Lost brumating Ibera! Need suggestions!

[lvstorts]

Hi all,
I've had a group of Iberas for 10 years now and they brumate every year successfuly. I let them dig in their pens and after a few weeks of cold weather, I dig them up and put them in a temp controlled area for monitoring.

So my problem is I cannot find Barney! I've dug up the pen so much it looks like a battlefield. I've dug in a grid pattern, 10 inches down three seperate days now. My pen is large, 30 feet by 5 to 20 feet, kind of pie shaped. Short of getting heating seeking radar, I don't believe I'll find him. No, he cannot have gotten out.

I'm coming to the concluesion he may have to brumate in his pen. My game plan is this:
Because our freeze line in 9 inches and he can get below that level. I'll put a layer of blankets (4 blankets thick) over every square foot of the pen and try to top with leaves (I live in a dry climate, coming across that many leaves could be hard).

Any thoughts on if this will work or not? Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Yvonne G]

Geeze, Terese: That's too bad. I had a hard time finding one of my Russians this year too. But thank goodness he came up on a warm day. Except for the rain, your tortoise should be ok in the ground. Good luck with him.

 

[lvstorts]

Rain? We don't get much rain at all, 6 inches a year, mostly snow in the winter.

 

[CactusVinnie]

Hi Terese,

I see "dry climate" and "NW tortoises", so I conclude that you are maybe in Eastern WA or OR (?). Specifically where?
Considering that most pet-business iberas came from Turkey, I think that even Mediterranean ones know, as the inland Anatolia ones, how to escape cold. They will digg themselves to escape the frost coming from above. 9 inches is an average, I think- they dig more. It should not be a problem, he will be fine. If he's from inland Turkey, he will remember home !
Blankets- I think they will not be necessary.

Some will disagree with me providing moisture in designated areas because they are ‘desert’ animals. The native habitat is not a true desert and the climate experiences seasonal changes.

This quote is from your site- yes, they are NOT desert animals!! They spend much time in forests during summer heat, if forest available. They can cope with rolling, rocky prairies as well, but not deserts. I think that they will not be ok in areas under 250mm/year, but they occur even in close to 1000mm areas. In the coldest locations they prefer dry, so you are just fine.

 

[lvstorts]

Thanks for the reply...the blankets were just for extra security, mine really! Although I know the tortoise knows better than I do, it freaks me out a bit!

The freeze line is 9 inches in our area and he can dig much deeper than than that in the pen.

Yes, Eastern, Washington.

 

[Tortoise]

I wonder about Straw bales?
We have heard of folks here still being able to dig up carrots after laying bales on their veg gardens. It gets to -40 here and below so it works very well for insulation.
However if he tried to resurface-the straw would prevent him.
Do you expect him to stay put? (then the straw would be ok)

 

[GBtortoises]

I don't think the layer of blankets is going to provide much insulation, unless it's about 6" thick. Straw, hay, leaves or other similar materials would provide a better insulation and protection from winds. If the insulating material is put down before the ground freezes on top it will hold more heat in the ground. If it's not done until after a few deep frosts it's not going to have the same insulting effect because you're essentially trapping colder temperatures in rather than keeping them out.

You might trying searching around the bases of plants or other structures. Tortoises rarely ever brumate out in the open if given other choices. Plants and other obstacles from above provide them with added protection and they know it.

 

[lvstorts]

Thanks for the suggestion of straw. We have not had a freeze yet so I'll get it down this weekend, after I look one last time.

I've uprooted every plant and moved every rock in the pen. It's interesting you say they don't like to bury in the open. Mine always do. The other three were in the middle of the pen!

 

[GBtortoises]

"I've uprooted every plant and moved every rock in the pen. It's interesting you say they don't like to bury in the open. Mine always do. The other three were in the middle of the pen!"

