Need more heat

[Betsy]

So I have a custom built winter enclosure for my torty. It’s been doing great but last night was the first night temps dropped into the low 40s/high 30s and the ceramic bulb couldn’t keep up. The inside temp dropped to 60. During the day he’s getting proper temps, including basking, but when there’s that high of a change he tends to not want to eat the next day or days until it’s more consistent. We learned this when we thought the enclosure would hold the heat overnight and not need the ceramic night temp. Lesson learned. Now I’m trying to figure out if we need a 2nd ceramic bulb (another lamp) or should I do a pig blanket? He’s only a 10lb lil guy, maybe a pound or so more and one always been told heating pads can burn or hurt reptiles?

Images attached of his enclosure. Not seen is the bedding (hay) and two lamps.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hello! Maybe oil-filled radiator can fit in? You will need to put it on a thermostat and section somehow to keep out of tortoise reach. It should provide enough heat for the colder nights and not expensive.

Here is the detailed night box design with heating and insulation to get some ideas for improvement:

Single Tortoise Night Box

I like my larger tortoises to live outside full time. My climate permits this year round with a little help. For people who live where it snows all winter, this type of box is still good for warmer weather, getting them out earlier in Spring, and keeping them out a bit later into fall. You'll...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[Betsy]

Hello! Maybe oil-filled radiator can fit in? You will need to put it on a thermostat and section somehow to keep out of tortoise reach. It should provide enough heat for the colder nights and not expensive.

Here is the detailed night box design with heating and insulation to get some ideas for improvement:

Single Tortoise Night Box

I like my larger tortoises to live outside full time. My climate permits this year round with a little help. For people who live where it snows all winter, this type of box is still good for warmer weather, getting them out earlier in Spring, and keeping them out a bit later into fall. You'll...

tortoiseforum.org

We have an electric heat fan we’ve thought of adding, you think that would work?

 

[Tom]

So I have a custom built winter enclosure for my torty. It’s been doing great but last night was the first night temps dropped into the low 40s/high 30s and the ceramic bulb couldn’t keep up. The inside temp dropped to 60. During the day he’s getting proper temps, including basking, but when there’s that high of a change he tends to not want to eat the next day or days until it’s more consistent. We learned this when we thought the enclosure would hold the heat overnight and not need the ceramic night temp. Lesson learned. Now I’m trying to figure out if we need a 2nd ceramic bulb (another lamp) or should I do a pig blanket? He’s only a 10lb lil guy, maybe a pound or so more and one always been told heating pads can burn or hurt reptiles?

Images attached of his enclosure. Not seen is the bedding (hay) and two lamps.

Where are you and what species are we talking about? What are the dimensions of the box?

 

[Betsy]

Where are you and what species are we talking about? What are the dimensions of the box?

North Carolina. I have a sulcata and the box is 4x6

 

[Tom]

North Carolina. I have a sulcata and the box is 4x6

That box is an engineering marvel. Truly a work of art and beautifully done. It looks like the top part of the wall that meets the roof is not insulated. You are losing some heat there. Also, the windows look super cool, but this is a sulcata, and this box is supposed to simulate a burrow. You are losing heat through those windows and the tortoise doesn't want light coming into the "burrow" anyway. I'd be very curious to point a Flir camera at this house at night and see what it is doing.

Your tortoise is getting too big for CHEs. That will burn the top of the carapace at some point, and not effectively warm a large tortoise. Time for new heating strategies.

Regular stick-on reptile heat mats made for indoor enclosures are the ones we recommend against for tortoises. Kane heat mats are a completely different thing. They are engineered and made as "farrowing blankets" for sows having babies in winter to keep the little piglets warm while nursing. Large heavy hoofed animals walking on them, laying on them, and soiling them are what these mats are made for. They will not burn your tortoise when used like this and controlled by a thermostat. The Kane mat alone is not enough. I like to hang a RHP (radiant heat panel) over them. I've always used the Vivarium Electronics ones, and recently tried the "Sweeter Heaters". Both will work for your application, but you can also get radiant heaters made for chicken coops at Tractor Supply that will work. This combination of Kane Mat below and RHP above has worked well for me in my 4x4x2 foot boxes. You box is probably twice that volume, and I'm not sure if it is 100% insulated all around like mine are, so I don't think this strategy is going to work in your box without some added heat. Maybe lager Kane mats and a larger RHP would do it. Maybe leaving the CHE running, but having it mounted up high so it can't burn the tortoise would work. Your box is a custom size and shape with custom features. The only way to figure out what will heat it properly is to try and run it, and then see what tale your thermometer tells.

In my 4x8x2 foot boxes, I usually use a mini radiant oil heater. You can get them from Walmart for about $50, so they are much cheaper than the Kane mat/RHP option, and also very efficient to run. You need the same thermostat wither way. Whoever made that fantastic box should be able to design and build in a little wall to keep the tortoise away from the radiant oil heater.

Your "electric heat fan" might work, but that will not be efficient, and you will see it on the electric bill for sure. I started out using those many years ago. Little space heaters. The mini radiant oil heaters work much better.

