Please help, Indian star leg swollen

[Lesa]

A few weeks ago I noticed my star was walking funny. Like her legs were weaker and maybe having trouble with her coordination. The back two legs appeared to be pushing off the ground fine. On the front legs both working but not lifting her up as high as normal. More of a side to side motion if that makes sense. All four limbs are working and if you softly pull on them you do get resistance but to me just seemed weaker and a little unsteady.

The only thing that had happened was I woke up one morning and she was asleep on top of her food. It was a mix of mazuri and rep-cal that I had forgotten to take away before I fell asleep. She was stuck to it. I guess the water plus heat and humidity had turned it into a paste. I have no idea how long she might have been stuck in her food. I gave her a good long soak and she seemed fine. A couple of days later is when I noticed the funny walking. I thought maybe she had pulled a muscle trying to get out of the food.

I took her to the second vet listed in my town as an exotic vet who treats tortoises. The number one vet killed my little leopard by giving him 4 vitamin injections when I took him in for a check up. That woman was a nightmare. See previous posts on that heartbreak. Anyway this guy was even worse than the first. He seemed to have zero clue about tortoises. He pulled on her legs and said they seemed fine. He did say nothing appeared broken. He wanted to given her steroid injections "just in case". I said no I was afraid of injections after the last time. He said well apparently the internet and I knew more than him. He left it with just give her time and make things a little easier so she could heal if she had pulled a muscle.

So that's what I did. I put her in the small enclosure I used when she was a hatching. She is a little over a year old now. I used different textures like the back side of tiles to give her things to grip when walking. Giving her nice long soaks which she loves. She is eating and pooping normal. Just still a little unsteady. Now that warm weather is here I have been getting her outside everyday. Lots of good textured to walk around on and she does appear to be getting stronger. She might be slow but she is getting around really well.

So what's the problem? Today I was watching her very closely and her front left leg was shaking as she tried to climb out of a clay saucer with water. She was really struggling so I picked her up and was looking at her legs. I saw a ball on the back of her back right leg. See photo. That knee joint also looks swollen. This is new. I have kept a very careful eye on her. She can pull that leg back in.

Does anyone know what this is? Has she had too much exercise? Did she strain this knee? Should I get an x ray? Does anyone have a good vet in Louisville, Ky? I called my regular vet and they didn't know anyone beside the crazy first vet I had gone to. The one listed here under my city is not there any longer. She has moved about 30 minutes away and I don't know anyone who has actually gone to her. I will take my star there right away if you guys think she needs to be seen.

Also I follow the care sheets to the letter. Food, temps, humidity, bulbs, substrate etc. She gets a huge variety of greens, flowers and weeds. She does love mazuri so she gets that a couple of nights a week. No extra vitamins since she gets a really good diet. Closed chamber to keep the humidity high. Large outdoor enclosure where I grow clovers, grasses and flowers all from seeds. Everything organic including the soil.

Any help will be much appreciated. I am freaking out with this ball thing on her leg. But two idiot vets have me scared too. Do you need better pictures? I didn't want to stress her out so I only took this one.

 

[ascott]

A few weeks ago I noticed my star was walking funny. Like her legs were weaker and maybe having trouble with her coordination. The back two legs appeared to be pushing off the ground fine. On the front legs both working but not lifting her up as high as normal. More of a side to side motion if that makes sense. All four limbs are working and if you softly pull on them you do get resistance but to me just seemed weaker and a little unsteady.

The only thing that had happened was I woke up one morning and she was asleep on top of her food. It was a mix of mazuri and rep-cal that I had forgotten to take away before I fell asleep. She was stuck to it. I guess the water plus heat and humidity had turned it into a paste. I have no idea how long she might have been stuck in her food. I gave her a good long soak and she seemed fine. A couple of days later is when I noticed the funny walking. I thought maybe she had pulled a muscle trying to get out of the food.

I took her to the second vet listed in my town as an exotic vet who treats tortoises. The number one vet killed my little leopard by giving him 4 vitamin injections when I took him in for a check up. That woman was a nightmare. See previous posts on that heartbreak. Anyway this guy was even worse than the first. He seemed to have zero clue about tortoises. He pulled on her legs and said they seemed fine. He did say nothing appeared broken. He wanted to given her steroid injections "just in case". I said no I was afraid of injections after the last time. He said well apparently the internet and I knew more than him. He left it with just give her time and make things a little easier so she could heal if she had pulled a muscle.

