New hatchling help!

[candycornsnake]

I will go make a proper intro post...but I am very worried right now and wanted to post here first. My GF and I have a nice reptile collection. Many snakes and lizards, one box turtle, one painted, and one mud.

We have been researching sulcatas for several months now in hopes of acquiring a hatchling to grow for our educational events. We found a nice hatchling at the Hamburg expo yesterday and brought her home. It was a 2.5 hour trip, but we kept the car warm and her deli cup secure. She was very active at the show, with bright clear eyes and nostrils, and she was active on the trip home in her carrier.

She was asleep by the time we got home, and we put her into her viv with a little food, some hay and water. She cruised a little and then went back to sleep. This was around 7 PM last night.

This morning, she did not wake up right away. She then woke and moved halfway across her tank. I offered food again and still she continued to lay around. I am actually getting concerned at this point. Is it normal for a baby tortoise to sleep so much, or is something wrong? My box turtle kind of sits around all day, but is alert enough to watch you at least. She is not watching anything.

Her temps on the warm side are in the mid 80's via ceramic heat emitter, and on the cool side, mid-70's. She has food, hay and water, and a ReptiSun 10.0 UV bulb, brand new. She is on papertowel for the moment. I am hoping this is just me being my usual worry wart self. I don't see what could have gone wrong so fast, especially when her tank is set up ideally for her species.

Any thoughts?

 

[Meg90]

She's too cold. She needs a hot spot in the upper ninties (shoot for 95-100F) and a warm side in the high eighties. Her other side should be cooler so she can thermoregulate.

Everything sounds pretty good otherwise (like your UVB etc) but I do think she needs a hot spot to bask under, and warmer temps throughout.

What are you feeding her diet wise? Young sulcata don't eat hay, so I am wondering what else you are offering.

What time was it that she was still asleep? Young torts need to acclimate to their new enclosures just like any other animal. What time do her lights come on? My little ones are up around 2 hours after "sun up" but I use MVBs so its nice and bright and hot out right away. Actually, they may get up sooner, but their lights go on when I am asleep. Regardless, all of them are waiting on feeding tiles for me when I get out of bed, ready for breakfast.

A young tortoise should not be lethargic. My youngest hatchling was 6 weeks old when I got her, and she was never lethargic. She napped like all babies do, but she was active in between those periods.

 

[candycornsnake]

Thank you for the reply! I decided after reading some other threads about baby torts to change her over to a more natural substrate so she could burrow. I also added several additional hides. As soon as I started adding substrate, she perked right up and started cruising the cage. She went over to the food bowl and began eating too.
Basking spot is at 99 degrees. The dinner she got tonight was a finely chopped mix of kale, butternut and yellow squash.

 

[tortoisenerd]

I agree with Meg! Offer a warmer area of 95-100 at the substrate surface (the other temps sound fine with a total gradient from 70/75 to 95/100). Tortoises need to warm their bellies to the high 80s to even want to think about eating. Make sure you have a cool hide as well as a hide near the basking area to make sure she feels safe to go bask. If you have space, a hide also near the eating area is great as hatchlings are typically very skittish (if the cool or warm hides don't already cover this area). In the wild they spend almost all their time hiding from predators. Offer a very varied diet to see what she likes to get her eating. Later on when the tort is higher you will need to account for the tortoise's height when measuring temperatures at the substrate surface, but for now you don't have to worry about that. If you don't already have one, an accurate thermometer such as a laser one is very important. You can start with organic spring mix (no spinach), but you definitely need to think a long-term diet of weeds, greens, and lettuces for these first couple years until she gets a taste for hay and you can let her into the yard to graze on grass and weeds.

You need to ask the breeder what she was eating before you brought her home. You may have a hard time getting her to eat anything but that as she won't think of it as food--typically we suggest starting with the old food and if it needs to be changed to something more appropriate, mix the new food into it in increasingly larger ratios. If you only offered hay, that is likely your problem as she doesn't think of it as food at this point (unless on the very off chance the breeder already got her eating that, which I have never heard of). Your tort hatchling should be active and alert, moving around to bask and eat each day, but a lot of napping and times of inactivity are also normal too. What are your substrate plans after the paper towels? If you can provide enclosure photos that will be very helpful.

There is a lot of mis-information out there on tortoises and especially Sulcatas, so we want to check that you got appropriate information. Tanks/aquariums are typically not ideal due to high sides blocking air flow, the difficulty in having a temperature gradient, and the glass is great for humans but not for torts as they can see out and they sometimes get stressed. That said, with some adjustments (putting paper up on the sides so she can't see out, and making sure you are getting sufficient air flow and a proper temperature gradient) and if it is a tank with lower sides (long not tall) it could work. If you just bought it, I would return it and instead get a large plastic Rubbermaid tub with the most floor area you can find (not clear), and eventually build a tort table (wood box).

What type of water dish? Young hatchlings have a tricky time with water dishes so you need to make sure it is something she can actually safely and easily get in and out of. A bowl with stairs was all that worked for my little guy--the saucers, pain tray, and ramp bowls all were tough for him to use and thus he didn't try. Due to the travel and I assume she is young, I would soak in baby bath warm up to where the plasteron and carpace meet (the tortoise should not need to hold its head out of the water), for 10 minutes or so every day or every other day for a little bit, until you see she is using the water on her own. Some people's torts never want to use the water and the owners decide to do the "forced soak" as a routine. Dehydration due to stress and travel and her assumed small size is a potential problem, so I suggest at least soaking daily for a few days and then every other day for a week or two, whatever you think is appropriate, unless you see her using the water on her own. Tortoises do not expel urine until they can replenish their supply, so hydration is very important.

What is her night temperature? I would aim for 65-70. My hatchling would be awake maybe 8 hours a day, including naps. They do sleep a lot, but you need to see them eating and basking and moving a little every day.

I also suggest taking her to a vet for a check up for general health, a fecal test for parasites, and to generally establish her as a patient in case you have an emergency in the future. All tortoises carry parasites and when they are under times of stress (new homes), they can get populations of parasites that are out of control. Even with no symptoms and her being captive bred this can be a big problem. My hatchling Russian had both worms and coccidia in the first year of his life so I suggest this based on personal experience. The approximately $100 for a check up and fecal test is peace of mind at least, and protects your investment. I found that all the care and supplies for a tortoise far outweigh the actual purchase cost.

Best wishes and good luck! Hope to have any update soon. We love pictures.

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So glad to hear about the natural substrate. What kind and how deep? Make sure it doesn't have any pine or cedar. I suggest at least as deep as the tortoise is long, but the deeper the better. They like to burrow and that is a great wild behavior for them to duplicate in captivity. Hides are wonderful for hatchlings especially. So is anything that blocks the line of sight to make the enclosure look larger.

Side note: I recommend squashes no more than part of a meal once a week, and kale is a green that although great should be fed sparingly as it can cause goiter. I suggest a diet of organic spring mix (no spinach) for 50%, with a rotation of other greens such as the kale, mustard, collard, turnip, dandelion, any chemical-free garden weeds, etc. You can buy the spring mix plus 1-2 other greens a week and have a great variety. So great she is eating! You don't need to shop it unless you see her struggling with the greens. Feeding on a tile to wear down the beak and nails, and letting the tortoise work on tearing the food are natural things. I do grate any squashes though, but feed greens the size of spring mix leaves or even larger. The tort will learn to hold down the piece of green with an arm and tear at it. Unless the tort tries and walks away from food I wouldn't chop it up.