Lentals?????

[Mark Tenerife]

Hi my friend grows lentals sprouts that grow fast and look as though the would be good for Freda my little Russian tourtouse. I'm not sure if it is safe for her to eat. She is very picky and seems to adore broccoli but won't eat the pellets and will just have a bite of the other vegetables I feed her. She sometimes eats hibiscus flowers and I do give her a mix of things she didn't eat peas either. Any advice please. Mark Tenerife

 

[Pearly]

Hey Mark, if you are talking about this same thing we here call "lentil", let's hold off till some of our experts chime in. It seems I had read somewhere that the legumes/legume sprouts were not good for them, but might be wrong. I'll definitely follow your thread to hear about this one.

 

[Mark Tenerife]

Hi Pearly
I will follow your advice. I'm a little bit concerned because she only seems to eat the broccoli. I have found a brilliant thread on here with photos of plants and some grow here really well. At the moment Freda is still in here temporary home (a rabbit hutch with a bedroom/shelter) but it's on wheels so she is in the garden most of the day. I'm not sure how to tell if a tourtouse is happy. I think she is. I love their thoughtful look. Hope to get more advice soon. Bye for now. M Tenerife

 

[Pearly]

Freda needs a lot more variety. Broccoli is good fir human kids but not the best for "the only choices". Can you get some Mazuri over there? Or any other brand of grazing tort commercial foods? If you could, we'll walk you through slowly introducing some good stuff to her.

 

[Mark Tenerife]

Hi Pearly
It is really difficult here to buy products that are usually available in mainland Europe and the UK but there are lots of succulent plants that grow here. She eats every day (quite a lot) I have also tried a mix called Trixie Flowers mix but she always goes for the Broccoli. She is in the garden in the day and she has Broccoli, hibiscus flowers and some jade/money plant in her feeding area last night I put peas in but she won't touch them. She won't go near the tourtouse pellets. She seems fine but I agree she has to eat a mix of food I like chocolate brownie ice cream but can't live on it

 

[Mark Tenerife]

Oh just to add I have just looked up Mazuri on the Internet. We can't get it here but it looks simular to the pellets I have made by JBL it is a vegetable and herbal mix for tourtouse it is a German company they do all kinds of reptile and fish foods. The shop feeds this to the tourtouse in the shop with chopped carrots but Freda will not eat it.

 

[Mark Tenerife]

Pearly you are so helpful I have just read Broccoli is bad for them. I will NOT give her any today I will put green beans out. Like I said I'm on a small island and the names for everything are Spanish it will be easier when I have her outside enclosure built and can plant things for her to graze on. I have a large raised border that I could have put he in for a few hours to explore and dig but I have used fertiliser pellets on there about 6 months ago and I don't want her getting poisoned!!!!!! Roll on when the builder can get the enclosure sorted he is finishing off a pond for me at the moment so poor Freda is out in the cage in semi shade it is about 80 today that's around 27 that is our average temperature

 

[RosemaryDW]

Hi Mark,

Vegetables that aren't leafy are not going to be good for Freda, other than in occasional small amounts. Not broccoli, not green beans, not peas, not carrots. A little is okay and what she has eaten already doesn't mean she will be unwell, but you do want to wean her off those foods as soon as you can. Lentils are in the legume family and, like peas, should be fed sparingly. Legumes are high in protein, which are not appropriate for her diet.

I hope someone who is a pellet expert can give you better help than I can on your brand; if you can post the nutritional content for us, an expert can tell you how well it meets her needs. If you are ordering foods from Germany, you might look for foods made by Agrob, another company that sells foods for various animals. I have read good things about their Pre Alpin Testudo mixes, both original and fiber. I see both available from a German seller: https://www.pferdefutter.de/. It is also available from a seller in the U.K. that is popular with tortoise owners, Shelled Warriors: http://www.shelledwarriorsshop.co.uk/. They sell tortoise seed mixes in addition to the pellets, if you are looking for something to grow yourself.

