Marginated breeding

[landon]

I have a year old female tortoise named squirt, I would eventually like to see if I can get her to breed. I just need to know proper age, weight, time of year, etc. any info would be helpful thank you.
Landon j

 

[Tom]

This really isn't something that is easily explained in a few sentences. Most of the time, people will keep one adult male and several adult females in a large, well planted outdoor enclosure with lots of sight barriers and places to hide. Alternatively, you can keep the male and female separate and just introduce them for breeding periodically. I just read a paper that said hermanni breed in the fall, hibernate, and then lay their fertile eggs in the spring time so they hatch in summer. I've not read any such studies on marginated, but its likely the same. Some people say they breed in the spring time in captivity, so you could plan on introducing them in the fall and the springtime, to make sure you are covered either way.

At one year old, how are you sure of the sex of your tortoise?

 

[landon]

It was sold to me as a female I'm going off what I was told. I am unsure of how to safely hibernate my tortoise at this point I should start with that before worrying about breeding I assume ? Any tips on that would be amazing @Tom

 

[biochemnerd808]

The captive-bred mother of my yearling was 8 years old when she laid her first clutch. The first clutch had 2 fertile eggs, and the rest were duds. The hatchlings were both small, but thrived.

The mother of one of my baby Marginateds (which I got from GBtortoises) is VERY prolific, she laid multiple very large clutches all throughout the year, starting in the Spring, but continuing into Summer and Fall.

Since Marginated tortoises (as well as many other species of tortoise) grow at different rates, depending on food and other environmental factors, it's probably not so much the age, but rather the size that determines whether a tortoise is ready to breed. The mother of my yearling is about 10" long at about 9 years age. She will likely continue to grow to be about 12" or larger. Her clutch sizes will likely increase, too, and possibly the frequency with which she lays eggs.

As far as safe hibernation, there are some really good articles out there that might help you. Some of the UK pages have good advice, since many UK tortoise owners hibernate their torts. The Tortoise Table is one site, and there is a good article linked from www.russiantortoise.net (it's about Russian torts, but the procedure is the same for other species). If your tortoise was captive bred, you can get away with not hibernating. I'm going to hibernate my yearling, but not my hatchlings.

Males are extra frisky after hibernation, so Springtime is a good time to introduce a male to a female, whether he has hibernated or not. Marginateds are opportunistic breeders, though, and can lay a clutch any time of the year.

I have a year old female tortoise named squirt, I would eventually like to see if I can get her to breed. I just need to know proper age, weight, time of year, etc. any info would be helpful thank you.
Landon j

 

[landon]

Thank you so much, mine was sold to me as captive bred so I don't think I should hibernate her. I want to add a friend in her tank male or female doesn't matter I just don't know if a year and a bit of solitude is to long to introduce a new companion. There is a lot of things I should have dug deeper on before I got her but I'm doing my best at giving her all she needs to thrive.

 

[biochemnerd808]

You are welcome.

In general, and especially with testudo species, it is not recommended to keep 2 tortoises together. 3 or more (given enough space) can work out. But with 2, you are often lining yourself up for disaster. Here's a blog post that outlines it... it uses Russian tortoises as the example, but the same applies for most other tortoises as well: http://tortaddiction.blogspot.com/2013/09/why-not-to-keep-2-tortoises-together.html

Marginated tortoises end up getting quite a bit bigger than e.g. Russians, so space should always be a consideration. Have you built an outdoor enclosure yet?

 

[landon]

I have not built an outdoor enclosure for her yet, as I am in the process of moving. I would like to make her an outdoor enclosure asap but is the area of the world I live in able to give her the temp and wether conditions needed to thrive? I just like the indoor aspect because it seems More of a 'controlled' environment. I live in Oshawa ontario if that helps.
I may be way out of my league on this one, but I would like to find a similar breed but something that hasn't been combined before. But I don't know of scientifically that is possible as of now.


Landon

 

[biochemnerd808]

Living in Canada will not make it easy to have a lot of outdoor time, but it IS possible. If you can have some sort of cold frame with a thermostat (like a mini greenhouse) and a ceramic heat element or a hound heater in there, then your tortoise(s) can warm up in there, go outside to graze and soak up natural sunlight, and then go back in when they get chilly. If the air is 70 degrees, then in the sun, the ground is warmer - warm enough for a tortoise.
This was the first Summer that my tortoises were outside 24/7, and I can see a huge difference in the regularity of their growth, as well as in their coloring. Natural UVB is SO good for tortoises - so even if you can only manage an hour or so of natural sunlight every day, it's worth it.

