Meggan Walker’s Sulcata Owner

[megganwalker]

I received my baby tortoise back in April. The original owner found him (we think we don’t know sex till it’s older) in October on a bike ride. Since we’ve had him he’s active, happy, and is in good health. But….. he hasn’t grown and he’s a year old. He’s literally almost the size he was back in April. Could his growth be stunted? I’ve made an appt w an Exotic Pet Vet.

 

[OliveW]

I'm sure our in house experts will be along to help. I'm a novice, but would love to see a photo or two of this guy.

 

[Yvonne G]

Humidity and heat are very important to the GROWTH of a baby sulcata. Please post pictures of this baby's enclosure and clue us in as to his humidity and temperature - day and night.

 

[LeoTheWaywardTortoise]

Hello and welcome! Pics would be helpful, along with info on his care, i.e. description and pics of his enclosure including what kind of substrate you are using, the temps and humidity in his enclosure, what kind of heating and UVB (if you’re keeping him indoors exclusively), and what his diet consists of… all of this info will help the experts to provide advice.

Congrats on joining the best forum, hands down, for info on proper tortoise husbandry! The experts here like @Tom and others are extremely generous with their experience and wisdom.

 

[megganwalker]

I'm sure our in house experts will be along to help. I'm a novice, but would love to see a photo or two of this guy.

 

[Tom]

I received my baby tortoise back in April. The original owner found him (we think we don’t know sex till it’s older) in October on a bike ride. Since we’ve had him he’s active, happy, and is in good health. But….. he hasn’t grown and he’s a year old. He’s literally almost the size he was back in April. Could his growth be stunted? I’ve made an appt w an Exotic Pet Vet.

This species needs warm humid monsoon type conditions. Most of the care advice your find for them from almost every source is all wrong.

Also, moss will be eaten and can cause impaction. That should be removed.

Hay is only for adults, not babies. When the time comes for hay, you don't want Timothy hay. You want orchard grass hay, but that is a couple of years away at least.

This baby should be house primarily indoors, soaked daily, and kept warm at night.

There is nothing a vet is going to see when you take this tortoise in. Most of them don't know tortoises or tortoise care, and they usually want to do more harm than good. "Vitamin injections" are a sure sign of a vet that doesn't know tortoises. It wouldn't hurt to run a fecal sample to check for parasites, but be careful. Ivermectin is a great broad spectrum wormer for many animals, but it is toxic to tortoises. Ignorant vets prescribe it from time to time, so pay close attention to what they are doing, and don't let them take the animal in the back without you.

Here is the correct care info and questions are welcome:

The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. Babies hatch during the...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[megganwalker]

This species needs warm humid monsoon type conditions. Most of the care advice your find for them from almost every source is all wrong.

Also, moss will be eaten and can cause impaction. That should be removed.

Hay is only for adults, not babies. When the time comes for hay, you don't want Timothy hay. You want orchard grass hay, but that is a couple of years away at least.

This baby should be house primarily indoors, soaked daily, and kept warm at night.

There is nothing a vet is going to see when you take this tortoise in. Most of them don't know tortoises or tortoise care, and they usually want to do more harm than good. "Vitamin injections" are a sure sign of a vet that doesn't know tortoises. It wouldn't hurt to run a fecal sample to check for parasites, but be careful. Ivermectin is a great broad spectrum wormer for many animals, but it is toxic to tortoises. Ignorant vets prescribe it from time to time, so pay close attention to what they are doing, and don't let them take the animal in the back without you.

Here is the correct care info and questions are welcome:

The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. Babies hatch during the...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[megganwalker]

I had no idea about the moss. I was given it when we took her and I see it at pet stores. Isn’t the miss supposed to help?

 

[LeoTheWaywardTortoise]

I had no idea about the moss. I was given it when we took her and I see it at pet stores. Isn’t the miss supposed to help?

While moss holds humidity, tortoises can eat it and get an impaction. Pet stores are really NOT experts at proper care for tortoises, so I urge you to read Tom’s care sheets and take his advice. He has raised Sulcatas for many, many years and has conducted numerous experiments to find the best way to raise healthy, thriving torts. I’m a novice, but I’ve been studying this forum for almost a year (since my Sulcata arrived in our household) and I am so grateful for his advice and care sheets.

