opinion on housing & humidity

[Rayvens3cubs]

So, now that Arthur is staying on here permanently, we are deciding on how to go about permanent housing. I've seen a lot of varying information that has left me a bit confused.

My options :

55 gallon aquarium (48"L x 12"W x 19.5") -----
PROS:
more "walking" space because it's longer
can provide deeper substrate because it's so tall
glass can help keep in moisture/humidity
Possibly safer than plastic with use of lights & heatlamps, I could even suspend the lights so they are actually inside the tank if necessary.....
Due to a family of cats/dogs, the glass might be safer and more sturdy, and might provide more "privacy" from the sights/smells of the animals. maybe?
CONS:
The sides are so high, that it would need to be kept directly on the floor so the kids could reach him comfortably for handling, tank cleaning, etc....also finding a table to hold it would be more difficult, and the stand we have would make it inaccessibly high.
Glass might hold in TOO MUCH heat & humidity (?)
Privacy will have to be added to the glass (something along the front?)
Narrow tank doesn't provide much roaming space, other than lengthwise.
Narrow tank doesn't allow very wide hides, water trays, etc while still allowing space to maneuver past them........
**I've heard glass aquariums can be detrimental to their health, due to the glass holding in airflow, but I've ALSO seen people recommending closed chambers TO HOLD IN THE HUMIDITY on purpose (with no added airflow or anything!) so I'm really confused on whether the humidity factor is actually good or bad...........

2nd option is a cage with a plastic tray on the bottom
cage is 34"L x 16.75"w x 12" h and is made of coated wire shelving so it's pretty sturdy.
PROS:
Better airflow
less humidity
smaller size so it will be easier to find a table space for it
smaller height so it will be okay to HAVE it up higher and still be easy to access and clean.
wider space for more room to maneuver (vs the 12"w 55gal tank)
Sturdier top than a screened top of a 55gal tank for better safety from curious kitties.
Lights could be set right on top of the cage, instead of suspended over the tank or in the tank? (is this safe with the coated shelving??????)
CONS:
Smaller space than the 55 gal (total sq in. space), and less height so substrate can't be as deep
less "long" roaming space
less humidity (if this is a bad thing, still confused on this point)
more open to the outside, which may scare him more with less privacy and more likely to have other cats/dogs up close to the cage.......
harder to contain substrate mess, as stuff can be kicked over the edge of the tray.

 

[Yvonne G]

I'm too lazy to go back and get more info on Albert. Is he an older tortoise or a very young one?

An older tortoise doesn't need the same high humidity that a baby does. But an older tortoise will be pretty unhappy in a small habitat. They do much better outside. Then when the weather gets too cold for outside, a large, very large indoor habitat with lots of sight barriers will keep him busy.

 

[Rayvens3cubs]

Grrr.... Over half my post didn't show up! Not sure why, but oh well. We decided to go with the large tote box option anyway, but my question about humidity still stands:

How important is humidity with an almost-adult Russian Tortoise? He's about 4.5" long so he's not a baby-baby........

I've seen a ton of conflicting information and I'm still really confused on this point. Should the substrate be damp or dry? Should I mix in sand with the coconut-coir stuff to help dry it out? Should I keep the cage entirely closed in to promote high humidity levels or should I worry about more airflow, oxygen, and so forth?

Can someone give me a more definitive answer on humidity NEEDS for a Russian? Thanks ~ Ann

 

[Blondeangel]

To give you another possible option....my Russian lives outside on the patio in a 120 gallon rubbermaid-type tub....he spends the majority of his day out of it so its mainly used for munching on a salad or sleeping....but its wide, deep and high....the entire set up probably cost me $50 bucks.
I don't have heat on it because well....its South Florida and its naturally 95 out everyday and 85 every night haha, and he gets his natural sunlight everyday but it combines both of your pro's into one workable habitat

 

[Rayvens3cubs]

~ Arthur is our stray Russian Tortoise who showed up on our neighbor’s doorstep. We were unable to locate an owner so he is staying on permanently.

~ He is about 4.5” long so he’s not a baby, but I still want to provide as close to best as I am able. Unfortunately, we are limited on space, and limited on location due to having a dog and 4 cats, so we can’t just have a giant, open enclosure or anything. Plus, we home school and have a variety of creatures here already using up a lot of space, so we’re also trying to play the “where will this tank fit” puzzle-game….lol.
Come summer, he WILL have an outdoor enclosure, as our aquatic turtles do, but Russians need heat, more than humidity, correct? It’s already getting cold, even during the day on some days here in West Michigan, and since this wasn’t a planned addition, it’s all being done on short notice and if he’s already stressed, I don’t want to push it with keeping him outside in colder temps right from the start.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Ann:

Your tortoise doesn't need humidity. He'll do fine on a drier substrate with water available. The humidity issue is for growing babies, so that the supple new growth between the scutes is kept soft and pliable and grows smoothly.

 

[Rayvens3cubs]

Blondeangel : Could he stay in that size box all winter okay? I mean, he will get out (indoors) and get exercise and such with the kids, but it's already getting awfully cold here, and then we'll have snow.......so obviously outdoors is out of the question until spring (other than for a bit on a nice day) I know a box that size isn't "ideal", as in, the best possible luxury accomodations, but it might be the best we can do right now (other than the 55gal tank, which is much longer but really narrow).