It is true that factors are more controllable indoors, and it felt scary to me at first, too. I totally understand. However, the fact is, tortoises are naturally outdoor animals, so if it is possible, I feel like they really should be given as much outdoor space and time as you are able to provide.

As far as breeding or cross-breeding species... there are varied opinions. I think every possible combination has probably already been done, somewhere. Ya know... 'nothing new under the sun?' Marginateds can inter-breed with Greek tortoises. However, why would you? Marginateds are approaching endangerment in the wild, so it seems that upholding their genetic purity in captivity would be worth it in the long run. They are a beautiful species as they are... because of their size (being bigger than Greeks), the physics of mating might be a bit boggling, but I know that it has happened. A while ago there was a pic of an Ibera/Marginated cross on this forum, I think. Personally, I keep my tortoises separated by species... and don't plan to create any hybrids.

I have not built an outdoor enclosure for her yet, as I am in the process of moving. I would like to make her an outdoor enclosure asap but is the area of the world I live in able to give her the temp and wether conditions needed to thrive? I just like the indoor aspect because it seems More of a 'controlled' environment. I live in Oshawa ontario if that helps.
I may be way out of my league on this one, but I would like to find a similar breed but something that hasn't been combined before. But I don't know of scientifically that is possible as of now.


Landon

 

[landon]

After hearing that the marginated tortoise is endangered I feel like maybe preservation of the species, in its original state is more important. Also It sounds like the breeding process is very hit and miss with the marginated tortoise. So for now I'm going to try and come up with a predator proof outdoor, thermal regulated enclosure. I want my tortoise to enjoy its life as much as possible.

Also when you mentioned the direct sun contact is the best for growth and health, would putting the box under a window to let natural light in be the next best thing? Or would the window block the uv rays needed?

Thank you again you have been better with your explications then any pet store or websites that I've visited.

 

[peasinapod]

AW: Marginated breeding

Normal glass blocks UV light, sadly.
Your best bet would be to wait until the temps outside are warm enough and then get her outside. :/

 

[biochemnerd808]

The glass of windows blocks the UV rays, HOWEVER, if you can find polycarbonate for greenhouses, it lets UV through. I got lucky and got a stack of triangular scraps for $5 total - I had to piece them together, but it will work well for a little hot house next Spring. Garden and pond supply stores often carry the polycarbonate, and I am sure it is available online, too. Some day I want to build a walk-in greenhouse that has partitions for the different tortoise species we have... but for now a cold frame will have to do.

After hearing that the marginated tortoise is endangered I feel like maybe preservation of the species, in its original state is more important. Also It sounds like the breeding process is very hit and miss with the marginated tortoise. So for now I'm going to try and come up with a predator proof outdoor, thermal regulated enclosure. I want my tortoise to enjoy its life as much as possible.

Also when you mentioned the direct sun contact is the best for growth and health, would putting the box under a window to let natural light in be the next best thing? Or would the window block the uv rays needed?

Thank you again you have been better with your explications then any pet store or websites that I've visited.

 

[samueltg]

The glass of windows blocks the UV rays, HOWEVER, if you can find polycarbonate for greenhouses, it lets UV through. I got lucky and got a stack of triangular scraps for $5 total - I had to piece them together, but it will work well for a little hot house next Spring. Garden and pond supply stores often carry the polycarbonate, and I am sure it is available online, too. Some day I want to build a walk-in greenhouse that has partitions for the different tortoise species we have... but for now a cold frame will have to do.

I know this is an old post but I'm sorry I need to correct you, I work with these materials in a lab.
Polycarbonate is a very poor transmitter of UV light, that is why you use it to make glasses with. It blocks light below 400 nm - all UV light. Tortoises need UV B which is between 320 nm and 290 nm. So this is very unhealthy for the tortoise. Your best bet for this is to use PMMA otherwise known as Acrylic or Perspex, but even that blocks below 300 nm so is not as ideal as direct sunlight.

 

[biochemnerd808]

Good catch! If you look in later posts, I realized the error (which an experienced tortoise keeper had told me when I was new to the game... but they were wrong, lol)... you are correct, and the best is just good old unfiltered real sunshine.

I know this is an old post but I'm sorry I need to correct you, I work with these materials in a lab.
Polycarbonate is a very poor transmitter of UV light, that is why you use it to make glasses with. It blocks light below 400 nm - all UV light. Tortoises need UV B which is between 320 nm and 290 nm. So this is very unhealthy for the tortoise. Your best bet for this is to use PMMA otherwise known as Acrylic or Perspex, but even that blocks below 300 nm so is not as ideal as direct sunlight.