keeping water clean on partial water part of tank

[theelectraco]

Is the the filter media made of foam or is it made of material similar to the bio bag? Bio bags have filter media that is tightly woven and catches more debris, sometimes canisters have foam inserts that are more 'porous' and they don't filter /block debris as well as they should.

 

[wellington]

I may be wrong here, but three toed can't swim. They look like they are swimming, as they make a swimming motion, but are also able to touch the bottom, but if they could not touch and were in deep waters they would not be able to swim. Im not sure if what you are seeing is enjoyment of swimming or more of a panic, I want out. Again, I may be wrong and someone that ownes three toed can confirm. I housed a couple for just over a day, but didn't try to see if they could swim, as they aren't aquatic turtles.

If you are keeping the set up you have, I think you will need a better filter. The one you have doesn't look powerful enough to pull the water from as low as it is, up to the top of the tank and into the filter. It is doing it, but working harder then it should and therefore not pumping as much water through the filter as it is suppose to. If you can try placing the filter in a way that you can shorten the hoses and not have to pump to the filter so far, it may help.

Thank you....
There are rocks below so that they can touch the bottom, they are never in danger. I tried taking the rocks out the other night by advice, thinking it would help to keep my tank cleaner, but then I could see that he was panicking so I put them right back and now they are swimming around like crazy. It is so fun to watch. I totally know what you are saying.... They can't actually "swim"... But they still really enjoy it. Like if a person can't swim good but likes to dog paddle around.... That's the best way to describe it. I adopted these turtles last fall.... they have always enjoyed the water so i have never thought to change it. i posted quite a few pics when I got them, no one said anything but positive things about the turtles and the tank too... i don't want to change it, they have probably had water to "swim" in their whole lives.... Does that make sense?

I totally understand. Could you take the rocks out and put one or two larger rocks in, just for helping them get out. It might help the to keep it cleaner too. I just think your pump/filter is not made to draw water up that high. Pumps can only pump water so high up.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

I don't think you need to take the rocks out for cleaning. Leave them in and just use the siphon.

It has carbon (chemical), bio balls (biological) but what about filter pads (mechanical) ?

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Is the the filter media made of foam or is it made of material similar to the bio bag? Bio bags have filter media that is tightly woven and catches more debris, sometimes canisters have foam inserts that are more 'porous' and they don't filter /block debris as well as they should.

Like he said..

Bio bags are different than filter pads most canister filters use.

 

[theelectraco]

Honestly, if it were me, I would find a litter box that fits in the little pond part u have and just use that and empty the water 2x daily.you may need to rig some type of landing so your turtle can get out with ease.

 

[PumpkinPie]

Is the the filter media made of foam or is it made of material similar to the bio bag? Bio bags have filter media that is tightly woven and catches more debris, sometimes canisters have foam inserts that are more 'porous' and they don't filter /block debris as well as they should.

I'm not 100% clear on what a media filter is exactly, but I'm pretty positive it's more on that lines. I used to have a bio-bag, but wanted to upgrade so I bought this one. It's a canister filter with ceramic and carbon media inserts on one side, and a sponge filter on the other side, and 2 tubes that go onto the top of tank, one bring water into the filter and the the other sending it back in like a little tiny waterfall.

---

I may be wrong here, but three toed can't swim. They look like they are swimming, as they make a swimming motion, but are also able to touch the bottom, but if they could not touch and were in deep waters they would not be able to swim. Im not sure if what you are seeing is enjoyment of swimming or more of a panic, I want out. Again, I may be wrong and someone that ownes three toed can confirm. I housed a couple for just over a day, but didn't try to see if they could swim, as they aren't aquatic turtles.

If you are keeping the set up you have, I think you will need a better filter. The one you have doesn't look powerful enough to pull the water from as low as it is, up to the top of the tank and into the filter. It is doing it, but working harder then it should and therefore not pumping as much water through the filter as it is suppose to. If you can try placing the filter in a way that you can shorten the hoses and not have to pump to the filter so far, it may help.

