Pictures inside yellow bumps

mastershake

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i will have the pcr test results very soon. i did run those pics by a handful of people i know at a 3 different labs and they all said as soon as they saw them that is not strep. and it is showing as something similar to what we are seeing on the upper layers but it is not strep, staph, nor myco. and yes myco is not easy but with this (if its the same) myco was ruled out already. all i can say so far is this is A VERY invasive bacteria. i was asked not to post to much until i have results in hand but its VERY... VERY... VERY invasive (words direct from the lab). i again mean no offense at all but 3 VERY qualified people said not strep
 

mastershake

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again not to offend at all but a culture is not pcr testing and i really do not think he has the equipment to do that there in house. maybe im wrong.
 

zovick

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i will have the pcr test results very soon. i did run those pics by a handful of people i know at a 3 different labs and they all said as soon as they saw them that is not strep. and it is showing as something similar to what we are seeing on the upper layers but it is not strep, staph, nor myco. and yes myco is not easy but with this (if its the same) myco was ruled out already. all i can say so far is this is A VERY invasive bacteria. i was asked not to post to much until i have results in hand but its VERY... VERY... VERY invasive (words direct from the lab). i again mean no offense at all but 3 VERY qualified people said not strep
What are the other possible culprits the lab has mentioned so far? It sounds as though you are being extremely cryptic for some reason which I cannot understand (unless this bacteria is on the USDA list of reportable pathogens). Hopefully that is not the case, but all the apparent secrecy is making me wonder.
 

mastershake

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because im being asked to by the lab till the final results come in i wasnt even really supposed to say as much as i did (i heard about that a bit) and i dont want to burn bridges with them since we use them often here for cases and they are one of the best there is for this type of thing. they know many cases are being posted here and i think may be following along a bit. and im the only one besides them involved in this. so then it comes back to me.
 

zovick

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because im being asked to by the lab till the final results come in i wasnt even really supposed to say as much as i did (i heard about that a bit)
So it may very well be that this IS a reportable pathogen as I interpret those instructions given to you by the lab.
 

mastershake

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i have not been told it is yet, but they are def being careful as to what is said so far. i was told it was narrowed down to a very few on the list. which is why more testing is being done. i think its more this is something that i dont think has been seen like this before in this species.
 
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zovick

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i have not been told it is yet, but they are def being careful as to what is said so far. i was told it was narrowed down to a very few on the list. which is why more testing is being done. i think its more this is something that i dont think has been seen like this before in this species.
Well, back in 2003, I had a tortoise (which I was quarantining because I had just recently received it after it was seized by USFWS while being smuggled into the US) die for no apparent reason and sent it the the Bronx Zoo for a necropsy. Several days later, I was contacted by the vets at the Zoo saying the tortoise had been cultured and a reportable pathogen had been found and that therefore I would be getting contacted by a government agency (I think it was USDA, but not 100% sure now).

I had to fill out a number of forms plus provide proof that no other tortoises had been exposed to the deceased one, etc. If this yellow bump thing turns out to be one of those pathogens, it could be a real nightmare for the lay people who have had these animals get sick and die. I can even foresee certain scenarios where animals might be confiscated to prevent further spread of the bacterium.
 

mastershake

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thats all part of why we are doing SO MUCH testing right now. i mean they are running this through the whole entire lab worth of testing. its also why we need more randomized samples to be able to say when you see this.... this is what they have if you know what i mean
 

mark1

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the advantage of pcr over a culture is it's quicker , you've been posting about these yellow bumps for 2 months , what lab is this ? when i was a little kid a friend of mine told me his aunt was going to give me a galapagos tortoise , i believed him ..... i've still not gotten it .......
 

mastershake

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actual testing started about three weeks ago. the original sample was no good to test so i had to wait for someone else to send one. trying to get people to send them in even after they pass has not been easy to get them to do no one wants to do that it seems. this is the lab at UF in florida, and also why i keep asking for samples. it would have went much quicker if we cold have had more of them but no one wants to help by sending them in.
 

mark1

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the other advantage of pcr is you need very little sample ......
 

mastershake

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the first one was placed in the freezer and the person did not tell me that. it ruined the sample another one i sent a label to the person and they didnt ship it for like 10 days and it was not able to be used either. he responded to that one " Even refrigerated, a week will be associated with severe autolysis. 2-3 days max is what we are ideally looking for. There will be significant bacterial overgrowth that will complicate the findings. " so it has been proving challenging. and as said they want to be sure what one has is the same that we are seeing in multiple samples. that its not just a one off and all the others have something different.
 
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Pastel Tortie

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Well, back in 2003, I had a tortoise (which I was quarantining because I had just recently received it after it was seized by USFWS while being smuggled into the US) die for no apparent reason and sent it the the Bronx Zoo for a necropsy. Several days later, I was contacted by the vets at the Zoo saying the tortoise had been cultured and a reportable pathogen had been found and that therefore I would be getting contacted by a government agency (I think it was USDA, but not 100% sure now).

I had to fill out a number of forms plus provide proof that no other tortoises had been exposed to the deceased one, etc. If this yellow bump thing turns out to be one of those pathogens, it could be a real nightmare for the lay people who have had these animals get sick and die. I can even foresee certain scenarios where animals might be confiscated to prevent further spread of the bacterium.
Do you remember which pathogen it was?
 

zovick

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Do you remember which pathogen it was?
Not offhand. I looked back in my files for the Bronx Zoo necropsy report, but it didn't specify the exact pathogen. Haven't found the stuff from the government (yet) which did name it.
 

Pastel Tortie

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Not offhand. I looked back in my files for the Bronx Zoo necropsy report, but it didn't specify the exact pathogen. Haven't found the stuff from the government (yet) which did name it.
I was curious. I used to work for the state agency in Florida that deals with animal disease control in livestock and other animals.

With what you encountered in 2003, it sounds like USDA may have been concerned about a foreign animal disease. Animal imports are generally considered higher risk because there's no telling what may be coming in with them (inside the animal, on the animal, in the packing material, etc.).
 

zovick

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@Pastel Tortie @mastershake

The bacteria which was found in the confiscated tortoise that I had was cultured from inside its body cavity. To the best of my recollection, it was a bacteria which had been classified for possible use in germ warfare on humans rather than a run of the mill animal disease. Still looking for the original paperwork.

It sounds as though this may be something similar from all the apparent secrecy.
 

Pastel Tortie

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@Pastel Tortie @mastershake

The bacteria which was found in the confiscated tortoise that I had was cultured from inside its body cavity. To the best of my recollection, it was a bacteria which had been classified for possible use in germ warfare on humans rather than a run of the mill animal disease. Still looking for the original paperwork.
So it was zoonotic?
 

zovick

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So it was zoonotic?
That was the impression I got from all the to do about it. When I looked up the name, it was a bacteria whose presence in a tortoise was extremely surprising, at least to me. The bacteria was known from mainland Africa and the tortoise was from Madagascar, and tortoises were not a known vector at that time to the best of my recollection.

Heck, maybe this pathogen causing the yellow bumps will be the same one. Wish I could recall the name.
 
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