New Tortoise-New to Forum

[Joni]

I am the owner of 2 new baby Leopard Tortoise, Shellie and Shelbert.
Actually they are my son's. He bought them 2 weeks before he left for college and now mom takes care of them. I love them to bits but their care is challenging. Shelbert has been having problems and I belive it is constipation. When we go to the vet they say he is very healthy. However he only goes to the bathroom once every 7 days. During the week he acts like he is gasping and squeeks pushing his head way out. I fed him pumpkin by looking at this forum and he actually went that night and every day for 6 days after that. Now it has been 3 days again even though I have been giving him some pumpkin every other day or so. Is there such a thing as too much pumpkin.
I am new to this forum so I am learning how to use it. Hopefully, I am doing this right. Any feedback would be welcome.

 

[katesgoey]

Hi Joni! I have three Leopard tortoises, but I have not had experience with the symptoms you describe. Telling us more about how you have them set up, their diet, lighting, etc., will help give a clearer picture of what may be happening. If it weren't for your description of the gasing and squeeks, I would say not to worry since he went every day for 6 days and its only been 3 days since his last one....because it all depends on when, what and how much they are eating, lighting, temps, whether or not a fecal sample was tested, its results, etc. How old are Shellie and Shelbert? We love photos so I'm looking forward to you posting some when you get a chance. Welcome to the forum!!

 

[Joni]

Hi Joni! I have three Leopard tortoises, but I have not had experience with the symptoms you describe. Telling us more about how you have them set up, their diet, lighting, etc., will help give a clearer picture of what may be happening. If it weren't for your description of the gasing and squeeks, I would say not to worry since he went every day for 6 days and its only been 3 days since his last one....because it all depends on when, what and how much they are eating, lighting, temps, whether or not a fecal sample was tested, its results, etc. How old are Shellie and Shelbert? We love photos so I'm looking forward to you posting some when you get a chance. Welcome to the forum!!

Thanks for your reply. The torts are aprox. 9 mos. old. Shellie seems very indestructable. Nothing seems to bother her, however she is very independent and does not really interact much. Shelbert on the other hand seems to have issues and is very much interactive and seems to like when you are around him and handle him. My son and I are quite anal so we read all about them. They are housed in a terarium with a astroturf type substrate you buy in pet stores. The have access to clean water daily, they eat dark leafy greens, dandelion, spinich, kale, endive, red leaf lettuce...a good variety. I give them a tiny piece of strawberry once every 2-3 days because they really seem to love it. One side of their house has the regular UV lighting and kept at 80-95 degrees. The other side stays at around 70 degrees most of the time, no light. I change over to the red light at night and the temp hovers around 80. They have hay in there which I was hoping they would eat, but they just like to hide and burrow into it. They have places to hide like logs and such as well. I was taking them outside for exercise every day and they ate lots of clover, however we are in upstate New York and the weather is not condusive to this any longer. I try and take them out and just let them wander around in our game room to get exercise. I hydrate them every other day by setting them in shallow tepid water. Shelbert gets hydrated every day due to his issues and I read this helps constipation. It breaks my heart when he has these episodes because he really looks like he is in pain. Hope this helps.

 

[katesgoey]

Joni,

You may have seen this link before, if not, I really think you should have it as your "go to" resource: www.africantortoise.com. It has a list of edible foods as well as all the relevant information you need to care for Shellie and Shelbert (love those names BTW). I would ditch the spinach and reduce the strawberry to only a treat occasionally - every 2-3 days is alot IMO because they are built to eat mainly grasses, weeds and hay. I grow tortoise grazing seeds which I purchase from www.carolinapetsupply.com. After the seeds grow into sturdy weeds, I cut several for Moose - who is a yearling, closest in age to your two. I feed him a few of these along with Spring Mix (young lettuces, no spinach). I add a tiny pinch of calcium powder to that every other day - he also has a small piece of cuttlefish bone in his enclosure. I also have Moose on substrate that is a 70/30 blend of coconut coir and topsoil which I dampen when it get dry by mixing a glass or so of water in until it forms a clump but is not soggy. I prefer that to astroturf or other substrates, some Leopard keepers here use Aspen shavings.

You might have to try separating them to see if perhaps Shellie is bullying Shelbert which may cause him not to get as much to eat and may be why he likes it when you come and "rescue" him from her. Tortoises don't really need companions unless mating and bullying is common among them. If Shelbert improves after the separation then you know that was happening and they'll probably have to be permanently separated. I have to keep Tank separated from Bump because of it.