So that's what I did. I put her in the small enclosure I used when she was a hatching. She is a little over a year old now. I used different textures like the back side of tiles to give her things to grip when walking. Giving her nice long soaks which she loves. She is eating and pooping normal. Just still a little unsteady. Now that warm weather is here I have been getting her outside everyday. Lots of good textured to walk around on and she does appear to be getting stronger. She might be slow but she is getting around really well.

So what's the problem? Today I was watching her very closely and her front left leg was shaking as she tried to climb out of a clay saucer with water. She was really struggling so I picked her up and was looking at her legs. I saw a ball on the back of her back right leg. See photo. That knee joint also looks swollen. This is new. I have kept a very careful eye on her. She can pull that leg back in.

Does anyone know what this is? Has she had too much exercise? Did she strain this knee? Should I get an x ray? Does anyone have a good vet in Louisville, Ky? I called my regular vet and they didn't know anyone beside the crazy first vet I had gone to. The one listed here under my city is not there any longer. She has moved about 30 minutes away and I don't know anyone who has actually gone to her. I will take my star there right away if you guys think she needs to be seen.

Also I follow the care sheets to the letter. Food, temps, humidity, bulbs, substrate etc. She gets a huge variety of greens, flowers and weeds. She does love mazuri so she gets that a couple of nights a week. No extra vitamins since she gets a really good diet. Closed chamber to keep the humidity high. Large outdoor enclosure where I grow clovers, grasses and flowers all from seeds. Everything organic including the soil.

Any help will be much appreciated. I am freaking out with this ball thing on her leg. But two idiot vets have me scared too. Do you need better pictures? I didn't want to stress her out so I only took this one.View attachment 238085

I think that the tortoise looks fine....I would avoid trips to the vet when nothing appears wrong...the things you describe, please accept my apology, seem normal but more of a nervous human perhaps creating something of nothing.....a vet, in my opinion should be a last resort.

I would let the tort do what it does....if it is eating, basking and trucking about a bit then let the tort be.

 

[Kasia]

A few weeks ago I noticed my star was walking funny. Like her legs were weaker and maybe having trouble with her coordination. The back two legs appeared to be pushing off the ground fine. On the front legs both working but not lifting her up as high as normal. More of a side to side motion if that makes sense. All four limbs are working and if you softly pull on them you do get resistance but to me just seemed weaker and a little unsteady.

The only thing that had happened was I woke up one morning and she was asleep on top of her food. It was a mix of mazuri and rep-cal that I had forgotten to take away before I fell asleep. She was stuck to it. I guess the water plus heat and humidity had turned it into a paste. I have no idea how long she might have been stuck in her food. I gave her a good long soak and she seemed fine. A couple of days later is when I noticed the funny walking. I thought maybe she had pulled a muscle trying to get out of the food.

I took her to the second vet listed in my town as an exotic vet who treats tortoises. The number one vet killed my little leopard by giving him 4 vitamin injections when I took him in for a check up. That woman was a nightmare. See previous posts on that heartbreak. Anyway this guy was even worse than the first. He seemed to have zero clue about tortoises. He pulled on her legs and said they seemed fine. He did say nothing appeared broken. He wanted to given her steroid injections "just in case". I said no I was afraid of injections after the last time. He said well apparently the internet and I knew more than him. He left it with just give her time and make things a little easier so she could heal if she had pulled a muscle.

So that's what I did. I put her in the small enclosure I used when she was a hatching. She is a little over a year old now. I used different textures like the back side of tiles to give her things to grip when walking. Giving her nice long soaks which she loves. She is eating and pooping normal. Just still a little unsteady. Now that warm weather is here I have been getting her outside everyday. Lots of good textured to walk around on and she does appear to be getting stronger. She might be slow but she is getting around really well.

So what's the problem? Today I was watching her very closely and her front left leg was shaking as she tried to climb out of a clay saucer with water. She was really struggling so I picked her up and was looking at her legs. I saw a ball on the back of her back right leg. See photo. That knee joint also looks swollen. This is new. I have kept a very careful eye on her. She can pull that leg back in.

