Russian Tortoise Too Skinny?

chacha

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Hello fellow tortoise parents/owners,

I am a new owner of a Russian tortoise, Cha Cha Voldetort. My boyfriend and I got her from a pet rescue shop. The owner told us that she is 5 years old and female, although both are just guesses. I have a couple of questions about gauging my torts health. Answers besides taking my tort the the vet are much appreciated!

My main concern is that my tortoise might be too skinny indicating that there may be health issues like dehydration or parasites. We actually got her because she was super petite and cute, which I am now realizing might be a bad thing. Her arms, legs and neck are pretty skinny by my standards. I would love for someone to check out the photos I have attached.

Her behaviors are as follows: She eats well and is VERY active. Walks quickly and actively with all 4 legs. Spends a good amount of time climbing the walls and corners of her enclosure. Even when I let her out to explore, she goes to the nearest wall or thing to climb. We noticed she did a lot of pacing at the pet store as well. She burrows sometimes but not too deep. When I first got her, she would pee while soaking and she was calm in the water, sometimes getting brave enough to dunk her head. But she has not peed in her soak for he past 3 weeks and tries to escape. I started cleaning the tub with a bleach/ water solution, so maybe its the smell of the bleach? She poops towards the middle/end of her soak and in her enclosure.

I keep a water bowl in her enclosure and soak her about 3 times a week. Her poops vary from brown and solid to falling apart, flaky green poops. I feed her every day for 20 minutes. Spring mix, carrots or kale. I sprinkle calcium powder on her food. Sometimes she sheds in pretty big clumps. Her enclosure is 95 degrees under the basking lamp and 70 degrees on the cool end. Temp drops to about 60 degrees at night. Humidity fluctuates from 25-40. I honestly have been told multiple things about what the humidity should be.

Any advice, suggestions, opinions are much appreciated! I've never had a tortoise, let alone a pet. And you don't come across tortoise owners every day! Looking forward to hearing from you all!
 

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Kori5

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Sounds like you're doing everything right. It would be great if you add some weeds as a main diet, spring mix isn't great as it isn't very nutrition rich. Carrots shouls be fed very rarely. Buy some Mazuri for weight gain. I don't have a Russian but a Hermann but their diet is the same. She does look a little skinny, could you weight her? With a good diet she will catch up :). Soak her everyday. Welcome to the forum :).
 
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Kori5

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She is very beautiful :). Love your profile picture. Also, you may not want to let her roam in the house. It is not safe for her.
 
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wellington

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First, she is most likely older then 5. Second, do not give her a time limit to eat. Food should be available all the time. In the wild, which is where she is probably from, they have the choice to eat when they want and for as long as they want. I would nit use bleach, if it's not cleaned of the bleach properly, it could be deadly. Bleach can seep into the pores of clay and plastic. Hot water should be fine, or wash it like you would your dishes and rinse well. She doesn't look overly skinny to me. Feed her like I meantioned and if she doesn't put on weight, then a stool sample may need to be checked for parasites.
 

wellington

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Oh, and read the care sheet in the us sis. Section for adult Russians for the proper heat and humidity. Both of yours could use some adjusting.
 

wellington

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Sounds like you're doing everything right. It would be great if you add some weeds as a main diet, spring mix isn't great as it isn't very nutrition rich. Carrots shouls be fed very rarely. Buy some Mazuri for weight gain. I don't have a Russian but a Hermann but their diet is the same. She does look a little skinny, could you weight her? With a good diet she will catch up :). Soak her everyday. Welcome to the forum :).
Except a tortoise should not be put on a time limit too eat, bleach can be dangerous if not used on proper things and rinse properly, so a few things do need changing up.
 

W Shaw

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My boy Ronan came to me extremely malnourished and emaciated. I asked his vet what could be done. He said, "Don't be afraid of winter squashes." He uses pumpkin, butternut and other winter squashes (cooked or raw) as a sort of emergency food for putting weight on underweight tortoises. Using that -- as a supplementary item, not as his primary diet -- and a feeding schedule that gave him constant access to food, Ronan's weight increased by 10% in less than 2 months. I would avoid giving him a lot of kale or carrots. That's what I bought on the day I brought Ronan home too! But after reading more about proper diet, I got rid of both.