I'm sure someone with more experience than me may have other tips or observations to share, but I would encourage you especially in stopping the spinach and strawberry (fruit can upset their systems) and try separating them - at least at meal time - and see if there isn't some improvement in Shelbert. I hope this helps you in helping Shelbert. I'm hoping someone else can speak to his gasping and squeaking....they do make noises, but the description sounds like he's struggling to breath...is that what you meant? Have you noticed any bubbles coming from his nose?

Leopards are my favorite species and it sounds like Shellie and Shelbert have it made in your care. There is always a lot of learning, tweaking and relearning to do with these guys, but it is so rewarding. Looking forward to photos!

 

[Joni]

Joni,

You may have seen this link before, if not, I really think you should have it as your "go to" resource: www.africantortoise.com. It has a list of edible foods as well as all the relevant information you need to care for Shellie and Shelbert (love those names BTW). I would ditch the spinach and reduce the strawberry to only a treat occasionally - every 2-3 days is alot IMO because they are built to eat mainly grasses, weeds and hay. I grow tortoise grazing seeds which I purchase from www.carolinapetsupply.com. After the seeds grow into sturdy weeds, I cut several for Moose - who is a yearling, closest in age to your two. I feed him a few of these along with Spring Mix (young lettuces, no spinach). I add a tiny pinch of calcium powder to that every other day - he also has a small piece of cuttlefish bone in his enclosure. I also have Moose on substrate that is a 70/30 blend of coconut coir and topsoil which I dampen when it get dry by mixing a glass or so of water in until it forms a clump but is not soggy. I prefer that to astroturf or other substrates, some Leopard keepers here use Aspen shavings.

You might have to try separating them to see if perhaps Shellie is bullying Shelbert which may cause him not to get as much to eat and may be why he likes it when you come and "rescue" him from her. Tortoises don't really need companions unless mating and bullying is common among them. If Shelbert improves after the separation then you know that was happening and they'll probably have to be permanently separated. I have to keep Tank separated from Bump because of it.

I'm sure someone with more experience than me may have other tips or observations to share, but I would encourage you especially in stopping the spinach and strawberry (fruit can upset their systems) and try separating them - at least at meal time - and see if there isn't some improvement in Shelbert. I hope this helps you in helping Shelbert. I'm hoping someone else can speak to his gasping and squeaking....they do make noises, but the description sounds like he's struggling to breath...is that what you meant? Have you noticed any bubbles coming from his nose?

Leopards are my favorite species and it sounds like Shellie and Shelbert have it made in your care. There is always a lot of learning, tweaking and relearning to do with these guys, but it is so rewarding. Looking forward to photos!

Thanks for the help. I will take your advice and suggestions and give them a try. It is hard for me to believe Shellie is bullying Shelbert. I have never seen that at all. In fact they like to sleep next to eachother most of the time face to face and they seem to love eachother. However, I am not home all day. Also, it does appear Shelbert is having trouble breathing when he has his episodes. However according to the vet there is no sign of respiratory issues. It really appears to me he is struggling to bo to the bathroom. I appreciate all your help and will definately stop the fruite and spinach and check out those other sites.

 

[Yvonne G]

Just as in humans, dehydration and constipation go hand in hand. How often do you soak your babies?

Keeping baby tortoises warm, lights shining on them, heat emitters hanging over the habitat...all of this means you have your babies on slow-cook. So I recommend soaking babies at least three times a week. Daily would even be ok.

Yvonne

 

[Joni]

Just as in humans, dehydration and constipation go hand in hand. How often do you soak your babies?

Keeping baby tortoises warm, lights shining on them, heat emitters hanging over the habitat...all of this means you have your babies on slow-cook. So I recommend soaking babies at least three times a week. Daily would even be ok.

Yvonne

I soak Shellie every other day an Shelbert every day since he is my problem child.
This is a work in progress......Thanks for the input.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Welcome Joni...I belong to a tortoise list that is strictly dedicated to Sulcata and Leopard tortoises. I don't keep Leo's but I read there that they don't poop as often as other tortoises. Also, torts breathe kind of like a bellows, so their arms would go in and out and that makes their lungs go in and out. So it's quite possible that he is not having trouble breathing at all...he's just a little more obvious about it then the other tort. Is there a reason you think he is constipated and not just pooping normally for him? Just like each human has a schedule pooping different from another human, each tortoise's schedule is different from another...does that make sense???
I suggest that you get rid of that carpet stuff and put in a good substrate that you can use to create humidity for them and they can burrow down into it as they would do in the wild...

