Roaming in the house

[gups]

Hi everybody!

I've recently just bought a 8 month year old horsfield! Love him/her! I decided to get a vivarium and have changed it to make it suit me and what I have read better. I live in England.
My main question is about him being around the house so he has more space. I was told that he should only be out max of half hour a day in the house but can be longer if he's outdoors. However I only take him out in the evening when he has had his daily need of the uv light. I'm sure he likes being out of the viv and getting up to mischief!
Wanted a second opinion of the time he is allowed out?
Also for a varied diet should I be giving my tort weeds/flowers and veg because at the moment he is just getting veg and fruit?

Oooo and name ideas are very welcome! We are struggling to decide!

Thank you!!

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi, and welcome!

In my opinion, it's a real bad idea to allow a tortoise, especially one as young and vulnerable as yours, to roam around the house on the floor. We had an instance a few months ago where a young sulcata was on the floor and the owner closed a door, not realizing the tortoise's head was in back of the door between the jamb and the door, and the owner squeezed the tortoise's head, killing it. Besides dangers such as that, he might eat something that would cause him to be sick. If he has a big enough enclosure, there's no reason to allow the tortoise out of his enclosure.

 

[gups]

Hi, and welcome!

In my opinion, it's a real bad idea to allow a tortoise, especially one as young and vulnerable as yours, to roam around the house on the floor. We had an instance a few months ago where a young sulcata was on the floor and the owner closed a door, not realizing the tortoise's head was in back of the door between the jamb and the door, and the owner squeezed the tortoise's head, killing it. Besides dangers such as that, he might eat something that would cause him to be sick. If he has a big enough enclosure, there's no reason to allow the tortoise out of his enclosure.

Thank you Yvonne,
We have a enclosed space for him to roam in as my dad wanted to make one! Just a wooden square that he can't get out of but I guess the eating something he shouldn't is very true!

 

[gups]

This was a helpful read actually!

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

This was a helpful read actually!

Something else that normally is not mentioned in these talks concerning torts roaming the house in they do tend to crap. If they gotta go, then they go where they are. That's always fun. Not such a big deal for a russian, compared to say a sulcata roaming your house, but you may not find the turd until your in-laws find it will enjoying a lovely dinner at your home and then you've got explaining to do. Really just trying to give you help here.

 

[AmberD]

I let my little redfoot roam around the kitchen/dining room. This is only at a time I am in there with him sitting on the floor, never take my eyes off him for about 10-15 min before his daily soaks. That way I feel if he picked up anything that would stick to him, it comes off in his "bath". There's nothing in there for him to chew on, except metal chair legs if he were to try or the bottom of the cupboards. I do have to block off the stove though as he tries to hightail it under there. We don't use chemicals to clean our floor and if he does go to the bathroom its cleaned up easily on the linoleum flooring.
If you say you have an area blocked off, you could make sure its always clean and free of things he/she could chew on or harm him/her.
My enclosure is plenty big enough, but I figure if he's out for his bath, why not have an adventure too. I feel if he's in his enclosure all the time, he sleeps ALL the time being 5 months old and doesn't "roam around" a lot per say.

 

[144 Grandpa Turtle]

I let my little redfoot roam around the kitchen/dining room. This is only at a time I am in there with him sitting on the floor, never take my eyes off him for about 10-15 min before his daily soaks. That way I feel if he picked up anything that would stick to him, it comes off in his "bath". There's nothing in there for him to chew on, except metal chair legs if he were to try or the bottom of the cupboards. I do have to block off the stove though as he tries to hightail it under there. We don't use chemicals to clean our floor and if he does go to the bathroom its cleaned up easily on the linoleum flooring.
If you say you have an area blocked off, you could make sure its always clean and free of things he/she could chew on or harm him/her.
My enclosure is plenty big enough, but I figure if he's out for his bath, why not have an adventure too. I feel if he's in his enclosure all the time, he sleeps ALL the time being 5 months old and doesn't "roam around" a lot per say.

Torts will try to eat everything but unlike a cat they cannt cough up fur ,dust , or hair ! But you can make a vet rich removing carpet fuzz ! Or Evan a electric wire . To many small hazards .