Your little one is beautifu!

 

[Tom]

I had no idea about the moss. I was given it when we took her and I see it at pet stores. Isn’t the miss supposed to help?

The moss does nothing. Damp substrate does the exact same thing. I am certain you have seen it at pet stores. That is why I said that almost all of the care advice you get from almost every source is wrong. I used to work in pet shops years ago, and I did it all wrong back then too. You have now found the right info.

 

[megganwalker]

This species needs warm humid monsoon type conditions. Most of the care advice your find for them from almost every source is all wrong.

Also, moss will be eaten and can cause impaction. That should be removed.

Hay is only for adults, not babies. When the time comes for hay, you don't want Timothy hay. You want orchard grass hay, but that is a couple of years away at least.

This baby should be house primarily indoors, soaked daily, and kept warm at night.

There is nothing a vet is going to see when you take this tortoise in. Most of them don't know tortoises or tortoise care, and they usually want to do more harm than good. "Vitamin injections" are a sure sign of a vet that doesn't know tortoises. It wouldn't hurt to run a fecal sample to check for parasites, but be careful. Ivermectin is a great broad spectrum wormer for many animals, but it is toxic to tortoises. Ignorant vets prescribe it from time to time, so pay close attention to what they are doing, and don't let them take the animal in the back without you.

Here is the correct care info and questions are welcome:

The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. Babies hatch during the...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[megganwalker]

After a year do you think from the pictures that my tortoise growth is stunted? I am afraid now to take to vet to ask. After one year I thought he’d be bigger. I have used all the lighting and used calcium and water bath to the enclosure for 6 months now.

 

[megganwalker]

I received my baby tortoise back in April. The original owner found him (we think we don’t know sex till it’s older) in October on a bike ride. Since we’ve had him he’s active, happy, and is in good health. But….. he hasn’t grown and he’s a year old. He’s literally almost the size he was back in April. Could his growth be stunted? I’ve made an appt w an Exotic Pet Vet.

This species needs warm humid monsoon type conditions. Most of the care advice your find for them from almost every source is all wrong.

Also, moss will be eaten and can cause impaction. That should be removed.

Hay is only for adults, not babies. When the time comes for hay, you don't want Timothy hay. You want orchard grass hay, but that is a couple of years away at least.

This baby should be house primarily indoors, soaked daily, and kept warm at night.

There is nothing a vet is going to see when you take this tortoise in. Most of them don't know tortoises or tortoise care, and they usually want to do more harm than good. "Vitamin injections" are a sure sign of a vet that doesn't know tortoises. It wouldn't hurt to run a fecal sample to check for parasites, but be careful. Ivermectin is a great broad spectrum wormer for many animals, but it is toxic to tortoises. Ignorant vets prescribe it from time to time, so pay close attention to what they are doing, and don't let them take the animal in the back without you.

Here is the correct care info and questions are welcome:

The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. Babies hatch during the...

tortoiseforum.org

also here is my enclosure for him. There is a hide away place for him and I spray water sometimes into it. He also has that arched place to hide. Looks like the water dish needs to be changed. We live in Arizona so grass isn’t an option. Can I buy Bermuda grass? Substrate I use is what you’ve recommended. I add calcium to his food and generally we feed him lettuce, dandelions (dried) . Do I need to wet the dried plants like the bag of dandelion mix ?

 

[Yvonne G]

Have you ever seen your baby get into that snake/lizard water bowl? A body such as your tortoise has, a hard body that doesn't bend, would find it almost impossible to drink out of that bowl, and if he were able to get into it, he might drown trying to get back out. Most of us use a plant saucer that is recessed down into the substrate.

Tortoises that have been stunted early on will eventually start growing again, but it takes a while, a couple years. That's AFTER you've corrected his living conditions. Like I said above, baby sulcata tortoises need warmth, day and night, and humidity to grow.

 

[Tom]

After a year do you think from the pictures that my tortoise growth is stunted? I am afraid now to take to vet to ask. After one year I thought he’d be bigger. I have used all the lighting and used calcium and water bath to the enclosure for 6 months now.

