Preventing pyramiding

[Pbennett]

Hi,

So I am completely new to tortoises, having done plenty of research into them so far. I haven’t yet got my tortoise but I have decided that I want to get a pyramid tortoise when I do.

I have also read lots of conflicting advice on the conditions and enclosures andfrom first reading they like high templow humidity, I have recently discovered that they actually like high heat and high humidity.

I really want to get all of this right before I start, so I have a coffee table. (Large) which I am planning to convert into a vivarium. I have read this enables the humidity to stay high!!
I’m in the uk so I would appreciate views of different set ups and things to buy.

after reading I have decided to get separate uv/heat bulbs. 12% uv. And keep the heat bulb on at night to ensure it stays hot. With a cooler area too. What holders do you have and what bulbs? How do you connect them to a thermostat and which are the best ones?
Humidifiers/foggers/misters, do water falls have an impact on humidity?. Which is best to buy? I want to ensure that the conditions are perfect and plan on setting it up and maintaining it for about a month before I get my tortoise to ensure I get the conditions right.
I am going to add real plants, use soil for the substrate, add mossy hides, water bowl and obviously ensure I follow the first correctly adding supplements.
Any advice will be much appreciated as I just want to ensure I get it right.

 

[Blackdog1714]

Check this thread out it is awesome for most tortoises young to old. BTW you thread is prevent pyramiding and you are looking for a pyramid tortoise is this correct?

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

www.tortoiseforum.org

 

[Pbennett]

Check this thread out it is awesome for most tortoises young to old. BTW you thread is prevent pyramiding and you are looking for a pyramid tortoise is this correct?

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

www.tortoiseforum.org

Thanks for your reply, sorry I should of been clearer. I’m going to get a hatchling but want to ensure right conditions to prevent pyramiding as I’ve seen so many contradicting posts and Facebook groups and people and it’s hard to know exactly how to prevent it and help. I will be checking my tortoise constantly to ensure that there’s no pyramiding. I found a thread posted this morning that really helps!!

 

[Blackdog1714]

Well welcome to TFO where we ask questions and enjoy mostly intelligent conversations. Just look at all the adds and fake news that is Facebook that should let you know the quality of information you will get. I would get the enclosure first so you can set it up and dial in the heat and humidity before you get the tort. I did and it made the care so less stressful (I went from Noob to 2 torts in 2 years) I have a Russian and a Leopard. Both are healthy thanks to the information I got my TFO. Remember anyone can spout wrong information, but it takes someone special to realize they are wrong and change!

 

[Pbennett]

Well welcome to TFO where we ask questions and enjoy mostly intelligent conversations. Just look at all the adds and fake news that is Facebook that should let you know the quality of information you will get. I would get the enclosure first so you can set it up and dial in the heat and humidity before you get the tort. I did and it made the care so less stressful (I went from Noob to 2 torts in 2 years) I have a Russian and a Leopard. Both are healthy thanks to the information I got my TFO. Remember anyone can spout wrong information, but it takes someone special to realize they are wrong and change!

Thanks, I’m building my own enclosure from a coffee table. So adding a toughen glass top which will open on hinges (my plan.) then a Perspex or toughened glass front. I’ve been looking at heat lamps and holders and I’ve seen a uv light I’m going to get but I need to fix it too the back. How many ventilation holes do you think I should add?
What about humidifier? Necessary? And how do you create a humid hide? Moss? I’ve seen so many pictures of different set ups and the ground looks so dry in them. I mean you can tell if the soil is moist? I was planning on using soil at the bottom and orchid bark on top or should I just use orchid bark?. I need to build the enclosure first and then adjust things according to the humidity readings and temperature for a while till I get it right before I get a tortoise.

 

[Blackdog1714]

Thanks, I’m building my own enclosure from a coffee table. So adding a toughen glass top which will open on hinges (my plan.) then a Perspex or toughened glass front. I’ve been looking at heat lamps and holders and I’ve seen a uv light I’m going to get but I need to fix it too the back. How many ventilation holes do you think I should add?
What about humidifier? Necessary? And how do you create a humid hide? Moss? I’ve seen so many pictures of different set ups and the ground looks so dry in them. I mean you can tell if the soil is moist? I was planning on using soil at the bottom and orchid bark on top or should I just use orchid bark?. I need to build the enclosure first and then adjust things according to the humidity readings and temperature for a while till I get it right before I get a tortoise.