Does your friend have access to radish or chia seeds, or can you get those at a nursery/plant store? They are both easy to grow and are good tortoise foods. Radishes in particular grow very fast, it would not be long before you had full leaves to feed her.

If people around you grow any kind of squash or cucumber, the leaves and stems are safe to feed. Both are easy to start on your own, even better if you can get one started at the nursery. One plant is more than enough for a small Russian.

There are grape vines in the Canary Islands (I know this because I like one of the wines from there!) but I don't know how common they are. If you can get any, grape leaves are excellent tortoise food.

I don't know what kinds of shops are available to you there. Are there large grocery stores, vegetable shops or stands? Stores that sell seeds? That would help us narrow foods down. Foods that are available in U.S. grocery stores that are good choices include turnip, radish, and carrot tops (just the leaves, not the vegetable) and from the lettuce section, chicories such as endive, frisee, escarole are good ones. Argula/Rocket is another good one. Watercress or any sort of cress. Basically, most bitter or spicy lettuces are fairly good foods. Cilantro/fresh coriander is one herb that is recommended that many cultures use in food, perhaps yours as well.

When I look at some info on Tenerife, I see that poppies grow wild there; those are good foods. There is a type of cactus that grows there, a spineless opuntia. All cacti are pretty good foods, spineless opuntia is easier to manage for humans (the spines on cacti don't hurt tortoises). Different varieties of aeonium (That's the Latin name; I don't know what it is in Spanish) grow there, and they are safe to feed. I don't know if any of these grow near you, though.

Are there herbs that grow there wild? Some of those are safe. If you can get us the names (even in Spanish), we can give a little advice.

I am going to put a couple of other comments in separate posts.

 

[RosemaryDW]

Freda is out in the cage in semi shade it is about 80 today that's around 27 that is our average temperature

You might have answered this in an earlier post but is there part of the cage that is in full shade or is there some kind of hide in there she can get under? An overall temperature of 80 is okay if she can block herself out of the sun. Her shell will absorb the sun and get much hotter than eighty. That's the temp you want to check on, the top of the shell. Here we would use a laser temperature gun: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00837ZGRY/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

They aren't very expensive but I don't know if they are available to you. If you can't get an accurate temperature reading, make sure she has some good, full shade until you find a way to do so.

 

[RosemaryDW]

Tortoises are very stubborn and can get fixated to foods, especially ones they have been eating a long time. Freda may not eat any new foods you put out for some time. This is fine, she won't starve. Just make sure she has good access to water, that is more important than food.

While you are transitioning her to new foods, you can try a few different things.

Have you tried soaking the pellets, and/or mixing soaked pellets with other foods? Some tortoises go for that.

You can chop a very tiny amount of the new food, dampen it with water, and mix it in with what she will eat. Over time, you can increase the new food and decrease the old ones.

You can simply remove altogether things that aren't good for her, like broccoli. Once she gets hungry enough, she'll try something.
​

She is more stubborn than you are, so you'll have to stay strong during this period!

 

[RosemaryDW]

Oops, P.S. I meant to say in my longest point that I am sure there are some weeds that grow in your area that are fine. Some of them will be from seeds that are native to Europe and ended up where you are. They'll be good for her, if we can narrow down what they are.

I'm not sure what the best way to do that would be, however. I usually just do an internet search for "common weeds of xxx" for whatever area I'm checking. Or "wildflowers of xxx." I'll usually find a few things that are familiar to me or that are easy enough to check in the Tortoise Table database: http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/plant-database/wild-flowers/#.WN5_0JFHahA.You don't need the English names to use the database, you can search by the Latin ones, which should be included when you find something on an internet search.

 

[Markw84]

Oh just to add I have just looked up Mazuri on the Internet. We can't get it here but it looks simular to the pellets I have made by JBL it is a vegetable and herbal mix for tourtouse it is a German company they do all kinds of reptile and fish foods. The shop feeds this to the tourtouse in the shop with chopped carrots but Freda will not eat it.

