Light bulbs

[RogerTheTortoise]

Hey I'm redoing Rogers tank and it's a lot bigger. I was wondering what kind of lighting/bulbs I should use.

 

[byerssusan]

Well I know one not to use..The repti glo 10.0 uvb..It hurts their eyes.. There are some here who disagree but I have seen with my own eyes it does have an effect on them. Though I am still very new to owning a sulcata.. I have learned this with the help of others here..and as I said with my own eyes.

 

[tyler0912]

I agree with above comment....
I have heard good things about MVB's (Mercury Vapor Bulbs)

 

[coreyc]

I would go with a Power Sun or a Solar Glo 100 watt

 

[Xero]

Arcadia D3?

 

[Tom]

If you live in an area that does not get year round sun then mercury vapor bulbs are great. If your tortoise is going to get regular sun all winter long then flood bulbs from any hardware store are great. I like to use ceramic heating elements for night heat. I usually put the light bulbs on a 12 hour timer and the CHEs on a thermostat.

 

[Tony the tank]

I'm one of the skeptics.... About the so called blindness caused by coil bulb... I have looked high and low for any papers written or any information regarding CFB causing permanent blindness.. And I haven't found a thing..(except for an incident with a member here.. Which may have been an isolated incident do to manufacturing error)I have found a few documented recalls pertaining to MVB causing temporary blindness in reptiles...several yrs back.. But from what I understand it was a manufacturing error not a design flaw

There are few sites that talk about the proper use of UVB bulbs (they have been posted here).And regarding the flash burns suffered by excessive exposure to high UV light...

Best thing you can do is do your research..Let any UVB bulb burn in for a few hrs before placing in your enclosure.... Read up on the manufacturers recommend min and max distance(do not place the light closer than the recommended min distance..place the light directly overhead(not angled).. And invest in a UVB meter....
You may only use it a couple of times a yrs but it will pay for itself in piece of mind...Knowing you are giving your animal the correct amount of UVB....

Any UVB bulb can and will do harm if not used as recommended

 

[BrinnANDTorts]

I'm one of the skeptics.... About the so called blindness caused by coil bulb... I have looked high and low for any papers written or any information regarding CFB causing permanent blindness.. And I haven't found a thing..(except for an incident with a member here.. Which may have been an isolated incident do to manufacturing error)I have found a few documented recalls pertaining to MVB causing temporary blindness in reptiles...several yrs back.. But from what I understand it was a manufacturing error not a design flaw

There are few sites that talk about the proper use of UVB bulbs (they have been posted here).And regarding the flash burns suffered by excessive exposure to high UV light...

Best thing you can do is do your research..Let any UVB bulb burn in for a few hrs before placing in your enclosure.... Read up on the manufacturers recommend min and max distance(do not place the light closer than the recommended min distance..place the light directly overhead(not angled).. And invest in a UVB meter....
You may only use it a couple of times a yrs but it will pay for itself in piece of mind...Knowing you are giving your animal the correct amount of UVB....

Any UVB bulb can and will do harm if not used as recommended

I completely agree. Any light bulb you buy is going to come with instructions with a maximum and minimum distance you should have the light from the enclosure and what angle the light should be facing. If you put the light closer than the minimum distance your tortoise will have a good chance of getting a little too tan, or being burnt. I know this from experience unfortunately. If the light is still not heating up your enclosure enough at the minimum distance then you probably need a more powerful light. I imagine that people who are having eye problems when it comes it certain lights they are using is because they are putting the light too close to the enclosure and not at the right angle. The ReptiSun 10.0 UVB fluorescent coil bulb instructions say specifically that you must put the bulb directly overhead the enclosure, facing straight down, so that they won't be forced to stare into the light which would result in injury. and it has minimum distance for different fixtures that you put the bulb in. Average minimum distance is at least 9" after burn it, the burn in period lasts two weeks or 150 hours during the burn period the lights must be 13 inches at minimum from your tortoise. I can see why if you did not read the instructions on the proper light fixtures to use with this bulb, the burn in period, distances, and everything else why it very well might damage your eyes. Just like if you were forced to stare at the sun or the sun was moved way too close to you.

 

[Yvonne G]

Arcadia D3?

I'm not sure, but I don't think the Arcadia brand is available to us here in the U.S. But yes, that is the type of bulb to use.

---

Tony:

We tried to take a poll a few months ago when we were having so many new members with baby tortoises and bad eyes, but the poll kind of fell flat. Long story short...when the coil bulb was removed from the habitats, the babies recovered. It wasn't just the one occurrence.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I went to the site that had written results on the survey they took regarding the damaged/blind eyes on reptiles, and this was what is there now...