Stunted means that it won't eventually grow. I don't think that is your case.

Wild sulcatas hatch into the rain on a hot humid rainy day at the start of the rainy season. It is actual rain that makes them hurriedly dig up and climb out of their nest after sitting there underground in the nest for some time. Your climate, and mine too, is great for older adult sulcatas that can tolerate dry conditions. Our climates are terrible and way too dry for babies. Your baby hatched into dry conditions and did not get a proper start in life.

The following is meant to help you, not insult you or hurt your feelings. If no one tells you what is wrong, you can't fix it. Your enclosure is all wrong. It is all of the usual wrong pet store stuff. It is very obvious that you spent a lot of time money and effort trying to take excellent care of this little tortoise. My hat is off to you for that, and I commend you. The problem is that you found all the usual wrong info that almost everyone finds. Looks like you went to the pet store and they sold you all the wrong stuff. Good... no... GREAT intentions on your part, but because of the bad info you received, this is the wrong way to house a baby sulcata, and you are seeing the results a year later.

Here is what is wrong:
1. Wrong type of enclosure. Those tortoise houses are not good for any species of tortoise. They are too open for babies, and too small for adults. You cannot maintain the correct growing conditions with an open topped enclosure. That is like trying to heat your house in winter with no roof on it. Your heater can run 24/7, but the heat will just drift up into the sky. It doesn't work. Your house needs a roof and so does your tortoise's enclosure. You need a closed chamber, not an open topped enclosure.
2. As Yvonne pointed out, those water bowls are great for snakes and lizards, but dangerous and unusual for tortoises. Get a large terra cotta saucer and sink it into the substrate.
3. You got the wrong substrate. No hay and no moss. I can't tell what the rest of it is. If it is orchid bark or cypress mulch, it should be fine, but you need to replace it to get rid of all the dangerous stuff in it.
4. Looks like you've got the wrong bulbs. There are four elements to heating and lighting:

1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. In most cases you'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night. Some people in colder climates or with larger enclosures will need multiple CHEs or RHPs to spread out enough heat.
3. Ambient light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in LED bulb types are both fine.
4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In colder climates, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12% HO bulbs from Arcadia. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html A good UV bulb only needs to run for 2-3 hours mid day. You need the basking bulb and the ambient lighting to be on at least 12 hours a day.

5. Are you soaking the tortoise daily in warm water for 30-40 minutes?
6. How are you keeping the tortoise warm at night?
7. The tortoise needs a humid hide.

I hope this all helps. If you get this tortoise housed and cared for correctly, it will likely resume normal growth. Questions are welcome.

 

[megganwalker]

Anyone here on this thread have an enclosure that I can purchase that is ready for a baby tortoise? I changed the water bowl today and got rid of the moss. I bought new substrate.

 

[megganwalker]

Stunted means that it won't eventually grow. I don't think that is your case.

Wild sulcatas hatch into the rain on a hot humid rainy day at the start of the rainy season. It is actual rain that makes them hurriedly dig up and climb out of their nest after sitting there underground in the nest for some time. Your climate, and mine too, is great for older adult sulcatas that can tolerate dry conditions. Our climates are terrible and way too dry for babies. Your baby hatched into dry conditions and did not get a proper start in life.

The following is meant to help you, not insult you or hurt your feelings. If no one tells you what is wrong, you can't fix it. Your enclosure is all wrong. It is all of the usual wrong pet store stuff. It is very obvious that you spent a lot of time money and effort trying to take excellent care of this little tortoise. My hat is off to you for that, and I commend you. The problem is that you found all the usual wrong info that almost everyone finds. Looks like you went to the pet store and they sold you all the wrong stuff. Good... no... GREAT intentions on your part, but because of the bad info you received, this is the wrong way to house a baby sulcata, and you are seeing the results a year later.