Mark. Most of us do have great results with Mazuri. So just a suggestion if you are interested...
The Mazuri brand cannot be used in Europe. But the same parent company does sell the same products that are rebranded as NutraZu in Europe. the pellet most use on the forum is the 5M21 mazuri pellet. The identical pellet sold in Europe is NutraZu 50J3

 

[RosemaryDW]

One more thing, at six months, the fertilizer you put on your border has likely grown out and she can spend time there, assuming she is in a safe enclosure, you haven't used pesticides there, and there isn't anything growing in there that is bad for her.

That's a lot to assume, I know! Just wanting to cover all the basics.

 

[Mark Tenerife]

RosemaryDW and Markw84
This is such fantastic info and there is a lot to take in. I have stopped the broccoli and she is eating the hibiscus flower. I have a flower border on my boundary wall area that is a succulent and grows fast. I can grow radish and I can eat them as well.
The area I am putting aside for her has cactus in it but I was going to take them out because of the spikes. When the wall in built I will post photos of the plants there. Maybe I won't have to take everything out after all. It would be good if she could munch in the growing plants.
Would Freda know instinctively plants that are good and bad?. Nasturtiums grow fast here. I have lizards in the garden. They seem to know what to eat and are getting quite big but never come into the area I am creating for Freda.
I am going to try to print this thread when I get to the office on Monday. This advice is fantastic for me (and Freda) I don't use pesticides because I have fish ponds and can't have it blowing into the was water. Fish keeping is also way more complicated than you think.
I have so many questions but the next project it to get cress and radishes growing. I'll try carrots as well. I think they will grow here.
The enclosure is small by many people's standards about 10' long and kind of triangular but she is only small and young when she is bigger I hope to have moved to a finca (a little Canarian building with a little land) on the island we have one of the most varied microclimates I am in dessert in the South and would hope to stay in this area.
Well thanks to you both now I have to put all this into practice and learn more and more. I will try to give you the nutritional information of the pellets. OK I will post it in a moment because it's in German and Spanish but not English

 

[Mark Tenerife]

RosemaryDW and Markw84
This is such fantastic info and there is a lot to take in. I have stopped the broccoli and she is eating the hibiscus flower. I have a flower border on my boundary wall area that is a succulent and grows fast. I can grow radish and I can eat them as well.
The area I am putting aside for her has cactus in it but I was going to take them out because of the spikes. When the wall in built I will post photos of the plants there. Maybe I won't have to take everything out after all. It would be good if she could munch in the growing plants.
Would Freda know instinctively plants that are good and bad?. Nasturtiums grow fast here. I have lizards in the garden. They seem to know what to eat and are getting quite big but never come into the area I am creating for Freda.
I am going to try to print this thread when I get to the office on Monday. This advice is fantastic for me (and Freda) I don't use pesticides because I have fish ponds and can't have it blowing into the was water. Fish keeping is also way more complicated than you think.
I have so many questions but the next project it to get cress and radishes growing. I'll try carrots as well. I think they will grow here.
The enclosure is small by many people's standards about 10' long and kind of triangular but she is only small and young when she is bigger I hope to have moved to a finca (a little Canarian building with a little land) on the island we have one of the most varied microclimates I am in dessert in the South and would hope to stay in this area.
Well thanks to you both now I have to put all this into practice and learn more and more. I will try to give you the nutritional information of the pellets. OK I will post it in a moment because it's in German and Spanish but not English

OK here we go. Translated it says it is Organic Green Food For Tourtouse.
Protein Gross 12%
Raw vet I think is vegetable 4%
FAT 12%
Raw Fibres 21%
Crude Ash 11%?????
Calcium 0.85%
Phosphor 0.34%

I make that 60% so something isn't listed ?? JBL Herbil Sticks. That's the information I have. Sounds horrid no wonder she won't be eating it.