Thank you....
There are rocks below so that they can touch the bottom, they are never in danger. I tried taking the rocks out the other night by advice, thinking it would help to keep my tank cleaner, but then I could see that he was panicking so I put them right back and now they are swimming around like crazy. It is so fun to watch. I totally know what you are saying.... They can't actually "swim"... But they still really enjoy it. Like if a person can't swim good but likes to dog paddle around.... That's the best way to describe it. I adopted these turtles last fall.... they have always enjoyed the water so i have never thought to change it. i posted quite a few pics when I got them, no one said anything but positive things about the turtles and the tank too... i don't want to change it, they have probably had water to "swim" in their whole lives.... Does that make sense?

I totally understand. Could you take the rocks out and put one or two larger rocks in, just for helping them get out. It might help the to keep it cleaner too. I just think your pump/filter is not made to draw water up that high. Pumps can only pump water so high up.

That's what my boyfriend suggested!!!! If you really think its worth a shot I will give it a try!

 

[wellington]

See if you can find on the box of the filter or in the pamphlet on it, the height the pump will push the water. An actual turtle tank as one end with a low side/half glass. This allows the water level to be low so as to have a basking spot. The filter fits onto the half glass, so it is low to the water level. I tried to get a pic and it won't load for some reason. If you look here https://www.google.com/search?q=tur...hl=en&client=safari#biv=i|7;d|ZvOmuQdi6TwvFM:
Hopefully you will see what I am talking about. This turtle tank filter does not need a big lifting value. If that filter were placed on the top rim of the tank, to pump the water out of only half of the tank, it either would to work at all or would not work to its full capacity, thus leaving a dirty tank, as the gallons per hour is now deminished.

 

[PumpkinPie]

See if you can find on the box of the filter or in the pamphlet on it, the height the pump will push the water. An actual turtle tank as one end with a low side/half glass. This allows the water level to be low so as to have a basking spot. The filter fits onto the half glass, so it is low to the water level. I tried to get a pic and it won't load for some reason. If you look here https://www.google.com/search?q=tur...hl=en&client=safari#biv=i|7;d|ZvOmuQdi6TwvFM:
Hopefully you will see what I am talking about. This turtle tank filter does not need a big lifting value. If that filter were placed on the top rim of the tank, to pump the water out of only half of the tank, it either would to work at all or would not work to its full capacity, thus leaving a dirty tank, as the gallons per hour is now deminished.

Here is a photo of the filter from their website.... It's set up almost exactly like I have mine. It even comes with little tabletop grips.... ?? ??
Maybe it's defective? It's clearly pushing water in & out, put the pads aren't dirty at all compared to my old bio bags.... On the suction tube that brings the water in.... I constantly clean the little black box at the end to be sure it's not plugged

 

[theelectraco]

Where did you purchase it?

 

[PumpkinPie]

Where did you purchase it?

Petco... The $80 filter we use for our fish aquarium that we got there works wonderfully for our 55 gal tank......

 

[PumpkinPie]

See if you can find on the box of the filter or in the pamphlet on it, the height the pump will push the water. An actual turtle tank as one end with a low side/half glass. This allows the water level to be low so as to have a basking spot. The filter fits onto the half glass, so it is low to the water level. I tried to get a pic and it won't load for some reason. If you look here https://www.google.com/search?q=tur...hl=en&client=safari#biv=i|7;d|ZvOmuQdi6TwvFM:
Hopefully you will see what I am talking about. This turtle tank filter does not need a big lifting value. If that filter were placed on the top rim of the tank, to pump the water out of only half of the tank, it either would to work at all or would not work to its full capacity, thus leaving a dirty tank, as the gallons per hour is now deminished.

Here is a photo of the filter from their website.... It's set up almost exactly like I have mine. It even comes with little tabletop grips.... ?? ??
Maybe it's defective? It's clearly pushing water in & out, put the pads aren't dirty at all compared to my old bio bags.... On the suction tube that brings the water in.... I constantly clean the little black box at the end to be sure it's not plugged

I found the box in the pet closet... it says right here on the front, ZooMed Turtle Clean 501 For Aquatic turtle or amphibian tanks up to 30 gal, easy priming external filter for aquatic turtle tanks, vivariums, box turtle pools amphibian set ups or turtle tubs.

I mean..... I thought it said it right there!

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I don't think you need to take the rocks out for cleaning. Leave them in and just use the siphon.


It has carbon (chemical), bio balls (biological) but what about filter pads (mechanical) ?