I've got to work on hubby.......... we have a train table we no longer have a use for, and if I can come up with a way to make double use of it (flip it over and add sides, and a top - using the top as another table or something with the tortoise underneath it) then maybe I can convince him to let me use that much space on the one tortoise cage. Keeping fingers crossed.........might have to be a Christmas present to the kids

---

Thank you Emysemys, that was a helpful answer

 

[Blondeangel]

I honestly don't see why seasonally he couldn't. I wanted depth because I used to use topsoil from lowes and my Russian was a huge digger therefore making a huge dirt mess all over the floor. If your's isn't a digger like that you can use a lower under the bed storage container....that would allow for a lot more floor space (but only like 5-7 inch sides). If you used something that low you could make a cut out of the lid so its open but still has a rim around the edges to avoid climbing out. My Russian originally lived in the bottom pan of an old guinea pig cage (no wire top) and never tried to escape but from what I've heard they are big escape artists

 

[lynnedit]

Train table with sides sounds really good. Line it with pond or shower pan liner up the sides and you are good to go!
Welcome to looking at everything you own as a potential tortoise enclosure, lol!
If not, then a tote works. Before I had anything else, I stuck two 55 gal totes together and cut a door between them. Had to do a bit of rim removal and trimming, and use styrofoam between the totes at the opening, with duct tape, but it worked well and they liked walking from one to the other.
If you have to use the aquarium, make sure it has cardboard or some kind of sight block so they don't continually try to get out, but they are just not ideal, especially the higher walled ones.
Good luck convincing...

 

[Ashliewood]

To give you another possible option....my Russian lives outside on the patio in a 120 gallon rubbermaid-type tub....he spends the majority of his day out of it so its mainly used for munching on a salad or sleeping....but its wide, deep and high....the entire set up probably cost me $50 bucks.
I don't have heat on it because well....its South Florida and its naturally 95 out everyday and 85 every night haha, and he gets his natural sunlight everyday but it combines both of your pro's into one workable habitat

I'm wondering where you found that large of a tub?

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

Russians are one of those tortoise species that come from a semi-arid natural habitat, so they don't need high humidity. Actually, they prefer lower humidity levels (20-40%). However, like all tortoises they do seek a humid microhabitat, i.e. a burrow that they dig in a relatively moist substrate, whose humidity level is a bit higher, around 50-60%.

 

[Rayvens3cubs]

Train table with sides sounds really good. Line it with pond or shower pan liner up the sides and you are good to go!
Welcome to looking at everything you own as a potential tortoise enclosure, lol!

~ LOL.... I already do that with urban gardening & seed starting I'm doubly in for it now!

If not, then a tote works. Before I had anything else, I stuck two 55 gal totes together and cut a door between them. Had to do a bit of rim removal and trimming, and use styrofoam between the totes at the opening, with duct tape, but it worked well and they liked walking from one to the other.
If you have to use the aquarium, make sure it has cardboard or some kind of sight block so they don't continually try to get out, but they are just not ideal, especially the higher walled ones.

~ The walls of the tote are SORT OF clear, but fuzzy. I wrapped some heavy, ribbed plastic shelf paper around 3 sides that he totally cannot see through but still lets some minor light through (I've got sheets over the windows in that room anyway, to prevent algae in the aquariums without chemical useage so it won't be too bright) and he doesn't seem too bothered by the one side being fuzzy, but viewable. The kids really like being able to see him a bit from one side, but do you think having the one side not COMPLETELY covered will stress him over time?? It seems to be the side he prefers burrowing on, so how stressful could it really be..?


Good luck convincing...

~ Yeah, I'll need it. He's getting wise to my tricks....it's how we ended up with a housefull of animals in the first place Anyone have any suggestions for fantastic, unargueable (sp?) double uses for an upside down table with a top over it and the tortoise inside?

---

Russians are one of those tortoise species that come from a semi-arid natural habitat, so they don't need high humidity. Actually, they prefer lower humidity levels (20-40%). However, like all tortoises they do seek a humid microhabitat, i.e. a burrow that they dig in a relatively moist substrate, whose humidity level is a bit higher, around 50-60%.

~ GeoTerraTestudo : I'm using the Eco-earth, coconut-coir stuff for the substrate, and since we used water to rehydrate the blocks (squeezed out extra water so it's not WET, just damp) do you think that will keep it "humid" enough when he digs down? Even if he isn't completely underground?

 

[lynnedit]

If he is not trying to constantly get out of the sides, then they are opaque enough. and the coir is a great substrate, if moist underneath, then that is plenty humid for him, even if his hiney is sticking out. Piling it up a bit higher,even 6-8" on one side allows for burrowing.
Can't think if a convincing reason for using the table except that your tort NEEDS it, lol

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

~ GeoTerraTestudo : I'm using the Eco-earth, coconut-coir stuff for the substrate, and since we used water to rehydrate the blocks (squeezed out extra water so it's not WET, just damp) do you think that will keep it "humid" enough when he digs down? Even if he isn't completely underground?

That's what I've got for my two, and I think it's the best thing for a Russian tortoise. They walk around on it when they want to be active, but can dig down into it when they want to burrow, and the layers beneath the surface provide humidity. Very much like the sandy soil substrate they would encounter in the wild, but without the fungi, insects, or gut compaction risk in captivity. So, good choice.

Note: The coco coir substrate I provided for my tortoises is about half a foot deep, and they really like to dig down into it, completely concealing themselves in the substrate. Up at the surface, the humidity is around 40%, and below the surface it's probably about 20% higher than that, which is just the kind of ambient/micro-habitat difference a Russian tortoise needs. You said your tortoise is not completely underground; are you sure his substrate is deep enough? If not, then obviously he will hit the bottom and be able to go no further. So, I'd say you have the right substrate, but if it's not deep enough, then the tortoise may have some trouble getting as comfortable as possible.