1. you need a dedicated heat source like a CHE that goes in a dome fixture with a CERAMIC base
2. Lights- UV and basking area The UV can be mounted at the top of the wall and regular incandescent flood bulb can be used for the basking like Fluker's Basking Spotlight Bulbs for Reptiles
3. Temperature Controller Thermostat (you can set minimum and maximum heat levels
4. Closed Chamber- you are not sealing the chamber like a refrigerator does so maybe just two adjustable vents holes if any. Opening the door will do an air exchange and air will seep in through gaps
5. No Humidifier- Cold Wet Air equals respiratory infection
6. Substrate- Fine Fir Bark, Cypress Mulch or Coco Choir. For me the Fir Bark is the best and stays so much cleaner. To save $ you can make your substrate 8CM deep with cypress or choir and then cover with a layer fir bark to you do see the other. For me using cypress with the fir bark is the best performing and cheapest way to do it on the east coast US. You can add a pitcher of hot water on a as needed basis to boost the humidity. If coco choir looks dry it is dry, but fin fir bark can look dry in an 80% + enclosure. Also no moss, sand or rocks due to ingestion and impaction risks.

Get some pothos and spider plants from the store. Wash them, repot them and get them start in your enclosure. Another member suggested using thin wire and making an arch from side to side for your pothos to grow out of bite reach and for a place to hide.

 

[Pbennett]

1. you need a dedicated heat source like a CHE that goes in a dome fixture with a CERAMIC base
2. Lights- UV and basking area The UV can be mounted at the top of the wall and regular incandescent flood bulb can be used for the basking like Fluker's Basking Spotlight Bulbs for Reptiles
3. Temperature Controller Thermostat (you can set minimum and maximum heat levels
4. Closed Chamber- you are not sealing the chamber like a refrigerator does so maybe just two adjustable vents holes if any. Opening the door will do an air exchange and air will seep in through gaps
5. No Humidifier- Cold Wet Air equals respiratory infection
6. Substrate- Fine Fir Bark, Cypress Mulch or Coco Choir. For me the Fir Bark is the best and stays so much cleaner. To save $ you can make your substrate 8CM deep with cypress or choir and then cover with a layer fir bark to you do see the other. For me using cypress with the fir bark is the best performing and cheapest way to do it on the east coast US. You can add a pitcher of hot water on a as needed basis to boost the humidity. If coco choir looks dry it is dry, but fin fir bark can look dry in an 80% + enclosure. Also no moss, sand or rocks due to ingestion and impaction risks.

Get some pothos and spider plants from the store. Wash them, repot them and get them start in your enclosure. Another member suggested using thin wire and making an arch from side to side for your pothos to grow out of bite reach and for a place to hide.

Thanks, I’ll have a look at things here in the uk and see if they are right. I’ll post and links if I’m unsure. It’s hard to know exactly what is right when you are looking online and there are so many different brands and types.
So I use a heat emitter, (on all the time but set to low and high temps with a thermostat) a uv light at 12% and then a basking bulb for basking. Do you use a slate under neath the basking spot?

illl have a look at those substrates in the uk and see what I find.
Vent holes, I have seen some vents online which you can buy so I’ll check they are adjustable.

glad I don’t need an humidifier. I’ll just spray the area.
how do you make a humid hide?
Love the ideas for plants and wire for them to grow over.

 

[Blackdog1714]

Thanks, I’ll have a look at things here in the uk and see if they are right. I’ll post and links if I’m unsure. It’s hard to know exactly what is right when you are looking online and there are so many different brands and types.
So I use a heat emitter, (on all the time but set to low and high temps with a thermostat) a uv light at 12% and then a basking bulb for basking. Do you use a slate under neath the basking spot?

illl have a look at those substrates in the uk and see what I find.
Vent holes, I have seen some vents online which you can buy so I’ll check they are adjustable.

glad I don’t need an humidifier. I’ll just spray the area.
how do you make a humid hide?
Love the ideas for plants and wire for them to grow over.

1. Slate is great for basking with a separate piece for feeding on
2. I use Reptibark (fine Fir Bark) garden centers also carry Orchid Bark just make sure it is only the Fine Fir Bark kind not the one with added soil and fertilizers
3. Humid hide-get a washing up bowl (tub for washing dishes) cut an opening so the tort can go in and out. I just add a little extra substrate and wet daily to stay humid
3. for the light you want a T5 UVB bulb 29- 60 CM size would be more than enough. on Amazon UK y'all can buy Arcadia Bulbs which are very good! A 75 would be fine as ultimately the fine control over the heat and humidity may play a bigger role than the UV in preventing pyramiding. 2 hours of outside sunshine on two different days would easily be fine for a tort in one week and they wouldn't need the supplemental UV.