If it helps, here's his feeding schedule:

When I get up, he gets a big breakfast -- picture a large-ish dessert plate piled up full. On nonsupplement days, I just tear the greens up a little, and add things he has to work on a bit like a radicchio core or a couple of thick spears of zucchini or chunks of butternut. If he's awake, I also hand feed him for a few minutes before work. On supplement days I chop it all up fine and include TNT, herbal hay and his D3, and a little soaked, crumbled Mazuri. I don't hand feed at those meals because I don't want him to gorge on one thing and not eat his breakfast. When I get home from work, I take the leftovers away, and hand feed him with whatever he wants, until he slows down. For that feeding I don't worry too much about balanced nutrition. It's just to get calories in. Then I pop him in the bath, and when he comes out I give him another plate, not quite as full as his breakfast plate. I leave that in overnight. He doesn't eat much of it, but it's available if he wants it. I'll also hand feed any time he approaches and asks for it. I just keep in mind what he's had so far and try to give him something different.

Another thing I did, though it was expensive, was bought anything and everything that was safe to include in his diet until I found out what he would and wouldn't eat. For the first month he was with me all I ate was his leftovers! It was really frustrating but it gave him a varied diet, and me an idea of what he'd eat and what he wouldn't eat, so I could give him as much variety as he'd tolerate.

Hope this is helpful!
 

Kori5

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Except a tortoise should not be put on a time limit too eat, bleach can be dangerous if not used on proper things and rinse properly, so a few things do need changing up.
Well of course not. But I believe it's a wrong metod to criticize everything a new member does even if there are some thing that need adjusment. I know how overwhelmed I felt when I got my baby and how hard it was to keep up with all different advice I was given :). So I tend to be nice to new members on this forum and give advice on things I know and let you experienced members to comment further :).
 

Kasia

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Hello fellow tortoise parents/owners,

I am a new owner of a Russian tortoise, Cha Cha Voldetort. My boyfriend and I got her from a pet rescue shop. The owner told us that she is 5 years old and female, although both are just guesses. I have a couple of questions about gauging my torts health. Answers besides taking my tort the the vet are much appreciated!

My main concern is that my tortoise might be too skinny indicating that there may be health issues like dehydration or parasites. We actually got her because she was super petite and cute, which I am now realizing might be a bad thing. Her arms, legs and neck are pretty skinny by my standards. I would love for someone to check out the photos I have attached.

Her behaviors are as follows: She eats well and is VERY active. Walks quickly and actively with all 4 legs. Spends a good amount of time climbing the walls and corners of her enclosure. Even when I let her out to explore, she goes to the nearest wall or thing to climb. We noticed she did a lot of pacing at the pet store as well. She burrows sometimes but not too deep. When I first got her, she would pee while soaking and she was calm in the water, sometimes getting brave enough to dunk her head. But she has not peed in her soak for he past 3 weeks and tries to escape. I started cleaning the tub with a bleach/ water solution, so maybe its the smell of the bleach? She poops towards the middle/end of her soak and in her enclosure.

I keep a water bowl in her enclosure and soak her about 3 times a week. Her poops vary from brown and solid to falling apart, flaky green poops. I feed her every day for 20 minutes. Spring mix, carrots or kale. I sprinkle calcium powder on her food. Sometimes she sheds in pretty big clumps. Her enclosure is 95 degrees under the basking lamp and 70 degrees on the cool end. Temp drops to about 60 degrees at night. Humidity fluctuates from 25-40. I honestly have been told multiple things about what the humidity should be.

Any advice, suggestions, opinions are much appreciated! I've never had a tortoise, let alone a pet. And you don't come across tortoise owners every day! Looking forward to hearing from you all!

Hi
Her shell looks a bit dry to me - it's good that You soak her often and offer water, accept that You could also partly fill her enclosure with moist fine coconut coir so she could dig herself in it. Also You did not mention anything about lightning in Your enclosure, except a basking light, have You got any additional UV in there?

Wish You and Cha Cha all the best ;)
 

wellington

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Well of course not. But I believe it's a wrong metod to criticize everything a new member does even if there are some thing that need adjusment. I know how overwhelmed I felt when I got my baby and how hard it was to keep up with all different advice I was given :). So I tend to be nice to new members on this forum and give advice on things I know and let you experienced members to comment further :).
I understand, but if its a minor thing that's fine, but something like giving a tort a time limit to eat, specially one that the owner thinks is under weight. I like getting the corrections out right away, just incase there isn't another chance too. Also because you never know who might pop in and read a post or two and then not check back in. Now if everyone that posted said things like what you posted, they might think they now need to put their tort on an eating time limit.
 