 

[gups]

Something else that normally is not mentioned in these talks concerning torts roaming the house in they do tend to crap. If they gotta go, then they go where they are. That's always fun. Not such a big deal for a russian, compared to say a sulcata roaming your house, but you may not find the turd until your in-laws find it will enjoying a lovely dinner at your home and then you've got explaining to do. Really just trying to give you help here.

Haha thanks for the heads up!

 

[AmberD]

Torts will try to eat everything but unlike a cat they cannt cough up fur ,dust , or hair ! But you can make a vet rich removing carpet fuzz ! Or Evan a electric wire . To many small hazards .

Thank you for your concern, as stated, there is nothing for him to eat, and I watch him like a hawk while he is out.

 

[Yvonne G]

I let my little redfoot roam around the kitchen/dining room. This is only at a time I am in there with him sitting on the floor, never take my eyes off him for about 10-15 min before his daily soaks. That way I feel if he picked up anything that would stick to him, it comes off in his "bath". There's nothing in there for him to chew on, except metal chair legs if he were to try or the bottom of the cupboards. I do have to block off the stove though as he tries to hightail it under there. We don't use chemicals to clean our floor and if he does go to the bathroom its cleaned up easily on the linoleum flooring.
If you say you have an area blocked off, you could make sure its always clean and free of things he/she could chew on or harm him/her.
My enclosure is plenty big enough, but I figure if he's out for his bath, why not have an adventure too. I feel if he's in his enclosure all the time, he sleeps ALL the time being 5 months old and doesn't "roam around" a lot per say.

The thing about that is, now you've allowed him to learn that there's more to the world than his enclosure. Tortoises that are allowed out of their enclosures are no longer satisfied to be confined. He will now try climbing the walls, pacing, trying to escape. In my opinion, that's cruel. Whereas before he was happy in his safe little world, now he realizes he's captured and not free.

 

[Tom]

Thank you for your concern, as stated, there is nothing for him to eat, and I watch him like a hawk while he is out.

We all realize that you are cautious and careful, but I have to tell you that every single case of a dead, injured or impacted tortoise that was roaming loose on the floor, says the same exact thing you are saying now. Then, after "it" happens they all say: "He's never done that before…"

Another member found a 2 inch sewing pin inside her tortoise in an Xray at the vets office. She had no idea where it came from.

As Ken said, we are just trying to help you avoid a catastrophe that we have seen far too many times. Many people choose to ignore this advice and think "it won't happen to me", but at the very least, maybe someone reading will avoid this practice upon reading our words.

 

[Tom]

Hi everybody!

I've recently just bought a 8 month year old horsfield! Love him/her! I decided to get a vivarium and have changed it to make it suit me and what I have read better. I live in England.
My main question is about him being around the house so he has more space. I was told that he should only be out max of half hour a day in the house but can be longer if he's outdoors. However I only take him out in the evening when he has had his daily need of the uv light. I'm sure he likes being out of the viv and getting up to mischief!
Wanted a second opinion of the time he is allowed out?
Also for a varied diet should I be giving my tort weeds/flowers and veg because at the moment he is just getting veg and fruit?

Oooo and name ideas are very welcome! We are struggling to decide!

Thank you!!

Hello, welcome and congratulations on the new baby.

Your tortoise should never be loose on the floor. If the enclosure is too small to meet your tortoises exercise needs, then it needs to be made larger. Large outdoor enclosures help too.

There seems to be a trend with some of our UK member to use tiny little enclosures over there. I think it is because that is what the pet shops sell and recommend. A 4" russian ned at least 4x8 feet of floor space in its enclosure. More is better, but few people seem to provide this much space. There is a lot of misinformation circulating around out in the world. I hope we can help.

Here are some tips:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/

 

[AmberD]

The thing about that is, now you've allowed him to learn that there's more to the world than his enclosure. Tortoises that are allowed out of their enclosures are no longer satisfied to be confined. He will now try climbing the walls, pacing, trying to escape. In my opinion, that's cruel. Whereas before he was happy in his safe little world, now he realizes he's captured and not free.

He has never had any of that behavior.. I fail to see how it is different than having an indoor and outdoor enclosure like so many do? He is confined to a small room, like an "enclosure". If he has never left those two areas how does he know there is more to the world? Does that mean when I make him an outdoor enclosure when he's older and he goes out during the day and in at night for the two months in the summer of nice weather we get, I'm cruel for keeping him in his indoor when the weather is bad? I'm confused about that

 

[Markw84]

Amber,

I agree with all the comments and possible reasoning above, but let me put it the way I feel just makes sense to me...