---

Is the the filter media made of foam or is it made of material similar to the bio bag? Bio bags have filter media that is tightly woven and catches more debris, sometimes canisters have foam inserts that are more 'porous' and they don't filter /block debris as well as they should.

Like he said..

Bio bags are different than filter pads most canister filters use.

---

To team G'..... I will do what I have to do to take care of my babies, but if I use a siphon, it will drain the water out in an instant.... kind of eliminates the point of even having a filter in the first place.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

Hmm.

Well I disagree with Wellington about the filter not being able to function based on the water level (no offense barb ) I have used more canister pumps than I can count. My job before kids was Curator of large salt water exhibits and I'm not new to pumps.

If your filter isn't "working" there is another reason it isn't doing its job. Not the water level. The pump needs all 3 media to work together. Chemical, Biological, Mechanical.

Biological- The ceramic pieces in the filter you are referring to shouldn't be cleaned when you clean the pump. They hold the bacteria that aids in biological filtration. If you clean them you mess up the nitrogen cycle. While these are turtles not fish, I still think a balanced nitrogen cycle will aid in keeping the water clean and balanced.

When cleaning your filter these pieces should sit in a bowl of the tank water. Don't let them dry out and dont wash them.

Chemical- Activated carbon is like a sponge. You can't rinse out what it collects and once it is "full" you must discard it and replace it with fresh new carbon.

Mechanical- The pads are the only part of the filter you actually clean. It can be rinsed and cleaned and occasionally as needed replaced.

Sorry if any of this comes across and common knowledge, I'm just trying to cover the basics in hopes to help you ID the problem and have better success.

 

[PumpkinPie]

Hmm.

Well I disagree with Wellington about the filter not being able to function based on the water level (no offense barb ) I have used more canister pumps than I can count. My job before kids was Curator of large salt water exhibits and I'm not new to pumps.

If your filter isn't "working" there is another reason it isn't doing its job. Not the water level. The pump needs all 3 media to work together. Chemical, Biological, Mechanical.

Biological- The ceramic pieces in the filter you are referring to shouldn't be cleaned when you clean the pump. They hold the bacteria that aids in biological filtration. If you clean them you mess up the nitrogen cycle. While these are turtles not fish, I still think a balanced nitrogen cycle will aid in keeping the water clean and balanced.

When cleaning your filter these pieces should sit in a bowl of the tank water. Don't let them dry out and dont wash them.

Chemical- Activated carbon is like a sponge. You can't rinse out what it collects and once it is "full" you must discard it and replace it with fresh new carbon.

Mechanical- The pads are the only part of the filter you actually clean. It can be rinsed and cleaned and occasionally as needed replaced.

Sorry if any of this comes across and common knowledge, I'm just trying to cover the basics in hopes to help you ID the problem and have better success.

Don't be sorry, and thank you. Obviously I am a beginner with tons of questions. I have done all of these things right, my boyfriend and I have 2 fishtanks, so he has helped me put this filter together, and he mentioned not to clean the media parts (except the foam of course) but now even he is at a loss. I have tripple checked, it has been put together correctly. the only thing that I can think is that when I put the thing together, the instructions said to rinse the carbon filter under water and it ran black. Is that normal? I felt alarmed, and looked on the instructions and it didn't mention anything about that.
Ummm.... other than that, I am about to find my receipt and take this stupid thing back. I am so frustrated seeing them swim in the mucky water. I have been doing more than partial water changes every day. I guess I will go back to the bio-bag internal filter and just continue to change it often like I used to. I thought this new filter would be such a great idea, it's quieter, gives them more "swimming room", thought it would keep the water cleaner for longer, but it's just not working out. At least I know the other one will work for small water levels.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

Yes, it is normal for activated carbon to run black under the water before hand.

Just a reminder, the low water level is not the problem with this filter.

At this point, the only thing I can recommend is giving it some time. Biological takes time to build up. If you have 30 days to return it, give it 20. And hold off on daily water changes just in the beginning. Give the bacteria some time to build up.

If at the 20 day mark you are still unsatisfied (or you can't wait that long) then return it.

At least you tried.

Sorry I don't have a "quick fix" answer for you.