 

[Yossarian]

Just quickly wanted to point out, if you put glass on top of the enclosure, The UV light must be under the glass. Silica Glass is opaque to UV.

 

[Pbennett]

Just quickly wanted to point out, if you put glass on top of the enclosure, The UV light must be under the glass. Silica Glass is opaque to UV.

Hi, thank you, yes I am planning on the uv been inside the enclosure. The glass on top is purely for light to get in as well as for viewing. I’ll add a drawing at some point of how I plan to have it and upload it. ?

 

[TeamZissou]

This post is in the leopard subforum, so I take it you're planning on a leopard? If so, here's the best info on how to raise a smooth leopard:

The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. Babies hatch during the...

tortoiseforum.org

Little if any of the info on Facebook regarding tortoises is good.

The other thing you'll want to do is to get the hatchling as soon as you can to get it into the right conditions to prevent pyramiding. Most breeders do not start them properly, so it will likely already have started pyramiding once you get it if it's several months old.

 

[Pbennett]

This post is in the leopard subforum, so I take it you're planning on a leopard? If so, here's the best info on how to raise a smooth leopard:

The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. Babies hatch during the...

tortoiseforum.org

Little if any of the info on Facebook regarding tortoises is good.

The other thing you'll want to do is to get the hatchling as soon as you can to get it into the right conditions to prevent pyramiding. Most breeders do not start them properly, so it will likely already have started pyramiding once you get it if it's several months old.

Thank you I have also replied in that thread which is Perfect. As you are right Facebook really isn’t great for what you should and shouldn’t do based on these posts.

I am going to try and ask the questions about how it has been bought up and the enclosure when I get one so I’ll try and find a breeder who follows this husbandry if possible!! Or as close to. Hopefully it won’t have pyramiding and can also avoid this following the advice I have received. I play to buy bits gradually too before setting up and trying It out and working out how to get it to the perfect conditions and make sure it stays that was before I get one so I know what I’m doing without causing stress or damage to any tortoises.

 

[Pbennett]

1. Slate is great for basking with a separate piece for feeding on
2. I use Reptibark (fine Fir Bark) garden centers also carry Orchid Bark just make sure it is only the Fine Fir Bark kind not the one with added soil and fertilizers
3. Humid hide-get a washing up bowl (tub for washing dishes) cut an opening so the tort can go in and out. I just add a little extra substrate and wet daily to stay humid
3. for the light you want a T5 UVB bulb 29- 60 CM size would be more than enough. on Amazon UK y'all can buy Arcadia Bulbs which are very good! A 75 would be fine as ultimately the fine control over the heat and humidity may play a bigger role than the UV in preventing pyramiding. 2 hours of outside sunshine on two different days would easily be fine for a tort in one week and they wouldn't need the supplemental UV.

Thank you, these have been so helpful!! I will get slate for the enclosure too. I have seen that on a site that I’ve been looking for things on.
I will look for a washing up bowl, I presume plastic and not a metal one which I know you can get, but they are easy and cheap enough to get.

what about other enrichment ideas? And bathing? Again so much contradiction on bathing your tortoise.
Do you have any pictures of yours and set up?

 

[Blackdog1714]

Thank you, these have been so helpful!! I will get slate for the enclosure too. I have seen that on a site that I’ve been looking for things on.
I will look for a washing up bowl, I presume plastic and not a metal one which I know you can get, but they are easy and cheap enough to get.

what about other enrichment ideas? And bathing? Again so much contradiction on bathing your tortoise.
Do you have any pictures of yours and set up?

It is 3'x11' so 1M x 3.6M. RHP over the humid hide, plant grow lights, T5 UVB (thrift store buy) and a CHE on the other end. it is double wall with heavy insulation so it hold heat well. These photos are from before I added the Reptibark on top. My leopard was almost 6 months old when I got him and obviously didn't have the right conditions, but he is getting better. My Russian I had from a little baby and the pink dot is from nail polish the breeder used to mark the individual babies. It does no harm and it is amazing how long it lasts. BTW my Russian is a he too and sadly they both have forced me to see that are males!

20-30 minute soaks in water that is 96-100 degrees (35.5-37.7C) I leave the tub in the enclosure to maintain warmth of the water. I change out grazable plants and vary the diet daily other than doing shell rub downs with Tortoise Shine- coconut oil also works well, nut basically not much else for enrichment. Cheap plastic tubs are the go to for so many things tortoise- soaking, hides, food collection and since there cheap when they outgrow them get new. As far as slate you should find some in like a construction store or garden center with paving supplies