Not enough exposure to sunlight?

[zolasmum]

Hello there! Happy late birthday to your tort!

I was told from Pippi's previous owner that strawberries are her favourite food, and I am aware that they provide little nutritional value so I only feed them as an occasional treat. I will now hold back on feeding them to her altogether, as after doing some research I found that you are right.

She was climbing up the patio steps in that image (I don't know why she does it, the lawn is much more appealing for a tortoise), and she likes using those cracks as a foothold. They usually fill up with moss and weeds in their own time, and I think that the angle the picture was taken from made them look smaller than they are. I always monitor her when she is climbing in case she takes a tumble, so if she gets her claws stuck I'll be there to help her.

I have not currently got any designated toys for her in case it was too overwhelming while she was settling in, but now I'll be sure to buy her a little red ball to stuff with food :')

Yes, it's a real shame about strawberries - Zola used to love bits of them, until we learned better.! Your idea of a red ball with food in sounds very appetising ! I think Pippi may have been attracted to the red plant pot on your steps.
Angie

 

[wellington]

There really are no premade enclosures that are big enough except a pop up green house for inside. They do make good enclosures, are inexpensive and many to choose from. Many members including me have used them.
Otherwise you are best to build your own. For outside you could also use a pop up green house however they do block uvb so there would have to be outside of the green house area.
Others have used 2x6x? Whatever length attach them together to make a good size rectangle enclosure and placed chicken wire of it to keep out birds/varmits.

 

[Tom]

Hello all, I have a bit of a problem and wanted to get your advice.

My 6 year old tortoise, Pippi, spends most of her time outdoors, only coming inside at night. She has a run that she is put in when she cannot be supervised that is half indoors (filled with hay), and half on the lawn so she can wander around. I have noticed that when she is done eating her breakfast she immediately goes back inside her sheltered area, where she either sleeps or stares out of the entrance. She is inside her run from 7:30am to 4:00pm, and gets to free roam the garden for about two hours a day. I would let her roam the garden more often, unsupervised, but I would hate for her to get caught by a predator or otherwise harmed.

During the time when she roams the garden, she gets sufficient sunlight, but for the majority of the day she does not appear to bask in her run. According to the internet, she needs 12 hours a day of UVB light, which I am afraid she is not receiving.

Pippi was given to me from a friend of a friend, and I have only had her for a few weeks. She shows signs of mild pyramiding, which can be prevented with more UVB light, which is why I am asking you for advice on the matter. Further info on her living conditions can be provided if needed.

Hello and welcome.

D3 production happens fairly quickly in warmed tortoise skin. They don't need much UV to get the job done. Incidental walking around with access to sunshine for a couple hours, once or twice a week will get the job done. Indoors, I only run UV bulbs for 2-3 hours mi day. Which reminds me, there is almost no UV in morning or evening sun. UV levels spike mid day outside. Use this knowledge to time your outdoor sunning sessions. You can also use a calcium supplement with added D3 to ensure your tortoise is getting all that it needs.

As Tammy mentioned, pyramiding is caused by growth in conditions that are too dry. Pyramiding has nothing to do with UVB. The internet is full of all sorts of wrong info. Pets shops and vets aren't much better, and all of the above get their info from the same wrong sources.

Here is the correct care info for your species:

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

And I agree about no fruit.

Questions are welcome!

 

[Second Hand Tortoise]

Thanks so much. I will definitely check out the pop up green houses. Sounds like a great idea!

There really are no premade enclosures that are big enough except a pop up green house for inside. They do make good enclosures, are inexpensive and many to choose from. Many members including me have used them.
Otherwise you are best to build your own. For outside you could also use a pop up green house however they do block uvb so there would have to be outside of the green house area.
Others have used 2x6x? Whatever length attach them together to make a good size rectangle enclosure and placed chicken wire of it to keep out birds/varmits.

 

[Second Hand Tortoise]

Hello and welcome.

D3 production happens fairly quickly in warmed tortoise skin. They don't need much UV to get the job done. Incidental walking around with access to sunshine for a couple hours, once or twice a week will get the job done. Indoors, I only run UV bulbs for 2-3 hours mi day. Which reminds me, there is almost no UV in morning or evening sun. UV levels spike mid day outside. Use this knowledge to time your outdoor sunning sessions. You can also use a calcium supplement with added D3 to ensure your tortoise is getting all that it needs.