 

[Jd3]

The primary problem in turtle water is mechanical. More water makes it easier to keep clear. Larger volume of water=more dilution.

These filters are over priced and not very powerful.

Take a pic of the media inside the filter. It runs only 79 gph at peak performance(0 head height and no media). While that might be over 20x the volume of your tank, it is still weak for a filter that the turtles come in and out of substrate.

My best advice would be 1) more water. I know this isn't an easy task.
2) larger diameter rocks. Allows turtles to stand on but won't catch as much poop.
3) put the spray bar under the water. By having it cascade into it, it loses a lot of flow from surface impact. As such it doesn't push stuff around as much. This means the intake doesn't get to suck up the debris before it settles.
4) allowing a transition area is helpful. Small stones or a ramp.
5) lots and lots of water changes. For such a small volume, it might be easier to find something that can be lifted out. For my ca wood turtle I use paint trays(thick plastic) that I have a few of. I can lift out and replace. Rinse and repeat the next day. I found it much easier. A filter so small will clog up a lot once it starts clogging.


To get best flow, the top of canister should be below the surface of the water. Consider the forces at play here. Canister filters normally return water to the tank and siphon brings water to the canister. If the canister top is above the water surface that can't work. Also, since the filter has to suck the water up over the tank and then back up over the tank to return. More resistance to flow.

Running these setups drilled from the bottom or side works well, but most aquariums cannot be drilled on bottom

I'd bet you're getting less than half the advertised rate of flow.

 

[PumpkinPie]

Yes, it is normal for activated carbon to run black under the water before hand.

Just a reminder, the low water level is not the problem with this filter.

At this point, the only thing I can recommend is giving it some time. Biological takes time to build up. If you have 30 days to return it, give it 20. And hold off on daily water changes just in the beginning. Give the bacteria some time to build up.

If at the 20 day mark you are still unsatisfied (or you can't wait that long) then return it.

At least you tried.

Sorry I don't have a "quick fix" answer for you.

Ok, well thanks for your tips. I just moved the filter down to a small side table so it's below the waterline now, some people said that could help.
Thanks a lot, I appreciate it very much

 

[PumpkinPie]

Well everyone, first I want to thank you guys for all of your advice. I really appreciate all of you helping me out. I felt like crying this morning for a time there!! I could not stand it, and I went and returned the filter. from all of your guys' words, I felt like the filter was not a good choice for my set up. I bought the same kind that I used to have, because I know that it will work. It's the bio-bag kind, and it is already cleaning up the water fast. I read on a website that these types are better for smaller pools of water.

The only reason I tried getting the other filter was because it actually said it could be used for box turtles as well right there on the front of the box, so I thought I was doing an upgrade!! lol!! When I adopted these guys they had the tiny stones in the water side like for aquariums, I quickly got larger stones, but I will take your guys' advice and get even bigger ones asap.

I was looking at the Nutrafin Biological Turtle Habitat Cleaner when I was there, has anyone ever used that? It says that it cleans turtle aquatic habitats and gravel, reduces and controls odor, and reduces organic waste. Any thoughts?

 

[Jd3]

Well everyone, first I want to thank you guys for all of your advice. I really appreciate all of you helping me out. I felt like crying this morning for a time there!! I could not stand it, and I went and returned the filter. from all of your guys' words, I felt like the filter was not a good choice for my set up. I bought the same kind that I used to have, because I know that it will work. It's the bio-bag kind, and it is already cleaning up the water fast. I read on a website that these types are better for smaller pools of water.

The only reason I tried getting the other filter was because it actually said it could be used for box turtles as well right there on the front of the box, so I thought I was doing an upgrade!! lol!! When I adopted these guys they had the tiny stones in the water side like for aquariums, I quickly got larger stones, but I will take your guys' advice and get even bigger ones asap.

I was looking at the Nutrafin Biological Turtle Habitat Cleaner when I was there, has anyone ever used that? It says that it cleans turtle aquatic habitats and gravel, reduces and controls odor, and reduces organic waste. Any thoughts?

Water changes are much better than the nutrafin. If they could sell magic in a bottle I wouldn't have to drive past a sewage treatment plant with the windows up.

Particularly... Non refrigerated bacteria in a bottle with a shelf life of several years with nothing to eat in the bottle... What are the odds?