Kori5

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I understand, but if its a minor thing that's fine, but something like giving a tort a time limit to eat, specially one that the owner thinks is under weight. I like getting the corrections out right away, just incase there isn't another chance too. Also because you never know who might pop in and read a post or two and then not check back in. Now if everyone that posted said things like what you posted, they might think they now need to put their tort on an eating time limit.
Many experienced breeders have recommended feeding for 20 min everyday or for 1 hour every other day. It is what some of them have done with their perfectly healthy animals for years. So yes I don't believe not commenting her feeding habits is wrong. Because, if we think about tortoises in wild, they walk miles each day for a few leaves. Food isn't always available. Animals tend to get fat in captivity and I think it's wrong not to limit their food. It really depends on the level of activity each animal gets but when you say "Food should always be available" some keepers take that the wrong way and their lovely babys get too fat with other health problems. A nice steady weight gain is what she should be looking for. So, no I don't think I was wrong, with respect to your knowledge and experience.
 

Kori5

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Also, I even haven't commented anything about feeding limit but I gave some correct advice about changing her diet from mainly store bought to weeds and soaking her tort more often. Most emportant, I encouraged her what is really important. I didn't touch other things she mentioned and left space for other members. So I really don't know why are you picking me or my comments but it makes me sad that newish members really can't say a thing without being mocked.
 

W Shaw

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I wonder, could the argument maybe be taken to a private conversation or another thread? Just thinking it might be a little intimidating for a newcomer to have experienced members in a heated argument in her first thread.
 

wellington

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Also, I even haven't commented anything about feeding limit but I gave some correct advice about changing her diet from mainly store bought to weeds and soaking her tort more often. Most emportant, I encouraged her what is really important. I didn't touch other things she mentioned and left space for other members. So I really don't know why are you picking me or my comments but it makes me sad that newish members really can't say a thing without being mocked.
It's all good. I don't know anyone I would listen to that would give their torts a time limit to eat though. I also don't know those that would limit their food, good foods that is unless it was over weight and that usually comes with the same wrong food being fed. My torts get fed in the a.m. and if it's gone in the afternoon, I give them some more. In summertime they can graze outside from 8/9 a.m. Until around 5 they head back in and I usually give them a handful of food then too. Oh and in the winter, it's mostly grocery greens, cactus, Mazuri, hah grain and whatever I could dry from the summer. I have leopards and a Russian and none are over weight. The info I follow comes only from this forum. Yes, there are others who will only feed their torts 2-3 times a week, yes they seem to do fine also. I'm hoping for doing great along with thriving. We all will do it different and that's fine. However this OP has a slightly under weight tort that they are worried about being under weight. No good time to put a tort on an eating time limit, but specially when it's already under weight.
I only quoted your post for the reason of limiting a tort that is already under weight and it's not a good idea to begin with.
You haven't been a member that long and I don't know anything about you. Wanted to be sure you didn't miss the part about a time limit and if you did, that you also got the correct info that it's not a good idea.
This is why I like when more then just a very small few respond to a thread. More info gets put out and even some discussions.
 

wellington

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I wonder, could the argument maybe be taken to a private conversation or another thread? Just thinking it might be a little intimidating for a newcomer to have experienced members in a heated argument in her first thread.
I don't see this as heated at all. We are having a discussion. Both explaining their decisions. The OP will get the info, reasons, and can make up their mind. If it was to get out of hand, being a mod, I guess I could put an end to it.
 

Kori5

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It's all good. I don't know anyone I would listen to that would give their torts a time limit to eat though. I also don't know those that would limit their food, good foods that is unless it was over weight and that usually comes with the same wrong food being fed. My torts get fed in the a.m. and if it's gone in the afternoon, I give them some more. In summertime they can graze outside from 8/9 a.m. Until around 5 they head back in and I usually give them a handful of food then too. Oh and in the winter, it's mostly grocery greens, cactus, Mazuri, hah grain and whatever I could dry from the summer. I have leopards and a Russian and none are over weight. The info I follow comes only from this forum. Yes, there are others who will only feed their torts 2-3 times a week, yes they seem to do fine also. I'm hoping for doing great along with thriving. We all will do it different and that's fine. However this OP has a slightly under weight tort that they are worried about being under weight. No good time to put a tort on an eating time limit, but specially when it's already under weight.
I only quoted your post for the reason of limiting a tort that is already under weight and it's not a good idea to begin with.
You haven't been a member that long and I don't know anything about you. Wanted to be sure you didn't miss the part about a time limit and if you did, that you also got the correct info that it's not a good idea.
This is why I like when more then just a very small few respond to a thread. More info gets put out and even some discussions.
Well I guess I have taken it too emotionally then :D. I have an very active adult male Hermann that spends half the year outside in our garden ( I live in the Med so this is possible) and hibernates except this winter. Our garden is full of tortoise friendly weeds so he can eat whenever he wants and gets hand fed by me in the morning and before bed a snack. He is very spoiled :). He only eats weeds, I haven't done the store bought salads until a few days because weeds were still available here. I ordered some Mazuri so will try that. So my point is, and maybe I didn't explain myself the best, of course I'm not for food limitations IF their needs for space and activity climbing etc.is met. But I always think of torts who maybe live indoors all year around and are fed too much. Is it right then to give them as much food they want?
 