Does anyone know what this is? Has she had too much exercise? Did she strain this knee? Should I get an x ray? Does anyone have a good vet in Louisville, Ky? I called my regular vet and they didn't know anyone beside the crazy first vet I had gone to. The one listed here under my city is not there any longer. She has moved about 30 minutes away and I don't know anyone who has actually gone to her. I will take my star there right away if you guys think she needs to be seen.

Also I follow the care sheets to the letter. Food, temps, humidity, bulbs, substrate etc. She gets a huge variety of greens, flowers and weeds. She does love mazuri so she gets that a couple of nights a week. No extra vitamins since she gets a really good diet. Closed chamber to keep the humidity high. Large outdoor enclosure where I grow clovers, grasses and flowers all from seeds. Everything organic including the soil.

Any help will be much appreciated. I am freaking out with this ball thing on her leg. But two idiot vets have me scared too. Do you need better pictures? I didn't want to stress her out so I only took this one.View attachment 238085

Hi better pics are needed, from different angles. I see what you mean by ball but it can be a normal feature just exaggerated by the position you put her in. A video with her walking would be great too. That would make it easier for members to comment on. From what you have written I see you care about her very much!!!! For now I would watch her closely if the leg would require emergency Vet you would know it for sure (she will not put any weight on it, mostly sit in one area). And great job at the Vets the other day!

 

[Lesa]

I am so sorry my reply is late. I did not have a notification of post replies. I took her to the new vet that is listed in the forums for my area, Teresa Gregory. She moved a short town away but I really liked her. She watched all my videos and took a long time with us and did not dismiss my fears about injections and previous vets. She took a small needle biospy and we are waiting for the lab results. Those had to be sent out so I am hoping we hear something by the end of the week. She gave me two liquid medications to give Rebel for now. The first is an antibiotic, sulfamethoxazole trimethoprism, 0.05 ml once daily. The other, metacam, 0.1 ml once daily is for swelling and pain.

Rebel will not touch her food with the drops so I have been using a syringe with a tiny tube on the end. The dosage is so small that I have to fill syringe with a maruzi mash (thanks Randy!) in order to push out the meds. She has had three doses so far with zero results. I think the swelling around the knee is worse. She is eating and seems to enjoy her soaks stretching her legs out. But she is not walking around much. I have made things as easy as I can so she doesn’t have to move around. She has been basking under her vapor bulb more than usual. I have not taken her out under the sun the last few days because I was worried she would walk on the leg too much.

I just read the story in the newsletter about the little tort with leg swelling who died. Now I am freaked out completely. My hands shake so much forcing these meds on her. I am so afraid it will stress her out and she will stop eating. New pics below. The swelling has increased around the knee since those first pictures. Her leg will not retract as far inside the shell as her other leg. It appears redder in color so I don’t know about an abscess (the vets first thought but need those labs) I will take video of her trying to walk if that would help.

 

[Lesa]

More pictures but I cannot seem to get the video to upload.

 

[Kasia]

View attachment 238825 View attachment 238824 View attachment 238823

More pictures but I cannot seem to get the video to upload.

That joint looks bad - were any additional X-rays taken? It’s wonderful that you found a trustworthy Vet! Hopefully she will find a solution for the swelling! In my opinion natural sunlight will be beneficial even if she moves a bit, you can give her an outside soak or just put her out on a blanket for a couple of minutes (watch her so she will not overheat). I keep mine fingers crossed for you both, give us updates. Maybe someone had a similar problem? @Yvonne @zovick @Tom

 

[Lesa]

That joint looks bad - were any additional X-rays taken? It’s wonderful that you found a trustworthy Vet! Hopefully she will find a solution for the swelling! In my opinion natural sunlight will be beneficial even if she moves a bit, you can give her an outside soak or just put her out on a blanket for a couple of minutes (watch her so she will not overheat). I keep mine fingers crossed for you both, give us updates. Maybe someone had a similar problem? @Yvonne @zovick @Tom

The new vet didn’t take an x ray. Maybe because the leg is working? Her first thought was an abscess. She said we really need the cell cultures to know how to proceed. This swelling and redness is new. It is not as pronounced in my first post on May 9th. That is the first day I noticed the bump and minor swelling. Before that she was just walking weird. Slower and not as coordinated. But I could not figure out which limb or if all were weak. It wasn’t like she was dragging a leg. No obvious injury. And no trauma that I know of except getting stuck on her food. I can’t even say that was a trauma. Just the only out of the ordinary thing that had happened. That’s why I took her to the first idiot vet. But he did say nothing appeard broken (there was no bump or swelling then). I figured he has to at least be competent enough to see a broken bone or suggest an xray. He mentioned steroids but that just set off alarms with me. Not the steroids but him. I’m older and have had a few vets in my day. This guy was off his meds.

