunately Tom, I disagree to a point. In your area, there may not be an over abundance in the rescues. In my area and my surrounding states, there is. Not only rescues, but Craigslist, always has people needing to rehome their now too big sulcata tortoise. I don't know what happens to them, but their ads have a long run time. I'm sure most end up in a rescue or worse

Now for the article, loved it. Thanks for sharing and I must agree about the over abundance of Sullies, at least in my surrounding states.

 

[DesertGrandma]

Thanks Whitney. I enjoyed the article and also the photos on her website.

 

[kanalomele]

Great article! Thanks for posting here. I don't get over to the other site very often.

 

[terryo]

I don't know about any other state, but here in NY the rescues that I know of have had so many in their care from people who had no place to keep them in the cold months here. The only thing the rescues here ask of their adoptions, is that they are to go to a home in a warm climate, and they would not be used for breeding. I don't think that's asking too much. They don't ask for money, only to pay for shipping. I know that this year they had so many brought to them that they had no room for more and they still have some that weren't adopted. Vicki Hale knows this as she is affiliated with the rescues here, and knows how many are taken in. I'm sure the rescue's in the warmer states don't get as many as we do here, and it is most likely easier to adopt them out in those states. I can't imagine why anyone would not believe this. I have no reason to lie, and have seen this myself, and so has Vicki Hale. She is a responsible breeder and I think her interview was spoken with honesty.

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

Tom, the sulcata issue is much the same as the Burmese python issue...too many folks buy them as cute babies without realizing what keeping an adult entails!

Of the Burms I've assisted in the rescue and re-homing of, none have been under 9', with the most common size is just over 12', and many of these haven't been handled much or at all, since they were 6-8 feet long, and so sometimes are no longer tame. A non-tame snake of those dimensions are VERY difficult to re-home...few people are willing to even consider the tamest giant, and one that strikes at you is NEVER getting a new home!

By the same token, a 100+ pound tortoise that can go right through a privacy fence and leaves "calling cards" that a Great Dane would be impressed by is not the reality that a lot of impulse buyers recognize at the time of purchase.

And, in both cases, remarkably few sellers give the potential buyers the 411, either.

 

[Tom]

Even the most well known cold state rescues only have a dozen or so. And there are lots of people in Southern states that would be happy to take them, but they aren't willing to meet the terms of these rescues.

AGAIN, the rescues that are stuck with a bunch of them are the rescues that require all sorts of forms, personal info, contracts, home inspections and fees. People who just give them away have no problem finding homes, even in the Northern states. The ones on craigslist that sit are usually small disfigured, horribly pyramided and verging on MBD. Put up a smooth free sulcata on craigslist in NY and see how long it sits. It won't.

People seem to think there are thousands of unwanted tortoises out there in the world that need homes. It is simply not the case. This is a country of over three hundred million people. How many sulcatas are there in rescues, true rescues, that need homes? A few dozen in the whole country? All of those could go to a few guys in AZ or SoCal, if someone wants to pay for the shipping.

Isn't someone going to bring up the "rescue" in AZ with 300 of them crowded into two small enclosures? You know, the "rescue" that sells adults at a premium, the nicer they look, the more they cost? You know the same "rescue" that sells all the babies for $50 a piece to anyone with cash in their hand?

I'm going to be arguing this one alone because all the people who are in the industry and know better have left the forum due to this sort of incorrect emotion based non-sense.

All I am saying is that this "problem" is greatly exaggerated. Of course there are people in Northern states that made an uneducated bad decision when they chose a pet. That does not mean the sky is falling and we are all going to be overrun with sulcatas overflowing by the millions from tortoise rescues.

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

I “feel" the better statement would be to encourage people to stop buying tortoises of any kind from places such as Petco, or Petsmart and instead seek out the private breeder that has a vested interest in their animals instead of seeing them as inventory. These breeders tend to want the best for the young they produce, and offer good modern, husbandry information for the good of the tortoise and the success of the the new owner.

 

[tortadise]

Even the most well known cold state rescues only have a dozen or so. And there are lots of people in Southern states that would be happy to take them, but they aren't willing to meet the terms of these rescues.

AGAIN, the rescues that are stuck with a bunch of them are the rescues that require all sorts of forms, personal info, contracts, home inspections and fees. People who just give them away have no problem finding homes, even in the Northern states. The ones on craigslist that sit are usually small disfigured, horribly pyramided and verging on MBD. Put up a smooth free sulcata on craigslist in NY and see how long it sits. It won't.

People seem to think there are thousands of unwanted tortoises out there in the world that need homes. It is simply not the case. This is a country of over three hundred million people. How many sulcatas are there in rescues, true rescues, that need homes? A few dozen in the whole country? All of those could go to a few guys in AZ or SoCal, if someone wants to pay for the shipping.

Isn't someone going to bring up the "rescue" in AZ with 300 of them crowded into two small enclosures? You know, the "rescue" that sells adults at a premium, the nicer they look, the more they cost? You know the same "rescue" that sells all the babies for $50 a piece to anyone with cash in their hand?

I'm going to be arguing this one alone because all the people who are in the industry and know better have left the forum due to this sort of incorrect emotion based non-sense.

All I am saying is that this "problem" is greatly exaggerated. Of course there are people in Northern states that made an uneducated bad decision when they chose a pet. That does not mean the sky is falling and we are all going to be overrun with sulcatas overflowing by the millions from tortoise rescues.

I am in accord with you Tom. I take in a given 3-15 sulcatas every year. Most of them actually come from the northern states. Finnegan the latest one I got, was driven down form Wisconsin by her owner. She told me the exact thing. She investigated me and called around. Did her due diligence of what will happen to her tortoise she loved for 6 years. Well most rescues up there were same thing as you stated. The almost impossible to acquire the adoption. So she drove almost 900 miles to bring her to me. I never have issues adopting them out. Even with MBD or cosmetic issues. The propaganda behind many statements is untrue of "overflowing" rescues. I do believe we as a tortoise community and hobbyist have to try and help each other out with un-homed animals. But how much do we help when an organization substantiates a difficulty in placing animals.

 

[wellington]

I don't feel there are hundreds or millions in rescues. The problem with the rescues around me at least, is that a few, are an over abundance. Most don't have the space or means to house very many of them at or near adult size. I do understand that most rescues rules, of any specie of animal, are way to stringent. They also need to require a fee, or too many animals end up in science labs or pit fights Yes, some want to make more money off the animal, then they should, but are they true rescues, in the sense that most of us think of? However, most work off of almost nothing. If they were more willing to ship an animal, that would help them to be able to rehome more, unfortunately, most won't.