The 2005 Reptile Lighting Survey is now extremely outdated. Many of the lamps are no longer on sale; others have different specifications; and new products have been launched.

ALL LAMP TEST RESULTS ARE TEMPORARILY UNAVAILABLE. THIS SECTION IS BEING COMPLETELY RE-WRITTEN. (OCTOBER-NOVEMBER 2010)

So I HAD that site and Emys to stick up for me...so all I can say now is I am so pissed off I can hardly type and I am afraid I am about to use 4 letter words and call names as I feel I have just been called a liar or an idiot who can't even use a flourscent bulb correctly by 2 newbies who have baby tortoises and are new to TFO. I am 65 years old and am experienced with the husbandry involved in keeping chelonia. I know how to use a light bulb flourscent or not. I know how to follow directions and how to measure distances. I know how to set up an enclosure for tortoises. I know how to take care of sick animals. I was using light bulbs before one of those newbies was even born. To say that maybe I didn't use the bulb correctly is unconscionable to me. These 2 new keepers have no clue how to keep tortoises and yet they are doubting MY care of my animals. It is ridiculous that I have to fing defend my care and treatment of my animals. My Tony Stewart and his pen mate were seriously damaged by a coil UVB bulb. The penmate was writhing in pain and caught his neck under the edge of a hide and suffocated to death. DIED. So I have a dead tortoise and a blind one and I have to defend myself that maybe I didn't use the damn bulb correctly or maybe it was a manufacturing error. It was many manufacturing errors. MANY reptiles were blinded in that time period but because some newbie can't find anything on the Internet in writing maybe *I* am either lying or cannot use a bulb correctly. I will stop now before I say more and get in trouble with the moderators.

 

[Tony the tank]

Yvonne ..so there has been more than one permanent blinding episode.. I wasn't aware of that...I searched I couldn't find anything...But just in theory... Lets say it for argument sake it was Photokeratitis.(not an infection or a lens scratch or poor husbandry)How do we eliminate user error(failing to burn in bulb, too close, using reflector or angling a fixture ....All this would cause Photokeratitis....

I just find it hard to believe..That these very popular CFB are causing permanent blindness to reptiles...Yet there is no real documentation or reference anywhere that I can find...

But what I have found really strange is that there is quite a bit of references and documentation of MVB bulbs causing Photokeratitis in reptiles... But everyone recommends them...

 

[Yvonne G]

No, not permanent blindness. We got a rash of new members earlier in the year complaining of lethargic babies and swollen eyes. When they stopped using the bulb, the babies recovered and became more active. One of our members, Balboa, was going to do a study on what brand, type, wattage of bulb was causing the problem, but around that time, the influx of lethargic babies kind of dribbled out and we never got to do the study.

 

[BrinnANDTorts]

All I know is that now I am officially deeply concerned that my Gupta might go blind even with using the nicest bulb I thought you could use. I am using a 160 watt PowerSun Mercury Vapor Bulb by zoo med because I originally purchased a


and people said it would blind my tortoise. I didn't really see how if I used it properly but I didn't even want to consider taking that chance so I switched to the one everyone recommended the mercury vapor bulb.
All I know is that I am going to be diligent with instructions for lighting and that I will be watching my tortoise's eyes very closely no matter what bulb I use cause I officially don't trust any of them.

 

[byerssusan]

Arcadia D3?

I'm not sure, but I don't think the Arcadia brand is available to us here in the U.S. But yes, that is the type of bulb to use.

---

Tony:

We tried to take a poll a few months ago when we were having so many new members with baby tortoises and bad eyes, but the poll kind of fell flat. Long story short...when the coil bulb was removed from the habitats, the babies recovered. It wasn't just the one occurrence.

---

Well as I said I noticed a difference as soon as I turned it off. If you look at Phoenix's eyes look at how they look kinda whitish..This is when the light was on..

This one is after I took the bulb out

Again I know I am no a scientist..But I sure see a difference in her eyes.. Is it just me?

 

[Tony the tank]

Yvonne.. I gather you have kept torts for quite a while... Before these incidents did you ever use CFB..and did any of your animals suffer Photokeratitis...I have without incident

What I'm trying to say.. Is I would like to know if the bulbs in question that caused this I assume would have to be a manufacturing error not a design flaw... Because I would aestimate millions of these bulbs have been sold throughout the yrs...yet only effected a few...As a disclaimers I base this on what I have be able to research ..(basically from people here who have shared there experience)..