It might very well have to do with location of their enclosure and who knows, maybe climate too. Mine are in an open field on a south facing hill that is exposed to wind and cold in the fall and winter. Each of my Eastern Hermann's that brumate outdoors always retreat to under their shelter to do so, despite having several spots out in their enclosure that are protected by low growing shrubs or grass tussocks. My Russians that brumate outdoors will often do so out in the middle of their enclosure, but always under a grass tussock, shrub or rock. I've never experienced a tortoise (or terrestrial turtle) brumate out in the open. Maybe the middle of your enclosure(s) is where the sun shines on the most?

 

[CactusVinnie]

Remembered something: if there is any chance of some rodents, forget the blankets and bale straw... they could- and surely will- attract them, and it will be just a matter of time until they will found the sleeping tortoise. I don't know about native rodents, but many Eurasian species are dangerous- rat and mouse being confirmed, along other few species only here, in Romania. So, not only the notorious rat-mouse, wich are recognised opportunists, but potentially other rodents that don't enter human habitats.

Also, be careful with moving heavy objects- rocks. They may end in a wrong position and MAYBE will be an obstacle for an emerging tortoise (?).

 

[GBtortoises]

I have field mice take up residence in the straw under my tortoises shelters every year. They've never bothered the tortoises. I believe this is mainly due to the tortoises being buried in the soil 2-4" deep. The mice are only interested in seeking warm winter shelter in the straw.

But again, each situation in each environment is different. So if you do feel that you may problems with mice, rats, chipmunks, squirrels, skunks, racoons or other vermin the safety of your tortoises needs to be considered.

 

[CactusVinnie]

GB, it's pretty surprising, but a good surprise in your case. All over Europe are records of horror stories due to rodents- even the Mus musculus is mentioned! Usually rats are the culprits in captive tortoises, and they attack even non-hibernating ones.
Oh, yes- the RACOONS! They are so agile and able to reach anywhere they want- did they bothered you? For small tortoises they are surely dangerous, I think. Thanks God, we don't have such beasts here- although so funny ones!- but if they will start as escaped pets, we will have a problem. Well, the famous stray dogs of the Balkan countries will defend us , at least to a point.

 

[GBtortoises]

But are the tortoises that are being attacked under the soil or in straw or leaves? Mice here rarely dig down far into the soil because they have plenty of cover and protection that is sitting on top of the soil.

I live in a very rural area of the Catskill Mountains in New York State. We have about every northern pest and predator that you can think of. Several rodents, birds of prey, scavengers, hunters, etc... There are racoons all around me, even had one as pet when I was a kid. Food is abundant enough for them here that they don't very often come close enough to human habitation to be a problem. An occasional chicken house raid but usually not much more trouble than that. We also have "wild dogs" here. Coyotes mainly but also "Coydogs" which are coyotes inbred with domestic dogs. There are also occasional stray domestic dogs roaming around but they usually don't last long with the Coyotes!

 

[CactusVinnie]

Rats mostly attacked in the active season, and mice in hibernation. From what I read, that seems to be the rule, but exceptions occur. Thanks God I don't have first hand experiences in that field...
I can say that mice made a lot of holes in a winter with persistent snowcover, that kept the soil unfrozen, despite being the most severe winter in many years! Maybe they were active from that reason? After thawing, the number of holes was incredible! I did not had tortoises at that time, but I remembered that when I got them- those critters could make a tortoise their cold buffet, and after consuming it, making a nice "house" out of its shell ... case reported from France- a nice mice family with kids in a hermanni hermanni shell. Man!!!

 

[lvstorts]

Thought I would close up the thread by letting everyone know I didn't find Barney and he's now somewhere in is pen. I piled 10 inches of straw on top every thing. Taking care to get under the plants also. I think he'll be nice an cozy until Spring.

 

[ascott]

I wish Barney a safe and secure winter sleep Also wish you peace of mind during his sleep

 

[wildchild]

put a tarp over it also, to help keep him warm and dry.