I figured spring and warm temps were finally here. I would get her outside in natural sun everyday and she could build up her strength. She was getting around better. Basking outside and munching on clover. I have watched her so closely. The day I saw the bump I had put her in a clay saucer with warm water. I wanted to see if she could climb out on her own. See if she was getting stronger and back to normal. She was really struggling to pull herself up. The front legs were shaky. I lifted her up and was checking her limbs carefully. To see if each one retracted and how much resistance when I tugged very lightly. Any difference with any limb. That’s when I saw the bump and minor swelling. I posted on Thursday but when I didn’t have any replies I found the new vet and took her in Friday morning. So here we are almost a week later and swelling worse. Waiting on these damn labs.

I have three other torts who are all thriving.

 

[Kasia]

Maybe ask her to next time you visit, it looks like something is wrong with the joint. Was there any liquid running out after sticking the biopsy needle in it?

 

[Lesa]

Maybe ask her to next time you visit, it looks like something is wrong with the joint. Was there any liquid running out after sticking the biopsy needle in it?

As far as I know there was not. She took some cells from the bump near the spurs. It was such a tiny amount. The size of a pin head. The leg didn’t look as bad at the vet visit. Like the first set of pics I posted. Now there is the redness and more swelling around the joint. I just gave Rebel the meds and she is eating her breakfast.

The vet isn’t in today and the labs aren’t back. Vet will be in tomorrow and they gave me a number to text the new pics. The vet should call me first thing and see if I should bring her back in. We should get temps in the low 80’s but thunderstorms predicted. I am taking a vacation day and will stay home with her. If I can I will get her out in the sun and see how she does. I can isolate her in a small area were she can bask but not move around. Or should she be moving and using it? I have a bad knee that swells myself and have to find that balance between moving and keeping active and not doing too much.

She has this round platform the size of a dinner plate that has a good gripping texture right under her light. She is basking now. I have the coconut coir around the rest of the enclosure and level with the platform so she can easily move to her hide or under some plants. The coconut is soft so she scoots more on it. I had put some tiles turned over with texture on the sides of enclosure but she hasn’t used those. I don’t know if the soft texture is good or I can add more texture. Not sure the best way to help. Does she need to be off the leg or moving and doing more “physical therapy”. I am leaning towards easy if it is an abscess and painful. You can see her “recovery” enclosure. It is plain and small.

 

[Kasia]

The enclosure looks great I hope it all will end well for this little one, it shows how much you care for her! I’m waiting for the Vet update!!!

 

[Lesa]

The enclosure looks great I hope it all will end well for this little one, it shows how much you care for her! I’m waiting for the Vet update!!!

Still waiting on the damn lab results. Put another call into the vet to light a fire under someone’s *** and get those results. She hasn’t shown much improvement with the two medications. The leg looks about the same maybe a little less swollen. Thankfully she is pretty easy to get the meds into with a tiny tube on the end of the syringe.

Still enjoying her soaks and eating. No weight loss but she is not walking around much. Basking under her light. I have been getting her outside for some natural light in the afternoon. She is struggling to move around and goes to her favorite spot under some clover. She doesn’t munch on any clover and only wants to eat mazuri. But at least she is still eating. This is so frustrating!

 

[Kasia]

It’s great that she’s eating but honestly it’s a long time to wait, If meds don’t work I would get back to the Vet and ask for further testing. Quality of life is everything for an animal and she’s practically immobile and maybe hurting. Rush them and ask fo another consult, it’s not going to get better let’s hope it’s not going to get worse... I would like to be in your shoes...and wish you all the best!!!

 

[Yvonne G]

Not being able to see it in real life, I can only guess. At first I thought maybe it was broken, or joint out of socket, but looking at the picture it looks like a big gob of pus just under the skin. Going to the vet was the best choice. Now we just have to wait for them to respond to you.

