My mystery tort is a Greek?

[biochemnerd808]

Hi,
we picked up a little mystery tort yesterday that I found on Craigslist. The old owner called it a "tahitian" tortoise (which doesn't exist). At first we thought it is a Hermann's but then I was told by several folks on this forum that it is a little Greek. We named it "Boo" because he is so shy, and because we got him right after Halloween. He was captive-bred, hatched in 2005.

The old owner drilled a hole and attached a ring for a tether - in the pics I hadn't removed it yet, but the ring is OUT.

I am wondering if someone can tell me what KIND of Greek we have, and if it's a male or a female? (see attached pics)

Also, I have 3 Russian torts, so am familiar with care... is there anything I need to do differently for Boo the Greek than for my Russians? Obviously I am keeping them in separate enclosures... we have basking and good UVB lighting. Bedding is coconut coir with playsand (1:1 by dry weight). Basking area temp is 95 degrees F, with a gradient to room temp (70 degrees). Do Greek torts need night heat? My Russians do.

Thank you!

 

[bobbymoore]

Looks Greek

 

[Pokeymeg]

Sorry, I don't know familiar with greek sub-species! Be patient, I'm sure someone will come along soon to help identify!

 

[colatoise]

I have Greek and I keep my night temps above 60. Mine is almost a year old and will not be hibernating.

 

[GBtortoises]

It's most likely an Antakyn Greek, Testudo gracea antakyensis. There are several Middle Eastern and Western Turkish populations of Greek tortoise that are similar in size, shape and appearance. Without knowing exactly where a tortoise has been collected in the wild it is often difficult to pinpont an exact subspecies. To add to the confusion, many of the "known" subspecies are in constant flux in terms of validity, identifying criteria and so on. It's usually more important to be aware of what region that a Greek tortoise is from rather than it's precise subspecies when it comes to captive care requirements. The three major regions that Greek tortoises are found is North Africa, the Middle East and the Northern Mediterranean. Each geographical region varies enough in terms of climate that it is worth noting for the care of a tortoise from a given region.

It looks like a male, but a better shot of the tail would tell for certain.

A Middle Eastern Greek does have some captive requirements similar to Russians with one major difference. Middle Eastern Greeks cannot take a cold temperatures as Russians. Night times should not fall much below 60-65 degrees on a regular basis especially when high humdity or dampness is present.

Russian tortoises do not require night time heat unless the temperatures are consistently below 50 degrees at night.

 

[biochemnerd808]

Thank you so much, @GBtortoises!

I will try to get a better pic of the tail... Boo is so shy, he pulls completely into his shell whenever anyone comes near is enclosure, let alone touches him. He has some cool very light markings on is head and front legs, too, that I'd like to try to catch on camera.

The room that Boo's enclosure is in never gets below 68 degrees F. In the Summer my torts spend a lot of the daytime outside, but always sleep indoors, so then, too, the temps wouldn't drop below 68. So I don't need to get him a night heater.

It's most likely an Antakyn Greek, Testudo gracea antakyensis. There are several Middle Eastern and Western Turkish populations of Greek tortoise that are similar in size, shape and appearance. Without knowing exactly where a tortoise has been collected in the wild it is often difficult to pinpont an exact subspecies. To add to the confusion, many of the "known" subspecies are in constant flux in terms of validity, identifying criteria and so on. It's usually more important to be aware of what region that a Greek tortoise is from rather than it's precise subspecies when it comes to captive care requirements. The three major regions that Greek tortoises are found is North Africa, the Middle East and the Northern Mediterranean. Each geographical region varies enough in terms of climate that it is worth noting for the care of a tortoise from a given region.

It looks like a male, but a better shot of the tail would tell for certain.

A Middle Eastern Greek does have some captive requirements similar to Russians with one major difference. Middle Eastern Greeks cannot take a cold temperatures as Russians. Night times should not fall much below 60-65 degrees on a regular basis especially when high humdity or dampness is present.

Russian tortoises do not require night time heat unless the temperatures are consistently below 50 degrees at night.

 

[biochemnerd808]

@GBtortoises, someone asked me if the previous owner might have meant "tunisian" instead of "tahitian". I just looked up "tunisian tortoise" out of curiosity. Googling "Tunisian greeks, Testudo graeca nabeulensis."

I find they look A LOT like our little boo, and they are also smaller and skinnier than other greeks, so he/she might not be as runty as it seems... here is an article about them: http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/tunisian.html

Boo is 7 years old, but only is 5.5 inches and weighs 475g.

What do you think, is it more likely a Tunisian or an Antakyn Greek?

Attached is a top view pic from the first day we got Boo (still with the ring in), and then one pic of him eating today (you can see the bright pale yellow scales on his head, as well as on his cheeks). His beak is very overgrown, we will have it trimmed once he is more comfortable with people... right now he hides whenever someone comes within 10 feet of him. Had to zoom my camera to get a pic.

 

[CactusVinnie]

Yes, I was tempted to say Tunisian, but the plastron dark colouration, not well defined contrasts, is indeed typical for Ibera-group. That far as I know, but the previous owner with his "tahitian" makes me wonder... well, if GB says antakyensis, that should be. Nice one, whatever it is!

 

[biochemnerd808]

My guess is, unless the previous owner gets back to me with the breeder's info (which they promised they would, but who knows), we'll never know for sure. Thankfully care is pretty much the same (except that Tunisians don't hibernate), and either way, we love him!

BTW, I haven't been able to get a good tail pic, but he does have a fairly long male-ish looking tail (looks a lot like my male Russian's tale), and the underside of his shell (plastron) is concave. So I'll be referring to Boo as a "he" from here on.

Yes, I was tempted to say Tunisian, but the plastron dark colouration, not well defined contrasts, is indeed typical for Ibera-group. That far as I know, but the previous owner with his "tahitian" makes me wonder... well, if GB says antakyensis, that should be. Nice one, whatever it is!

 

[GBtortoises]

Definitely not Tunisian. It is an Antakyn. Many dispute the validity of the Antakyn subspecies (myself included). As Cactus Vinnie states, "Ibera"-group. They are considered one in the same by most. But there is quite a difference in the true northern Ibera clan compared to Middle Eastern Ibera (Antakyn). That is the main reason that I always tend to call them Antakyn rather than Ibera, to distinguish the difference in appearance as well as minor captive care requirements.
Confused yet?

 

[biochemnerd808]

Not confused. Thank you for taking the time to help us figure out what kind of tortoise we have.

This does mean that Boo is on the small side for his age. Any suggestions on special care? Or should I just proceed with a healthy leafy greens diet, good heat and UVB light, and hope his growth catches up?

Definitely not Tunisian. It is an Antakyn. Many dispute the validity of the Antakyn subspecies (myself included). As Cactus Vinnie states, "Ibera"-group. They are considered one in the same by most. But there is quite a difference in the true northern Ibera clan compared to Middle Eastern Ibera (Antakyn). That is the main reason that I always tend to call them Antakyn rather than Ibera, to distinguish the difference in appearance as well as minor captive care requirements.
Confused yet?