As Tammy mentioned, pyramiding is caused by growth in conditions that are too dry. Pyramiding has nothing to do with UVB. The internet is full of all sorts of wrong info. Pets shops and vets aren't much better, and all of the above get their info from the same wrong sources.

Here is the correct care info for your species:

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

And I agree about no fruit.

Questions are welcome!

Thanks! In that case, Pippi is getting more than enough UV.

Quick question: I currently keep Pippi in a tortoise table for her indoor enclosure. As pyramiding is caused by lack of humidity, I want to prevent further pyramiding from forming. Do you have any ideas on how to keep a tortoise table sufficiently humid? I currently use coconut fibre substrate.

 

[Maro2Bear]

Greetings. The only real way to increase & maintain increased humidity in a tortoise table is to make it fully enclosed, including the all important lid. You can use the best substrate & spray down the area all you want, but in the end you need to have all sides enclosed. Good luck

 

[zolasmum]

Greetings. The only real way to increase & maintain increased humidity in a tortoise table is to make it fully enclosed, including the all important lid. You can use the best substrate & spray down the area all you want, but in the end you need to have all sides enclosed. Good luck

Thanks! In that case, Pippi is getting more than enough UV.

Quick question: I currently keep Pippi in a tortoise table for her indoor enclosure. As pyramiding is caused by lack of humidity, I want to prevent further pyramiding from forming. Do you have any ideas on how to keep a tortoise table sufficiently humid? I currently use coconut fibre substrate.

If you can make a basic tent-like frame-work over your table. well above the lights, you can get clear plastic sheet from a garden centre or builders depot, which you can drape over the frame work to enclose the table, leaving an area fairly loose so you can lift up the flap when you want to get Pippi or put food inside etc. I think that would work perfectly well, and you would be able to see what Pippi was doing.Just keep it away from any heat, as it would melt
Angie

 

[Second Hand Tortoise]

Greetings. The only real way to increase & maintain increased humidity in a tortoise table is to make it fully enclosed, including the all important lid. You can use the best substrate & spray down the area all you want, but in the end you need to have all sides enclosed. Good luck

Thank you, I'll probably use Angie's idea of making a tent-like structure. This really helps! Thanks!

 

[Second Hand Tortoise]

If you can make a basic tent-like frame-work over your table. well above the lights, you can get clear plastic sheet from a garden centre or builders depot, which you can drape over the frame work to enclose the table, leaving an area fairly loose so you can lift up the flap when you want to get Pippi or put food inside etc. I think that would work perfectly well, and you would be able to see what Pippi was doing.Just keep it away from any heat, as it would melt
Angie

Ok, I will find sufficient material. Thank you!

 

[MenagerieGrl]

Just be careful to keep ANY material away, from hot CHE, or Hot lights...

 

[Tom]

Thanks! In that case, Pippi is getting more than enough UV.

Quick question: I currently keep Pippi in a tortoise table for her indoor enclosure. As pyramiding is caused by lack of humidity, I want to prevent further pyramiding from forming. Do you have any ideas on how to keep a tortoise table sufficiently humid? I currently use coconut fibre substrate.

Trying to heat and humidify an open topped enclosure is like trying to heat your house in winter with no roof on it. It doesn't work. The best solution for our tortoises is a large closed chamber. Aka: "vivarium" in your part of the world. The standard store bought ones are much too small, but there are companies that custom make larger ones in the UK for a reasonable price too. The "tenting" idea helps hold in some humidity, but it doesn't do as much for heat retention.

If your tortoise is already near adult size, then none of this will make much difference. If your tortoise is only half grown, then this can all help the new growth come in smoother.

A basic humid hide helps too, even with an open topped enclosure.

Its important to use the correct lighting too:
There are four elements to heating and lighting:

1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. In most cases you'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night. Some people in colder climates or with larger enclosures will need multiple CHEs or RHPs to spread out enough heat.
3. Ambient light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in LED bulb types are both fine.
4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In colder climates, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12% HO bulbs from Arcadia. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html A good UV bulb only needs to run for 2-3 hours mid day. You need the basking bulb and the ambient lighting to be on at least 12 hours a day.