The tortoise is not refusing food because there is a large differential between day and night temperature. He's not eating because 60 is simply way too cold for this species. When temps drop that low, it kills of and disrupts the gut flora and fauna. This is monumental for a tortoise. Sulcatas should not drop below 80 degrees day or night. It fine if they walk around in the sun outside on a 60 degree day as long as they have a warm area to go back to and keep their core heated up. I set my box thermostats to 80 in spring and fall when days are warm and sunny, but nights are cold. I set my thermostats to 86 in winter when some of the days don't warm up enough. I encourage sulcatas to burrow in our scorching summers when the outside temp is around 100 every day. I don't know how hot your summers get or how shaded your box location is, so the box may still work for you in summer.

Questions are welcome!

 

[Betsy]

That box is an engineering marvel. Truly a work of art and beautifully done. It looks like the top part of the wall that meets the roof is not insulated. You are losing some heat there. Also, the windows look super cool, but this is a sulcata, and this box is supposed to simulate a burrow. You are losing heat through those windows and the tortoise doesn't want light coming into the "burrow" anyway. I'd be very curious to point a Flir camera at this house at night and see what it is doing.

Your tortoise is getting too big for CHEs. That will burn the top of the carapace at some point, and not effectively warm a large tortoise. Time for new heating strategies.

Regular stick-on reptile heat mats made for indoor enclosures are the ones we recommend against for tortoises. Kane heat mats are a completely different thing. They are engineered and made as "farrowing blankets" for sows having babies in winter to keep the little piglets warm while nursing. Large heavy hoofed animals walking on them, laying on them, and soiling them are what these mats are made for. They will not burn your tortoise when used like this and controlled by a thermostat. The Kane mat alone is not enough. I like to hang a RHP (radiant heat panel) over them. I've always used the Vivarium Electronics ones, and recently tried the "Sweeter Heaters". Both will work for your application, but you can also get radiant heaters made for chicken coops at Tractor Supply that will work. This combination of Kane Mat below and RHP above has worked well for me in my 4x4x2 foot boxes. You box is probably twice that volume, and I'm not sure if it is 100% insulated all around like mine are, so I don't think this strategy is going to work in your box without some added heat. Maybe lager Kane mats and a larger RHP would do it. Maybe leaving the CHE running, but having it mounted up high so it can't burn the tortoise would work. Your box is a custom size and shape with custom features. The only way to figure out what will heat it properly is to try and run it, and then see what tale your thermometer tells.

In my 4x8x2 foot boxes, I usually use a mini radiant oil heater. You can get them from Walmart for about $50, so they are much cheaper than the Kane mat/RHP option, and also very efficient to run. You need the same thermostat wither way. Whoever made that fantastic box should be able to design and build in a little wall to keep the tortoise away from the radiant oil heater.

Your "electric heat fan" might work, but that will not be efficient, and you will see it on the electric bill for sure. I started out using those many years ago. Little space heaters. The mini radiant oil heaters work much better.

The tortoise is not refusing food because there is a large differential between day and night temperature. He's not eating because 60 is simply way too cold for this species. When temps drop that low, it kills of and disrupts the gut flora and fauna. This is monumental for a tortoise. Sulcatas should not drop below 80 degrees day or night. It fine if they walk around in the sun outside on a 60 degree day as long as they have a warm area to go back to and keep their core heated up. I set my box thermostats to 80 in spring and fall when days are warm and sunny, but nights are cold. I set my thermostats to 86 in winter when some of the days don't warm up enough. I encourage sulcatas to burrow in our scorching summers when the outside temp is around 100 every day. I don't know how hot your summers get or how shaded your box location is, so the box may still work for you in summer.

Questions are welcome!

Thank you! I will start research right away on all that you’ve suggested and start applying them to see what works.

The windows were my husbands idea since it gets so cold sometimes that the tortoise can’t leave the box for days or weeks at a time and it allows some of the natural light in during the coldest times. I couldn’t talk him out of it lol.

There is a small crack at the top where the roof closes that the builder said was for ventilation. The heat stays pretty constant and insulated until this major drop in temp. It was 33 last night and it dropped to 60 inside. Usually it stays at above 80 night and day. Hence why I’m panicking to fix it for the lowers temps.

Will the RHP provide the UBA/UVB for when the tortoise can’t leave the box? That’s the main reason we still have those lamps. I’ve attached an image from the ring camera we have in there only on him so you can see the set up. Lamps on one side, his food and water are on the opposite

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

No RHP, like CHE, don't provide any visible light and apparently no UVB. It's a pure heat source.

 

[Tom]

Will the RHP provide the UBA/UVB for when the tortoise can’t leave the box? That’s the main reason we still have those lamps. I’ve attached an image from the ring camera we have in there only on him so you can see the set up. Lamps on one side, his food and water are on the opposite

You don't need UV for a tortoise that lives outside. They can go a couple of months with no UV with no harm at all. They store D3 in their fat cells when times are good. I think most tortoises, but especially sulcatas, prefer it dark in their night boxes. It supposed to be like a burrow for them.

6x3 is not nearly enough space for this tortoise to live in during winter cold spells that last weeks or months. They need a large warm space to walk around in. The night box only serves as a warm place to sleep, or a warm retreat to go into after walking around in cooler weather. Its not a place for them to live.