wellington

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Like I said, it's all good. I wasn't trying to bash you. It's hard to always know how someone is coming across when there is no tone in the typed words.
Usually torts will get over weight when fed the wrong things, like too much fruit, fatty bugs and yes if fed those and kept in an enclosure that is too small. Grocery greens isn't as good as natural weeds, etc, but not really considered wrong, just not as good as natural grazing foods.
However, I do notice lots of things people plant for add items for their torts to graze on is the same stuff we buy at the store.
 

Kori5

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Like I said, it's all good. I wasn't trying to bash you. It's hard to always know how someone is coming across when there is no tone in the typed words.
Usually torts will get over weight when fed the wrong things, like too much fruit, fatty bugs and yes if fed those and kept in an enclosure that is too small. Grocery greens isn't as good as natural weeds, etc, but not really considered wrong, just not as good as natural grazing foods.
However, I do notice lots of things people plant for add items for their torts to graze on is the same stuff we buy at the store.
Sometimes we don't have a choice but to feed store food. It's really been hard for me to make him a good meal last few days. As I only have one tort, I tend not to buy too much greens because thing will go to trash. So he's getting lambs lettuce, endive, raddichio which is his new favorite :D and I'll buy some curly kale when I find it. Here one type of cabbage is sold as kale. Again, it was nice to discuss with you :).
 

chacha

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This is SO helpful. Thank you so much for all of the specific information!

My boy Ronan came to me extremely malnourished and emaciated. I asked his vet what could be done. He said, "Don't be afraid of winter squashes." He uses pumpkin, butternut and other winter squashes (cooked or raw) as a sort of emergency food for putting weight on underweight tortoises. Using that -- as a supplementary item, not as his primary diet -- and a feeding schedule that gave him constant access to food, Ronan's weight increased by 10% in less than 2 months. I would avoid giving him a lot of kale or carrots. That's what I bought on the day I brought Ronan home too! But after reading more about proper diet, I got rid of both.

If it helps, here's his feeding schedule:

When I get up, he gets a big breakfast -- picture a large-ish dessert plate piled up full. On nonsupplement days, I just tear the greens up a little, and add things he has to work on a bit like a radicchio core or a couple of thick spears of zucchini or chunks of butternut. If he's awake, I also hand feed him for a few minutes before work. On supplement days I chop it all up fine and include TNT, herbal hay and his D3, and a little soaked, crumbled Mazuri. I don't hand feed at those meals because I don't want him to gorge on one thing and not eat his breakfast. When I get home from work, I take the leftovers away, and hand feed him with whatever he wants, until he slows down. For that feeding I don't worry too much about balanced nutrition. It's just to get calories in. Then I pop him in the bath, and when he comes out I give him another plate, not quite as full as his breakfast plate. I leave that in overnight. He doesn't eat much of it, but it's available if he wants it. I'll also hand feed any time he approaches and asks for it. I just keep in mind what he's had so far and try to give him something different.

Another thing I did, though it was expensive, was bought anything and everything that was safe to include in his diet until I found out what he would and wouldn't eat. For the first month he was with me all I ate was his leftovers! It was really frustrating but it gave him a varied diet, and me an idea of what he'd eat and what he wouldn't eat, so I could give him as much variety as he'd tolerate.

Hope this is helpful!
 

chacha

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Thank you everyone who has contributed to this discussion. I got rid of the bleach and Cha Cha stopped freaking out in the tub so thank you for that advice! I have taken away the time limit (for now) just because she is underweight. When she is at a normal weight, I will put her on a feeding time limit again. She doesn't get to roam outside because I live in Washington where it is humid and raining constantly. Plus, I live in an apartment building in the city, so she can't roam unsupervised. With all those factors, I think it is best to do the time limit so she doesn't get over weight.

I've only been giving her D3 supplements and nothing else, so I'll get those vitamins you suggested. Kori, I have to do store fed for now, so your suggestions are helpful for me. Also, I don't chop up her food finely. Is there something dangerous in not doing that? Really thankful for this community!
 
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