I spend a lot of time and effort in getting an enclosure, (inside or out) to create the best environment possible for the tortoises I keep. Temperatures and gradients, humidity, night heat, plants to hide under to feel natural and secure, lighting balance, UVB and photoperiod. Water and food accessibility. It takes a lot to get it right and the better you do at it, the more your tortoise will THRIVE!.

After all that work, why would I want to take it out of that "little piece of heaven" I have created and put it in a place that is not as well suited for it? Especially since microclimate is SOOOO important for tortoises?

 

[AmberD]

Amber,

I agree with all the comments and possible reasoning above, but let me put it the way I feel just makes sense to me...

I spend a lot of time and effort in getting an enclosure, (inside or out) to create the best environment possible for the tortoises I keep. Temperatures and gradients, humidity, night heat, plants to hide under to feel natural and secure, lighting balance, UVB and photoperiod. Water and food accessibility. It takes a lot to get it right and the better you do at it, the more your tortoise will THRIVE!.

After all that work, why would I want to take it out of that "little piece of heaven" I have created and put it in a place that is not as well suited for it? Especially since microclimate is SOOOO important for tortoises?

I understand where everyone is coming from and I'm not trying to fight on the situation. I just didn't like to feel I was being cruel just for letting him roam around for 10 minutes on a clean floor while being watched. It didn't make sense as people have multiple enclosures. So if my kitchen is warm and he's out for a soak anyway why wouldn't I let him roam if I know its safe?
Yes I get the what ifs, but that's my risk.
I appreciate everyone's concern, I want my baby to grow big, old and happy as everyone else does.

 

[Tom]

I understand where everyone is coming from and I'm not trying to fight on the situation. I just didn't like to feel I was being cruel just for letting him roam around for 10 minutes on a clean floor while being watched. It didn't make sense as people have multiple enclosures. So if my kitchen is warm and he's out for a soak anyway why wouldn't I let him roam if I know its safe?
Yes I get the what ifs, but that's my risk.
I appreciate everyone's concern, I want my baby to grow big, old and happy as everyone else does.

Not attacking you or trying to berate you. Just making tortoise conversation and explaining my POV since I've personally dealt with this issue many times.

Its not cruel, its dangerous. I used to do it too. But if I could somehow telepathically show you what I've seen over the years, you wouldn't do it. I'm not telepathic, so I have to do my best with the type word.

...but that's my risk.

I just want to address the above part of your quote because I feel it is relevant and powerful, and then I'm going to leave this alone.


No. Its not your risk. Its your tortoise whose life and health is at risk.

 

[AmberD]

Not attacking you or trying to berate you. Just making tortoise conversation and explaining my POV since I've personally dealt with this issue many times.

Its not cruel, its dangerous. I used to do it too. But if I could somehow telepathically show you what I've seen over the years, you wouldn't do it. I'm not telepathic, so I have to do my best with the type word.



I just want to address the above part of your quote because I feel it is relevant and powerful, and then I'm going to leave this alone.


No. Its not your risk. Its your tortoise whose life and health is at risk.

Thank you again for your concerns. I felt I had to add the "risk" part as all of you are putting it that way. I personally do not feel that way nor would I ever put any animal in harms way. I suppose some people have different feelings and ways of doings. I suppose I'm one of those people and I'm sure I'm not alone.
I have read a great deal on this forum and I feel some people get berated many times for having their own ways. Some known members even experiment with enclosures with lighting and food and substrate even though they know the "correct" way to see if a more optimal care can be met.
I'm sorry this has taken over the original posters thread.
Again, thank you everyone for your concerns.