 

[Mark Tenerife]

OK here we go. Translated it says it is Organic Green Food For Tourtouse.
Protein Gross 12%
Raw vet I think is vegetable 4%
FAT 12%
Raw Fibres 21%
Crude Ash 11%?????
Calcium 0.85%
Phosphor 0.34%

I make that 60% so something isn't listed ?? JBL Herbil Sticks. That's the information I have. Sounds horrid no wonder she won't be eating it.

Hi again RosemaryDW and Markw84
Tomorrow I will be busy (thanks to you both). Off to the farmers market and garden centre to get some fresh vegetables and seeds for radishes nasturtiums carrot seeds. Need to build a planter that I can wheel about (I have the wood and brackets from a raised pond that has been replaced with a brick one. I can do carpentry but not brick work. For the tome doing it will buy some grown plants I can feed her. I have emailed the company in the UK to see if they can send over clover and dandelion seeds (we have these in the national park bet you can't just dig them up. Tonight it will be a low of 20 at 6am I think that's about 65ish it will be her first night outside. She is safe from predators and I think it maybe quite humid so good for her. She is in her hide at the moment. It's 10pm and about 70ish. I can't thank you enough now I have at least a plan of what I am aiming for. By the way it was lentils sprouts I was talking about not the actual lentils themselves. Have a good day/night and thank you both. Mark Tenerife

 

[RosemaryDW]

The area I am putting aside for her has cactus in it but I was going to take them out because of the spikes. When the wall in built I will post photos of the plants there. Maybe I won't have to take everything out after all.

Would Freda know instinctively plants that are good and bad?. Nasturtiums grow fast here.

You will get different advice on this. Your tortoise is captive bred, I think?, and used to what she was raised on in the pet shop. I don't know how that will impact her sense of food. @Tom or others who raise and feed captive bred tortoises will have better advice.

My tortoise is wild caught and has four or five years of eating a native diet that was appropriate and safe. But does she eat it because it's safe or because she's used to it? I have never seen her eat anything that is "bad" for her, more than a small bite. But she also refuses some foods that are safe, if they are unfamiliar. Of the weeds and such that grow wild in the yard, she only is interested in the ones that come from the "old" world, not the "new." She does eat one weed that is considered unsafe by some but is found in her natural habitat (bindweed) and is part of the wild tortoise diet.

She does love nasturtiums, they must be too delicious to pass up! I would definitely plant some, they are so easy to grow.

 

[RosemaryDW]

OK here we go. Translated it says it is Organic Green Food For Tourtouse.
Protein Gross 12%
Raw vet I think is vegetable 4%
FAT 12%
Raw Fibres 21%
Crude Ash 11%?????
Calcium 0.85%
Phosphor 0.34%

I make that 60% so something isn't listed ?? JBL Herbil Sticks. That's the information I have. Sounds horrid no wonder she won't be eating it.

I know nothing about pellets, hopefully @Markw84 or Tom has feedback.

 

[RosemaryDW]

Hi again RosemaryDW and Markw84
Tomorrow I will be busy (thanks to you both). Off to the farmers market and garden centre to get some fresh vegetables and seeds for radishes nasturtiums carrot seeds. Need to build a planter that I can wheel about (I have the wood and brackets from a raised pond that has been replaced with a brick one.

Russians are VERY hard on the plants on their enclosures, due to all the walking and their tremendous appetites. For smaller enclosures, some people grow plants in a few flats that they rotate in and out. Freda would chomp and mash on one, while the others grow back. I wonder if that's something you could accomodate in the planter you build?

By the way it was lentils sprouts I was talking about not the actual lentils themselves.

Yes, I know. I would not claim to be an expert here but from what I read, sprouts from "bad" foods don't seem to be recommended. Mung bean sprouts aren't recommended, and they are similar to lentils. Personally, I don't think a few would hurt her but my tortoise gets an extremely varied diet and I don't fuss about it much. I have only the one tortoise, though. I think most experts would encourage you to stay in the very safe range while you are getting her used to raw foods.

 

[RosemaryDW]

I think Freda will have a long and healthy life, with all that you are doing for her.