 

[Joni]

Welcome Joni...I belong to a tortoise list that is strictly dedicated to Sulcata and Leopard tortoises. I don't keep Leo's but I read there that they don't poop as often as other tortoises. Also, torts breathe kind of like a bellows, so their arms would go in and out and that makes their lungs go in and out. So it's quite possible that he is not having trouble breathing at all...he's just a little more obvious about it then the other tort. Is there a reason you think he is constipated and not just pooping normally for him? Just like each human has a schedule pooping different from another human, each tortoise's schedule is different from another...does that make sense???
I suggest that you get rid of that carpet stuff and put in a good substrate that you can use to create humidity for them and they can burrow down into it as they would do in the wild...

Shellie poops daily. Shelbert (the problem one) definatley has something going on. I know what you mean about the breathing and their leggs moving up and down. This is dramatic. You know he is in distress. His head comes out almost frantically and he opens his mouth as far as he can and makes a squeeking and gasping sound. When he is
in this state, he just sits and he looks very ill. It may not be consitpation at all, however no vet or anyone can tell me different. Once I fed him the pumpkin for the first time he was regular for a week. But for the past few days he has not gone, even though I have given him pumpkin. I will definately, try as different substrate. Any suggestions. I thought humidity was not good for Leopards?

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Here again I must say that I don't keep Leopards. But I am experienced with tortoises and so I can give general knowledge about some species. Too much humidity IS bad for Leopards, but they do need some to help prevent pyramiding.
I would change that carpet for a better substrate. My favorite is cypress mulch and orchid bark, that's what I keep all of my 27 turtles and tortoises on. Many experienced keepers also use coir and play sand. I think that's the most popular. You can get that at any pet store. Cypress mulch comes in small (8 quarts) bags and costs an arm and half a leg. Orchid bark is good and can be found at Orchard hardware supply and some of the big box stores. Get fine grade if you use that.
I keep my Sulcata at about 80% humidity and if I had a Leopard I would probably keep them at 40 or 50%. But I'm sure Danny will correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Yvonne G]

I sounds to me as if your little guy is suffering from an upper respiratory infection. They normally breathe though their nose, and when their nares are plugged up with mucous they can't breathe...hence the occasional gasp. They're not conditioned to always keep their mouth open to breathe. It would be prudent to go to a vet ASAP. Upper respiratory infections can be treated successfully if caught in time.

Yvonne

 

[Joni]

Here again I must say that I don't keep Leopards. But I am experienced with tortoises and so I can give general knowledge about some species. Too much humidity IS bad for Leopards, but they do need some to help prevent pyramiding.
I would change that carpet for a better substrate. My favorite is cypress mulch and orchid bark, that's what I keep all of my 27 turtles and tortoises on. Many experienced keepers also use coir and play sand. I think that's the most popular. You can get that at any pet store. Cypress mulch comes in small (8 quarts) bags and costs an arm and half a leg. Orchid bark is good and can be found at Orchard hardware supply and some of the big box stores. Get fine grade if you use that.
I keep my Sulcata at about 80% humidity and if I had a Leopard I would probably keep them at 40 or 50%. But I'm sure Danny will correct me if I'm wrong.

Thank you.

 

[Crazy1]

Also Joni, while at the vet you may want to have them check for a urinary tract stone. when he poos does he have any white matter mixed in with it? These are urates and if he has become dehydrated they can turn into a stone. Just an FYI. And so you know I do not have Leo's.

Oh and welcome to the forum.

 

[egyptiandan]

Welcome to the forum

I agree with Yvonne it sounds like your one Leopard has a respiratory infection. I'm thinking a lower respiratory infection as he/she is gasping to breath.

I also agree with Robyn, that it's very possible (with your former diet) that he/she could have a stone. This will cause just as many problems as the RI.

A good tortoise vet is what you need to find ASAP.

You did good Maggie no getting after you

Danny

 

[katesgoey]

Joni,

The responses you've received after mine are from some of the most experienced keepers and the ones I depend on too, so you have a lot of great support in caring for your leopards. I know it may not seem like Shellie is bullying him, but it isn't always apparent - and it may not be happening, but it is something to consider. I asked if you've seen bubbles from Shelbert because that would be another indication of a possible upper respiratory infection so getting another vet's opinion, I think, is imperative. Keep us posted.

Just wanted to add that I tried the coir/sand mixture with Bump and didn't care for it. I used Aspen instead and it was okay, but hard to maintain any humidity. I like the coir/topsoil substrate the best because it helps me control the humidity and is more natural when he's in his outdoor enclosure. I haven't had another species so I can't compare, but none of my Leopards have pooped every single day so as long as there is some healthy pooping going on every week or so, I don't panic about it. When they do, it's healthy in looks and amount (a nice little pile or grouping)