 

[ascott]

As far as I know there was not. She took some cells from the bump near the spurs. It was such a tiny amount. The size of a pin head. The leg didn’t look as bad at the vet visit. Like the first set of pics I posted. Now there is the redness and more swelling around the joint. I just gave Rebel the meds and she is eating her breakfast.

The vet isn’t in today and the labs aren’t back. Vet will be in tomorrow and they gave me a number to text the new pics. The vet should call me first thing and see if I should bring her back in. We should get temps in the low 80’s but thunderstorms predicted. I am taking a vacation day and will stay home with her. If I can I will get her out in the sun and see how she does. I can isolate her in a small area were she can bask but not move around. Or should she be moving and using it? I have a bad knee that swells myself and have to find that balance between moving and keeping active and not doing too much.

She has this round platform the size of a dinner plate that has a good gripping texture right under her light. She is basking now. I have the coconut coir around the rest of the enclosure and level with the platform so she can easily move to her hide or under some plants. The coconut is soft so she scoots more on it. I had put some tiles turned over with texture on the sides of enclosure but she hasn’t used those. I don’t know if the soft texture is good or I can add more texture. Not sure the best way to help. Does she need to be off the leg or moving and doing more “physical therapy”. I am leaning towards easy if it is an abscess and painful. You can see her “recovery” enclosure. It is plain and small.

Something stands out to me here....you say the coconut coir substrate is soft so she scoots more on it.....the substrate should be a firm solid walking surface....I would warm water soak the substrate....and then once it absorbs up the water I would firmly press the substrate down solid by hand....repeat until the substrate is firm...a tortoise will have joint/muscle issues and can harm the development of the legs if they have no firm foothold....

 

[Lesa]

Not being able to see it in real life, I can only guess. At first I thought maybe it was broken, or joint out of socket, but looking at the picture it looks like a big gob of pus just under the skin. Going to the vet was the best choice. Now we just have to wait for them to respond to you.

I just spoke with the vet. She is hoping the lab will call this afternoon. She put a call into them to get these results asap. She doesn’t want to proceed until she has the results. She is thinking abscess not broken. Rebel can walk on it. Retract it and does give resistance it you tug on that limb.

 

[Lesa]

Something stands out to me here....you say the coconut coir substrate is soft so she scoots more on it.....the substrate should be a firm solid walking surface....I would warm water soak the substrate....and then once it absorbs up the water I would firmly press the substrate down solid by hand....repeat until the substrate is firm...a tortoise will have joint/muscle issues and can harm the development of the legs if they have no firm foothold....

I have packed it down firmly for her. Before in her larger enclosure she had different textures to walk on. Rocks, platform with grooves, coconut coir moist but it wasn’t super firm. She liked to burrow into it a little. Outside has grass, pebbles, sand, bark etc. A lot of variety but no heights. With her high dome she can’t right herself as well so I didn’t want to take any chances. I have no clue how she hurt her leg. No trauma no wound. Just the one time stuck on her food.

 

[Lesa]

It’s great that she’s eating but honestly it’s a long time to wait, If meds don’t work I would get back to the Vet and ask for further testing. Quality of life is everything for an animal and she’s practically immobile and maybe hurting. Rush them and ask fo another consult, it’s not going to get better let’s hope it’s not going to get worse... I would like to be in your shoes...and wish you all the best!!!

Thanks, hopefully they will call today. I won’t let her suffer but we need the labs to see what to do next. She does enjoy her soaks and stretches both back legs out. I’ll get her out in the sun and grass. The vet didn’t think there was any harm in getting her out and see how mobile she is. As soon as I can leave work I’ll be spending the rest of the day with her and waiting by the phone.

 

[ascott]

I have packed it down firmly for her. Before in her larger enclosure she had different textures to walk on. Rocks, platform with grooves, coconut coir moist but it wasn’t super firm. She liked to burrow into it a little. Outside has grass, pebbles, sand, bark etc. A lot of variety but no heights. With her high dome she can’t right herself as well so I didn’t want to take any chances. I have no clue how she hurt her leg. No trauma no wound. Just the one time stuck on her food.

Okay so I have to ask....what the H to you mean Just the one time stuck ON her food? what exactly does that intel?

 

[Lesa]

Okay so I have to ask....what the H to you mean Just the one time stuck ON her food? what exactly does that intel?

You didn’t read my original post.

 

[Melis]

Thinking about your little one! Hope you get an update today