Its also important to note that in your Northern latitude, the outdoor UV rays are relatively weak most of the year. This makes using the correct UV indoors much more important than for someone who lives near the equator.

 

[Second Hand Tortoise]

Trying to heat and humidify an open topped enclosure is like trying to heat your house in winter with no roof on it. It doesn't work. The best solution for our tortoises is a large closed chamber. Aka: "vivarium" in your part of the world. The standard store bought ones are much too small, but there are companies that custom make larger ones in the UK for a reasonable price too. The "tenting" idea helps hold in some humidity, but it doesn't do as much for heat retention.

If your tortoise is already near adult size, then none of this will make much difference. If your tortoise is only half grown, then this can all help the new growth come in smoother.

A basic humid hide helps too, even with an open topped enclosure.

Its important to use the correct lighting too:
There are four elements to heating and lighting:

1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. In most cases you'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night. Some people in colder climates or with larger enclosures will need multiple CHEs or RHPs to spread out enough heat.
3. Ambient light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in LED bulb types are both fine.
4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In colder climates, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12% HO bulbs from Arcadia. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html A good UV bulb only needs to run for 2-3 hours mid day. You need the basking bulb and the ambient lighting to be on at least 12 hours a day.

Its also important to note that in your Northern latitude, the outdoor UV rays are relatively weak most of the year. This makes using the correct UV indoors much more important than for someone who lives near the equator.

Ok, thanks for the info. I'll be sure to cover her current enclosure and switch to a vivarium at some point. I believe Pippi is getting enough UV and heat at the moment thanks to the current heatwave, but in the colder months when she is not hibernating I will provide an artificial source of it.

I currently have a mercury vapour bulb that is quite dodgy and I am not sure how well it works, or if it works at all, so I am going to buy a new one and splash out a bit more to ensure I get a good quality one. Before I do: do you recommend mercury vapour bulbs, or should I get a UV strip and basking bulb separately, instead?

P.s. The link you sent is currently not working for me, I'll try again later

 

[Tom]

Ok, thanks for the info. I'll be sure to cover her current enclosure and switch to a vivarium at some point. I believe Pippi is getting enough UV and heat at the moment thanks to the current heatwave, but in the colder months when she is not hibernating I will provide an artificial source of it.

I currently have a mercury vapour bulb that is quite dodgy and I am not sure how well it works, or if it works at all, so I am going to buy a new one and splash out a bit more to ensure I get a good quality one. Before I do: do you recommend mercury vapour bulbs, or should I get a UV strip and basking bulb separately, instead?

P.s. The link you sent is currently not working for me, I'll try again later

You are welcome!

No mercury vapor bulbs. Dodgy is a good word for them. They make tortoises pyramid and their UV output can vary from way too much to none at all. See the heating and lighting breakdown that I left above. No MVBs there.

Good luck going forward! I hope you find a great closed chamber. I can never remember the name of the maker...

 

[MenagerieGrl]

Tom, doesn't @Markw84 make enclosure/vivariums?

 

[Markw84]

Tom, doesn't @Markw84 make enclosure/vivariums?

Thanks for the mention, but I do not ship internationally. Shipping within the US is enough of a mess now!!

 

[MenagerieGrl]

Thanks for the mention, but I do not ship internationally. Shipping within the US is enough of a mess now!!

Sorry, Mark, I was not aware of that, I will make note of it.
I heard nothing but good remarks about your work, so I Just thought I'd spread it around... 😉

 

[Second Hand Tortoise]

You are welcome!

No mercury vapor bulbs. Dodgy is a good word for them. They make tortoises pyramid and their UV output can vary from way too much to none at all. See the heating and lighting breakdown that I left above. No MVBs there.

Good luck going forward! I hope you find a great closed chamber. I can never remember the name of the maker...

Got it, no MVBs for Pippi. Thank you for your support! This forum has helped me learn a lot, even in the short time I have been on it.

 

[Tom]

Got it, no MVBs for Pippi. Thank you for your support! This forum has helped me learn a lot, even in the short time I have been on it.

I'm glad the info helps. When someone asks a questions I tend to answer it quickly and bluntly without a lot of frills. Saves time in my busy day. But please feel free to ask for more info or a better explanation whenever you want. You don't have to believe any of this just because someone here says so. You will get different info here than you will from most other sources, and there is are good reasons for that.