I also base my belief at this being a manufacturing error on two counts.. One being one of the persons here how shared her tragic experience is knowledgable so I would remove user error on her part and two as reptile/exotic keepers are somewhat of a close knit group..sharing both negative and positive experiences... Taking the last into account if it was a design flaw I would have expected to have found more negative reference to CFB....

I also want to point out..is if you research MVB there is quite a bit of information..pertaining to Photokeratitis and the manufacturer of MVB when they failed to coat the bulbs..

 

[BrinnANDTorts]

Well as I said I noticed a difference as soon as I turned it off. If you look at Phoenix's eyes look at how they look kinda whitish..This is when the light was on..

This one is after I took the bulb out

Again I know I am no a scientist..But I sure see a difference in her eyes.. Is it just me?

If u don't mine me asking , and in no way at all do I mean to offend u by saying u don't know how to set up lights, I'm simply just curious of how u have the light set up in your enclosure ? Would u post a picture ? Did u do the whole burn in thing ?
I'm just curious

 

[Tony the tank]

Byerssusan..I really can't see a difference in the pics...To me both pics make the eyes look milky... One of the first signs of Photokeratitis is the animal finds it painful to open his eyes.. Is she opening her eyes??

I am concerned about the way the eyes look milky... Are the eyes open in both pics?? could it be the flash making the eyes look that milky..if she is suffering from Photokeratitis... The darker the enclosure while healing the less painful...

Arcadia D3?

I'm not sure, but I don't think the Arcadia brand is available to us here in the U.S. But yes, that is the type of bulb to use.

---

Tony:

We tried to take a poll a few months ago when we were having so many new members with baby tortoises and bad eyes, but the poll kind of fell flat. Long story short...when the coil bulb was removed from the habitats, the babies recovered. It wasn't just the one occurrence.

---

Well as I said I noticed a difference as soon as I turned it off. If you look at Phoenix's eyes look at how they look kinda whitish..This is when the light was on..

This one is after I took the bulb out

Again I know I am no a scientist..But I sure see a difference in her eyes.. Is it just me?

---

 

[byerssusan]

Byerssusan..I really can't see a difference in the pics...To me both pics make the eyes look milky... One of the first signs of Photokeratitis is the animal finds it painful to open his eyes.. Is she opening her eyes??

I am concerned about the way the eyes look milky... Are the eyes open in both pics?? could it be the flash making the eyes look that milky..if she is suffering from Photokeratitis... The darker the enclosure while healing the less painful...

((Here is another pic see if you can tell the difference, no her eyes are shut.When they open the are shining bright ..I just noticed it when she would sleep.)))

And everyday it is getting better. As far as flash I never use the flash while taking pictures of Phoenix.

Arcadia D3?

I'm not sure, but I don't think the Arcadia brand is available to us here in the U.S. But yes, that is the type of bulb to use.

---

Tony:

We tried to take a poll a few months ago when we were having so many new members with baby tortoises and bad eyes, but the poll kind of fell flat. Long story short...when the coil bulb was removed from the habitats, the babies recovered. It wasn't just the one occurrence.

---

Well as I said I noticed a difference as soon as I turned it off. If you look at Phoenix's eyes look at how they look kinda whitish..This is when the light was on..

This one is after I took the bulb out

Again I know I am no a scientist..But I sure see a difference in her eyes.. Is it just me?

---

---

 

[Tony the tank]

If you don't see her rubbing her eyes...I would say its not a flash burn...

Byerssusan..there are so many things that can effect reptiles especially when it comes to lighting..To much UVA to little UVA...to much UVB to little UVB... To close to far... not bright enough or just a fluke... Maybe you can try the light again in about a week or two...if she becomes lathargic again then you have our answer..

But remember a baby tort needs UVB.. So don't deny her to long..

 

[byerssusan]

If you don't see her rubbing her eyes...I would say its not a flash burn...

Byerssusan..there are so many things that can effect reptiles especially when it comes to lighting..To much UVA to little UVA...to much UVB to little UVB... To close to far... not bright enough or just a fluke... Maybe you can try the light again in about a week or two...if she becomes lathargic again then you have our answer..

But remember a baby tort needs UVB.. So don't deny her to long..

Well I am not denying her..I set up an outside enclosure for her for a couple of hours a day to get sunshine until I can get the mvb bulb ..I believe that is the one everyone said is safest.