 

[orv]

I'd like to add just a little different opinion regarding this issue of allowing your new tortoise some "freedom/adventure" while you watch him in the house. Four years ago we moved our two California Desert Tortoises from the home I grew up in to our new home in Aguanga, CA. One of the first things I observed was their curiosity about their new enclosure. The enclosure measures 20' by 60' and is enclosed by concrete block 2' below the surface and 2.5' above. They guickly, over the initial first few days, examined the perimeter of their area followed by serious exploration of their entire new home. That first year they plowed thru virtually all the landscaping that I'd provided. OK, it's their yard. As time has gone on, they no longer march their perimeter or destroy their landscaping. They certainly eat their appropriate plantings, but now they leave the rest alone, allowing for a much more attractive yard (from a human perspective). They certainly exercise throughout their territory and have their chosen basking spaces, both in the sun and shade. Initially, I built them a concrete block and natural sandstone "cave" that is shaded nicely by a large pine tree. Since that time, they have shared in digging a substantial burrough in which to find solace. What I'm trying to picture here, is that they neither desire nor need further territory since the one supplied them meets all their needs safely and healthily. It is our responsibility as their caregivers to supply a safe and species correct habitat. Once supplied . . . sit back and enjoy! Tortoises are not domestic animals. They don't ENJOY being handled unnecessarily. Your little tortoise may tolerate being handled, but unlike a cat or dog, he doesn't enjoy this interaction. Watch and observe the wonderful chacteristics of your new friend, but remember to consider what's best for his life. This is my experience as a tortoise friend and habitat maker since 1952. I've had a lot to learn over the years. For instance, I no longer kiss my tortoise friend on the beak, much to my wife's pleasure. Learn from other tortoise keepers and you'll have a much longer and more enriching relationship. I'm just sharing my experiences and I'm still learning from the experiences of others daily. I wish you and your new little friend a long and enriching live.

 

[Yvonne G]

He has never had any of that behavior.. I fail to see how it is different than having an indoor and outdoor enclosure like so many do? He is confined to a small room, like an "enclosure". If he has never left those two areas how does he know there is more to the world? Does that mean when I make him an outdoor enclosure when he's older and he goes out during the day and in at night for the two months in the summer of nice weather we get, I'm cruel for keeping him in his indoor when the weather is bad? I'm confused about that

He doesn't need a whole new indoor enclosure. Once he goes outside, if you need to bring him in at night because of weather conditions, he can be kept in a box with the lid closed. They just sleep at night anyway. But if you must have a complete indoor enclosure and an outdoor enclosure, the tortoise soon learns that he has two territories, and he becomes comfortable in both of them.

 

[seanang168]

I'd like to add just a little different opinion regarding this issue of allowing your new tortoise some "freedom/adventure" while you watch him in the house. Four years ago we moved our two California Desert Tortoises from the home I grew up in to our new home in Aguanga, CA. One of the first things I observed was their curiosity about their new enclosure. The enclosure measures 20' by 60' and is enclosed by concrete block 2' below the surface and 2.5' above. They guickly, over the initial first few days, examined the perimeter of their area followed by serious exploration of their entire new home. That first year they plowed thru virtually all the landscaping that I'd provided. OK, it's their yard. As time has gone on, they no longer march their perimeter or destroy their landscaping. They certainly eat their appropriate plantings, but now they leave the rest alone, allowing for a much more attractive yard (from a human perspective). They certainly exercise throughout their territory and have their chosen basking spaces, both in the sun and shade. Initially, I built them a concrete block and natural sandstone "cave" that is shaded nicely by a large pine tree. Since that time, they have shared in digging a substantial burrough in which to find solace. What I'm trying to picture here, is that they neither desire nor need further territory since the one supplied them meets all their needs safely and healthily. It is our responsibility as their caregivers to supply a safe and species correct habitat. Once supplied . . . sit back and enjoy! Tortoises are not domestic animals. They don't ENJOY being handled unnecessarily. Your little tortoise may tolerate being handled, but unlike a cat or dog, he doesn't enjoy this interaction. Watch and observe the wonderful chacteristics of your new friend, but remember to consider what's best for his life. This is my experience as a tortoise friend and habitat maker since 1952. I've had a lot to learn over the years. For instance, I no longer kiss my tortoise friend on the beak, much to my wife's pleasure. Learn from other tortoise keepers and you'll have a much longer and more enriching relationship. I'm just sharing my experiences and I'm still learning from the experiences of others daily. I wish you and your new little friend a long and enriching live.

What makes you decide not to kiss the tortoise on the beak anymore? I always looked at my closely but never kissed them. To avoid transmissions of pathogens either way.