Here is what is wrong:
1. Wrong type of enclosure. Those tortoise houses are not good for any species of tortoise. They are too open for babies, and too small for adults. You cannot maintain the correct growing conditions with an open topped enclosure. That is like trying to heat your house in winter with no roof on it. Your heater can run 24/7, but the heat will just drift up into the sky. It doesn't work. Your house needs a roof and so does your tortoise's enclosure. You need a closed chamber, not an open topped enclosure.
2. As Yvonne pointed out, those water bowls are great for snakes and lizards, but dangerous and unusual for tortoises. Get a large terra cotta saucer and sink it into the substrate.
3. You got the wrong substrate. No hay and no moss. I can't tell what the rest of it is. If it is orchid bark or cypress mulch, it should be fine, but you need to replace it to get rid of all the dangerous stuff in it.
4. Looks like you've got the wrong bulbs. There are four elements to heating and lighting:

1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. In most cases you'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night. Some people in colder climates or with larger enclosures will need multiple CHEs or RHPs to spread out enough heat.
3. Ambient light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in LED bulb types are both fine.
4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In colder climates, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12% HO bulbs from Arcadia. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html A good UV bulb only needs to run for 2-3 hours mid day. You need the basking bulb and the ambient lighting to be on at least 12 hours a day.

5. Are you soaking the tortoise daily in warm water for 30-40 minutes?
6. How are you keeping the tortoise warm at night?
7. The tortoise needs a humid hide.

I hope this all helps. If you get this tortoise housed and cared for correctly, it will likely resume normal growth. Questions are welcome.

Where can I buy a new terrarium? I was given this by original owner and I thought it worked great. Changed the water bowl. I have two heat lamps one uv and the other heat . It’s at 90 and 80 humidity. I spray the terrarium and use the orchid substrate.

 

[Yvonne G]

You can do something to amend the conditions of that enclosure. Think about something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07P9T4CY3/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

 

[Tom]

Where can I buy a new terrarium? I was given this by original owner and I thought it worked great. Changed the water bowl. I have two heat lamps one uv and the other heat . It’s at 90 and 80 humidity. I spray the terrarium and use the orchid substrate.

@Markw84 makes and sells them. There are many sellers of them now. You can close in and cover the top as much as possible with aluminum foil until you get something more suitable.

You aren't telling us what type of UV bulb, but from the looks of it, you have the wrong one. This is my third time mentioning this. The one it appears you are using, a cfl type that screws in, is both ineffective and potentially dangerous.

Orchid bark substrate is great, but yours is full of bits of hay that will mold, and bits of moss that can cause impaction, so it needs to be replaced.

It appears that you are not using a heat source for night time. The baby needs to be 80 degrees or more day and night. Room temps at night will certainly slow or stunt the growth, and could also make them sick.

There is no way you have 80% humidity with an open top in AZ. If you are using those round stick-on dial types humidity and temp gauges from a pet store, know that those are notoriously inaccurate and unreliable.

Nobody wants to hear that they have to re-do everything and spend more money, but that is what is necessary if you want this baby to survive and thrive. I'm sorry you got the wrong info to begin with. Almost everyone does, unless they happen to find us first, but isn't it better to know?

 

[megganwalker]

@Markw84 makes and sells them. There are many sellers of them now. You can close in and cover the top as much as possible with aluminum foil until you get something more suitable.

You aren't telling us what type of UV bulb, but from the looks of it, you have the wrong one. This is my third time mentioning this. The one it appears you are using, a cfl type that screws in, is both ineffective and potentially dangerous.

Orchid bark substrate is great, but yours is full of bits of hay that will mold, and bits of moss that can cause impaction, so it needs to be replaced.

It appears that you are not using a heat source for night time. The baby needs to be 80 degrees or more day and night. Room temps at night will certainly slow or stunt the growth, and could also make them sick.

There is no way you have 80% humidity with an open top in AZ. If you are using those round stick-on dial types humidity and temp gauges from a pet store, know that those are notoriously inaccurate and unreliable.

Nobody wants to hear that they have to re-do everything and spend more money, but that is what is necessary if you want this baby to survive and thrive. I'm sorry you got the wrong info to begin with. Almost everyone does, unless they happen to find us first, but isn't it better to know?

May the my instruments I use aren’t working. I’ll look into that as well! I also have a second lamp for evenings. I’ll check the watts and see what needs done from the list you have me. I’m canceling my vet appt too! Thanks for the help Tom!